There is also a phenomenon of guys who are complete losers who go for women who have their stuff together. Also seen in Knocked Up.

I won't ask where the good guys are...they are either hiding because of crappy ex-girlfriends or they are married to wonderful women. Damn.

I think a lot of the time the unnattractive dudes are the good guys, so I'm glad they're hitting on the hot chicks and taking a chance.

I hate the whole "out of your league" thing. So just b/c someone is prettier than another (which is a total opinion) makes them better than you? No way.

I don't like anything that makes some people feel more important, better, or worse than someone else. We are ALL equals.

THIS IS SO TRUE. It's extremely annoying, and almost offensive when a guy shoots 'way over his league'.

It is true that guys are often not as pretty as their mate because girls just ARE prettier creatures . However, successful guys are usually able to back up average looks with intelligence, wit, strength, ambition, other 'manly' qualities etc. etc. which still makes them rank pretty high on the overall desirability scale. What I do think is inappropriate though, is a guy who clearly ranks 'low' on all of these things and STILL thinks he can get a supermodel girlfriend. And when she's co-pursued by much more attractive men, STILL doesn't get the message.

What annoys me most about this is that the so-called 'unattractive' man, who should actually be able to understand more than anybody how much qualities besides beauty should matter too, still insists on extreme beauty when it comes to a potential mate! It's so hypocrite!
Why oh why can't they be a bit more realistic?? Get a life! As if as if as if!

Whew.

Wow, sounds like this is personal to you. How elitist and disgusting that you are so appalled by this (goes for you too, @austerity).

You can have all the guys in your league, and when you are unmarried and unhappy later in life....don't' come crying to anyone else.

aw, my boyfriend always tells me that when he first met me, he was terrified because he thought I was "way out of his league" He was like "I just didnt see how a girl as pretty as you would go for a guy like" But I felt the same ( that he was out of my league) But now that we have been together for a while, I think we a suited pretty well for eachother.

I think this is true. Not-so-gorgeous guys tend to go for the batting average. i.e. The more hits the better. It is because they believe what is there to lose? And you're right, Dearsugar, anything can happen.

Ahh, what austerity is saying reminds me of Shallow Hal...the complete losers going for the supermodels...

My now boyfriend admited to me a week into hooking up in the heat of a a drunken makeout session "i cant believe this..i thought you were out of my league" it was really flattering and cute and touching to hear him admit something like that...
some of my friends who i am no longer friends with asked me what i was doing with him becuase he "wasnt my type" whatever that means
i think hes cute and most importantly a good guy.

but theres something to say about those overweight hairy old ugly guys who yell at me every damn time i try to walk down the street asking for my number.
I wonder how they can be serious and think am i really their type? am i totally screwed up in my self image
this article proves they are just crazy!

Jmartens ~Well it's just my opinion, no need to lash out at me. I was expressing a general opinion, and you respond with a personal attack?? Pretty immature.

I am well aware that a lot more things make a man 'hot' than just his appearance (including my own guy, whom I went for because of a WHOLE package of great inner and outer qualities). I'm just saying that men who score low on ALL criteria of desirability or who are exceptional losers need not expect the most attractive girls on the planet! I think this is a pretty realistic thought that others would agree with...not sure why it would make me 'elitist' or 'disgusting'!

Please don't unleash personal attacks on someone who is expressing an opinion not even directed to you.

Don't worry, austerity. I agree with you.

I think this is actually a little bit ridiculous to point out. If someone sees a mate they are interested in, and have the balls to go after them, they do. They're not going to deprive themselves of a chance with a beautiful woman because they don't find themselves all that attractive.

It's silly to expect unattractive people to only pursue other unattractive people. If attractive people find them unattractive, so do other unattractive people

It's also worth noting that not all attractive people are shallow, and plenty of unattractive people have redeeming qualities not linked to appearance. Who says they don't have a chance with a "10"?

Its not about having an ego, and thinking ugly guys shouldnt hit on me... But I really do get upset when approached by guys or pestered when they are real bums (i.e no job, no prospects, no brain)... i dont go for traditionally hot guys so "league tables" dont bother me!

I just dont understand how a bloke would think someone who has their life together would want someone who sits around on benefits all day and leeches (by choice)...

btw, I have a bf, and I doubt any of you would think he's a catch, but to me he's the best! Its about the whole package

austerity ...I feel the same. I hate when swarmy guys hit on me...the creepy, creepy guy with zero personality in the shinny metalic shirts with pit stains..drunk as a skunk trying to be all smart and suave. Ewe.

As much as people don't like to admit it, looks matter, even if they aren't on the top of everyone's criteria list.

I don't have a problem with anyone hitting on anyone else if they want to, it really is a stupid idea sometimes though, lol. I mean really, do some of those guys even really think they have a chance? The real problem starts when a guy, ugly or handsome, won't take a hint after that first try. The worst ones are the guys who think they are the sexist man alive, and witty and funny, and suave and all around amazing (you know, the really ugly, old ones, usually hair popping out of the shirt with beer bellies), and no matter what you do they won't leave you alone!!! Even if you actually come out and say "I don't like you, leave me alone!" THEY KEEP TRYING!!! I swear cockroaches are smarter than that... 8-0

austerity: I agree that guys like that are hypocrites! They really should understand better than others how much other qualities matter, and yet they just go for the prettiest girl they see!!! Which I guess means they don't really have those other qualities we're talking about...haha.

austerity: Actually I agree with everything you said too, lol. It's just so annoying. :/

I agree with austerity to a certain point. My husband always thought I was "way out of his league" but that didn't stop him from trying! Despite all the 'no' answers that I gave him, he knew what he wanted and keep trying until he got me! And I don't regret it. I'm happy he did because he's the sweetest guy

And I thought I had heard it all...

sadly, apparently NOT.

I can't believe there are so many people who SERIOUSLY think like this.

I think I'd be too ashamed of myself if I'd agree with this to even say it out loud. (obviously that's not the case)
But then again, that's just me.

And probably some women who think like this are also the ones who later complain about how shallow men are.

God.

What's wrong with people???

Muirnea, I totally agree that it's that persistence after I feel I've made it clear that I'm not interested that bothers me. And it does tend to be the guys who are most deluded about their own desirablity. One time was really bad - I was at a diner, eating by myself, and this guy who had to have been about 60 just sits down at my table! He then proceeds to ignore my many polite requests that he find somewhere else to sit (and the place was nearly empty, so wtf?) and tells me his life story, interspersed with requests for my number (never got it, of course) and talking about how he wants a nice wife at home (whoa dude, slow. down. now.) Even more absurd - as soon as I paid my bill and made a swift exit, I saw him go up to another girl in her late teens/early 20's. I realize that prospects are limited at his advanced age, but you'd think that with age would come wisdom.

What I want to know is, Who is funding this research of the obvious? I don't need a group of psychologists to tell me that regular dudes like to hit on pretty girls.

What I do want to know is, Why do men always feel the need to assign rank and numbers ("bro, that girl is a total 10") to attractiveness? When am I going to get a logical explaination to that practice?

apothecary06, yup, that is definitely the worst!

Ewww, I'm so sorry for you! haha! I would have gotten so annoyed! I mean, how rude is that!? It's like guys think they can just disrespect you like that because you are only a silly girl or something. I probably would have gotten up myself and moved to another table or something! lol! Or eventually complained to the restaurant management and they could have done something about him. And if he still persisted, I totally might have punched him in the face. I've been wanting to try out my self defense skills I learned in class in the real world. lol lol lol.

I don't know about the whole "out of your league" thing, but I do know that guys who know they are completely incompatible will still give it a shot.

Case in point- I work with this guy who is nearly 19 years older than me. Nice guy, but he's the same age as my stepdad. Which I ended up dropping into a conversation at one point. I already turned him down a few months ago, but it's totally still there. And from my view, it's just not happening- friends yes, but that age difference is a major deal breaker.

I try to keep an open mind with most things because you never know what you may find. But there are some instances where year, it just isn't happening.

What is obvious from reading posts from people like austerity is that you are very young and inexperienced. Let me tell you how the world of dating/love works: Women in their early 20's have all the "power" over guys at the bars. The guys there are drunk and hoping to hook up (and most have not yet developed their sense of self (self-importance, self-confidence, etc...). An attractive 22 year old woman believes she has this sense of self due to the attention she has received because of her looks. Ten years later things have changed enormously. Those same dorky guys who were drunk at the bar, are now lawyers, doctors, entrepreneurs, and have fantastic personal lives that were built on self improvement (hey - you get shot down enough times at some lousy bar you begin to look inwards). Now those dorky guys are confident, professional and grounded - oh and 32 years old. That 22 year old cocky woman from the bar no longer has her looks, has never worked on her personality (didn't have to!), and is praying for attention and marriage (how things change - yes - women in their 30's want marriage and babies - NOW). That previously dorky guy now has the pick of the litter - and typically chooses to have sex with those worn out 32 year olds, and then marries a gentle, kind, smart, pretty woman who skipped the bar scene when she was in her early 20's to work on her career, schooling, etc...

How do I know this? I lived it.

CanadianGuy, how dare you patronize the women on this board as "very young and inexperienced". You're presenting your individual experience as the universal truth, yet completely discredit other people's experience.

The guys we're talking about here aren't the ones with too little self-importance, they're the ones with too much of it (yes, there is such a thing).

I personally don't like the "league" concept, but I've made the experience that the less a guy has going for him (career-, intelligence- and personality-wise, not just looks), the more brazen and cock-sure he is when pursuing women. Every woman who rejects him is a "shallow b*tch", because no woman in her right mind would reject such a catch.

A little less self-importance, a little more self-awareness please.

here here chocolatine

Haha someone has a chip on their shoulder.

Thank you people, I am glad some of you have understood my point at least
I second some people who have posted after me completely. And CanadianGuy, why do you assume that 'pretty' girls will all waste their time at the bar, not investing in their schooling and future? That itself is a horrible cliché. Good-looking girls can also walk the street, or in a mall or supermarket, and get hit on by creeps and face this problem. If you think of these girls so superficially, how can you criticize them for being 'superficial' about guys?

i think that it has to do with personal confidence and things like that rather than what you look like on the outside. guys probably figure that they can talk their way into anything since they are assuming that all women are into materialistic things and will go with them for free drinks/dinner/gifts. it's funny if you go to a bar and see this happen over and over again. sometimes i just enjoy people watching to see the guys make the effort and the girls react.

not to say that i'm a model since i know that i'm not - but there have been MANY occasions that i've wondered why guys would approach me - since they haven't been remotely attractive. but being the nice person that i am, i usually have a decent conversation at least...

CanadianGuy, let me tell you something. That is a stupid stereotype! How dare you act like all women are like that, or that you know anything about people posting here.

I am 20 and I don't even drink, much less go to bars. And I'm pretty, and yeah I'm confident about it, and guess what, it's definitely not because of receiving attention or compliments. I can believe I'm pretty without the help of a guy...I know, crazy huh!? A girl doing something without the help of a guy! Wow!...

And chocolatine was right too, we aren't talking about guys with little self confidence, we are talking about guys with to much! Thanks for proving our point.

"and is praying for attention and marriage (how things change-yes - women in their 30's want marriage and babies - NOW".) By the way, I don't EVER want children, and possibly not marriage. And I'm Atheist, so I don't pray, thank you very much.

sundaygreen:"Haha someone has a chip on their shoulder." Ditto.

Men watch too much TV. On TV all the women are hot and the men are usually balding, fat and obnoxious. Guys think that is normal and they really don't realize that no women desires a man like that.