I don't like teens having sex, I'll be honest, I think its too soon and something this serious requires maturity beyond what the average teen has.

That being said, EVERYTHING IN OUR SOCIETY PUSHES SEX!

So kids are going to do it anyway, we might as well teach them the safe way in addition to education which tries to counter all the "have sex NOW" stuff they get from movies, tv, celebs, music, clothes, and pretty much everything else in life.

Last ep of Eli Stone states alll of my opinions

In my opinion sex education needs to be comprehensive which means it should include abstinence and other forms of birth control. What bothers me about this particular curriculum sited in the topic is that it is clearly pushing an agenda where it says, just-say-no-way-until-marriage. A choice to practice abstinence should have nothing to do with marriage. It should simply be a choice unto its self.

Same criticism on the other side of the coin towards Planned Parenthood they should be talking about abstinence as much as they talk about condoms and without a biased tone towards groups who push abstinence.

They need to discuss STD's in a clinical manner without judgment towards any group is very important as well.

We need to do right by our youth and give them this information at face value without our added agenda's or judgments.

I think there is definitely a way to incorporate different sex ed options without pushing religious beliefs.
I think that schools should spend an equal amount of time discussing abstinence, but including issues that the religious groups tend to overlook, such as maturity levels and the feelings/emotional problems that come along with having sex. I also think they should spend an equal amount of time discussing safe sex options.
It seems as though there's a stigma of either virgin or slut when discussing these topics. There are good kids that have sex and there are bad kids that don't. I think we need to get the religious aspect out of public schools and start teaching kids that everything they see glorified on television/movies is not necessarily the best or worst thing they could do.

That is another good point caliope which I did not bring up. Please, I beg anyone who is a parent to look at studies that show how many sexual and violent images not to mention sexual and violent suggestion on radio and cd's that our children are exposed to on a daily basis.

Then we have the audacity to scratch our heads and wonder why girls are throwing their legs open at twelve and boys are sexually manipulating and womanising them with the expertise of a jigalo.

C'mon people!

By the time my graduating class got their diploma's, we had at least 8 girls who'd been pregnant at one point or another, and out of them, only 2 graduated.

We were taught abstinence only in our school, and frankly, it failed miserably.

I, thankfully, was taught better at home by my mother, but unfortunately my classmates weren't so lucky.

And, on more than one occasion, when I asked "So what, did the condom break or what?" the girls said "What condom?"

Most of these girls had no idea that birth control pills and condoms can and do work. They've been mislead by an educational system that refuses to acknowledge the fact that regardless of what high morals and ideals are taught to people, we are human beings with instincts, hormones, and a basic desire to have sex.

As far as I'm concerned, abstinence only education has no place in our schools and is damning our youth more than true sex education ever did.

Teen pregnancies are on the rise, and it's not hard to figure out why. When you are outright lying to teenagers and telling them condoms and birth control pills don't work, they're not going to use them at all!

Why not be honest with our kids? How hard is it to say:

"Abstinence is the only true way to prevent an STD or pregnancy. If you have sex, whether it be with a condom or pill, there is a chance for either of these things, so be willing to accept those consequences. HOWEVER, you still absolutely should use preventative measures like condoms and birth control pills to protect yourself in the event that you do have sex. Condoms are 98% effective in preventing unwanted pregnancies and STD's, and the pill is 99.7% effective in preventing pregnancy. While there is always a chance they may fail, the risk of an unwanted pregnancy is ALMOST eliminated by using these methods, and using a condom drastically reduces your chance of getting an STD. So please, protect yourselves! Also, if you are sexually active, make sure to have yourself STD tested every six months, and make sure that your partner has been recently tested as well. Don't just take their word on it, ask to see their results. You can never be too careful."

Seriously, is that so hard?

I agree with zeze. Kids are going to have sex. They need to be taught that abstaining is the best choice, but also how to protect themselves from an unplanned/unwanted pregnancy and STDs. It's pretty obvious that abstinence only education is not working.

I think Sex Ed is science.

I think that it is so important that our children get accurate, up to date information about disease control and prevention. The sex ed that my parents had when they were teens was completely out of date by the time that I was ready for sex ed.

I have known so many very neglectful parents, and sadly, I don't think that we can trust every parent to inform their children about the risks that come with natural urges. Even if we eliminate all sexual material from pop culture, you can't keep kids from the hormones that nature puts into their bodies.

There are many global studies that show the fewest abortions occur in areas where 1.) Birth control is readily available, 2.) sex education is factual and comprehensive, 3.) abortion is legal.

I think it is safe to say that Pro Choice or Pro Life, we ALL want fewer abortions, unwanted pregnancies, and STDs. I think that to prevent these and to protect the lives and health of our teens we NEED to have comprehensive sex ed. Teach the morality at home, but the science needs to be taught in schools!

"Same criticism on the other side of the coin towards Planned Parenthood they should be talking about abstinence as much as they talk about condoms."

I really love your posts, but I have to disagree with this. I know quite a bit about PP, and they DO talk about abstinence quite a bit. They are for female reproductive health, and that means making sure that you are mentally healthy enough for someone to enter your "cave of wonders".

Excellent points made by all. Our society is plagued by an embarrassingly high epidemic of unwanted teen pregnancies, STDs, abortions, and even miscarriages, due to misinformation, NO information, glamorization, and exploitation of sex as a weapon, status symbol, and manipulation. I am all for teaching abstinence, seeing how the "safe sex" movement has turned out. Self-respect, respect of others and reaching one's goals should be brought to the foreground of a school curriculum, backed of course, by parental guidance. Most radical(only in the beginning) changes will be successful when the parents and teachers are on the same page with the same agendas.

I had friends in high school that pledged to wait till marriage and whatnot - they were having unprotected oral and anal sex the whole time because they didn't think that was actually sex, and they were never taught that those are just as dangerous as unprotected vaginal sex. It's really a pity - abstinence of course should be taught as the safest option, but if we don't tell our kids to behave responsibly if they decide to experiment with sex, then we're just working against a progressive society in general. Just like how I believe education should be completely equal and free to all children, I believe it is objectively the best option for society - our schools are racially segregated and horribly unequal because of low property taxes in neighborhoods where black families have been routinely denied mortgage loans on the basis of race/class, which results in our children being punished for failing standardized tests and not learning non-cognitive skills, which results in more black males in prisons, kids turning to gangs, drugs, and crime in order to escape from poverty, which means the American taxpayer is paying for these prisons, rehab programs, and higher levels of security. Objectively, funding education equally means lower taxes, a better economy, and almost near racial/class equality in America.

Likewise, teaching abstinence and safer sex equally results in less teen parents, less STDs, and that helps the progression of American society as well as the blow that uninsured and poor teen parents lay on in the financial sense.

I'm always dumbfounded when teen pregnancy is dismissed as "kids being dumb" or the overwhelming amount of black men in prison and poor black women is "they're lazy/violent/immoral". Doesn't it seem like our structure needs to change so EVERYONE can benefit, regardless of race, class, or gender? Education is a key portion of society, but we have one of the worst educational systems in the world - I think if we changed how we treat education and the learning process then our children could have more opportunity to make a better future. They will end up being the ones who either suffer from what we've done, or change how we live in the end.

The thing that has to be addressed is STD’s. 1 out 4 women between 14 and 19 have an STD. This increases a woman’s chance of cervical cancer, as well as making it much more difficult for infected women to become pregnant when the time is “right”. There should be a national requirement for STD testing in every school in the nation, starting at age 13, annually at the beginning and end of the school year. Up to age 16, every child who tests positive should be interviewed and required to name their partners. If statutory rape is involved, prosecution would be mandated, if the partner is another child that child needs to be examined, and interviewed as to his contacts, this should continue till you get the adult transmitter. . Every unmarried person should be tested at least annually, and given a card with their picture on it, and include name, address and phone number, indicating their status as to an STD. Before engaging in sex, the partners should be required to show each other their current card. Lets face it if you are worried about your partner having your address and phone number, there is something wrong going on. Married couples and those 60+ would be tested every 3 years. For cards to be issued to a married person, you would need both partners’ signature, or the courts permission.

There is only sure one way to prevent STD's and pregnancy, and that is abstinence. Yes condoms have a 98% rate for those, and the pill is higher on preventing pregnancy, there is only one guaranteed way. I agree that the best way to help the children is to be involved, and many parents are woefully inept in this area. We need to help parents realize that even though they hated it when their parents "invaded their Privacy", there was a reason they did it, and they need to be parents to their children, and not their friend.

Sorry, I'll get off the soap box now.

My parents never preached abstinence to me. My mom taught me about actual intercourse when I was 5 because I asked. She was super honest about sex and how sex effects one's emotions and how it's probably best to wait until you can handle the emotional consequences of sex and the physical consequences as well. I also had sex education in public school starting in first grade (it was oddly enough Disney Educational Films with Jiminy Cricket) the films simply started out by saying there are physical differences between boys and girls bodies and then said that when we hit puberty our bodies would start to change into adult bodies. I remember thinking that we humans formed cocoons or something because of the way Jiminy said it.

Each year after that there was a new age specific Disney Ed film about what to expect. However in 2nd grade we girls and boys were separated for the films and sex ed class. We were allowed to ask any and all questions we had. So throughout my public school education I got sex ed every year - and the classes were always divided by gender. At no time during my education did they talk about abstinence or purity - instead they spoke about the physical and emotional consequences of having sex when your young and before you're ready. My school said the same thing in less detail than my mom did.

The result for me was I was abstained from any sort of sex from petting, oral to intercourse for the majority of my life until age 26 then I've been celibate thereafter.

My nephews (who are more like little brothers to me) went through the same school same I did and they were taught the abstinence program but still got the same info I got. Plus, my brother-in-law talked to them as much as he could before he died and after that since my dad wouldn't and my brother wouldn't and my sister was too clinical about it - I have talked to them about sex and the consequences of having sex before you are emotionally ready. But I have also given them both packs of condoms - especially the youngest one because he's a serial monogamous dater. And I am really surprised at 18 and 22 they're still virgins - every time I give them condoms they take them and then after six months or so they give them back to me and say "didn't need them". They know where to get condoms for free and what type they should use and how to use them properly. Both of my nephews don't want to deal with the emotional aspect of having sex and neither of them want to be a father at this age. So they just keep passing up on having sex. I don't expect this to last much longer but I know that they will use every protection they can because they know people with HIV and STDs - they've looked in my sister's medical books and seen what an STD can do to a person. They have friends who haven't been cautious and either have a kid, caught something or found themselves emotionally shattered because their relationship didn't work out they way they thought it would.

I think that schools can teach the hard facts about sex and reproduction but the parents need to put their shame or fear about sex aside and teach their children the truth about sex and reproduction and provide some guidance and advice about sex.

Oh the only people that I knew in high school who got pregnant or got an STD were the kids whose parents wouldn't let them take school sex ed or the kids who went to St Bonaventure Catholic School. I always found that to be so odd. Apparently their parents didn't tell them much if anything about sex at all at home. I heard the old excuse "I didn't know I could get pregnant the first time". Yeah, probably true that you didn't know and that is your parents fault and I hope they like being young grandparents.

Where the heck is that male birth control pill we hear about every once in a while??? We need to speed that though FDA testing!

Women can only conceive on maybe, MAYBE 2 days a month, but men can make a baby every single day! Yet we're the ones who have to take the pill??

Heck no! Its time to put more responsibility on men!

Cabaker, I think "players would love to have "the pill", then they have no worries about child support payments. Let the good times roll, would be their slogan.

That's because we men aren't smart enough to remember to take a pill daily... (or maybe we're too smart

Just a joke here.

I think they need to definitely evaluate the programs now that they've found these results and analyze them closely - is there any other explanation for the teen pregnancy rate that isn't explained by abstinence only in the schools? Are the schools that teach them in certain states, to certain income levels, what are the rates of abortion, etc.

And honestly, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I work with inner-city pregnant teens and teen mothers, and believe me they knew the ins and outs of safe sex. They PLANNED their pregnancies. Personally, my view is that sex ed is better as STD prevention.

Cabaker - I agree! What bothers me the most is that men seem to think that the woman should be responsible for birth control methods, even condoms.

One of the most infuriating conversations I ever had was with a friend of mine concerning who is responsible for sexual protection. We were discussing the fact that while women should be responsible for having the pill/shot/patch (and/or having a female condom if they choose), men should be responsible for condoms. He actually had the nerve to say, and I quote "I'm not the one who gets knocked up, I shouldn't have to worry about her."

While I, personally, can't imagine having sex with someone I wasn't in love with (and I don't think I could fall in love with someone that ignorant), I still prefer to carry condoms "just in case" and to pass out to my friends if need be. Because, hey, while their sexual well being isn't my responsibility, I'd rather sling them a condom than take them to the clinic for an abortion or watch them slowly die of AIDS. Though I think I'd chew someone's ass if one of my friends slept with someone without knowing their STD history.

Honestly, I know this may be somewhat sexist, but would you actually trust a man who says "i'm on the pill" when he wants it?

....ya, I wouldn't...I'd get a "oops, my bad" and a pregnancy!

Wackadoodle, I agree with you 100%.

My sex ed experience was pretty much the same.

I always say, what happens after they aren't teens anymore? Not everyone marries in their 20's, what happens then? People still get disease after their teens. You still have to deal with emotions after your teens and you can end up just as emotionally confused after that point and it's not a given you'll have people around to talk to or be more able to handle all of it.

This is why sex ed should be taught as a science as Jillness has said and parents should move beyond fear and shame of sex and learn how to discuss sexuality with their children. I don't understand why teaching sex ed is such a controversy, especially giving people a basic knowledge of contraceptives and human anatomy.

I've never once in my life seen a promotion of sex in a sex ed program, but the reality is at some point in your life you're going to become sexuality active and you'll need to know how your body works.

I stand corrected Jillness. I think I just didn't get my point across as well as I thought. I've known some people who work for Planned Parenthood and Kaiser Permanente doing outreach at Jr. High and H.S. Yes, they do talk about abstinence and I didn't mean to imply that they do not discuss it but that it is important for all sides to discuss these choices with out agenda and with out bias at face value.

I'm going to do three posts here - the first two to respond to things I've seen in all y'all's comments above and a third for my own thoughts. And may I just say it is WONDERFUL and AMAZING to find a place where we can have discussions about topics like this, with people who have strong views on each side, and have those opinions be well-presented, articulate and respectful? I've been looking for something like this for a long time - I'd gotten tired of the echo chambers and flame-fests I usually find! So, thank you for being part of a place where it's ok to disagree and people actually seem to be more interested in sharing and learning than in just bashing everyone over the head with their 2x4 platform log?

I making notes as I go down the list, so if I duplicate something someone else has said, please excuse me!

Quoting Jillness: I think it is safe to say that Pro Choice or Pro Life, we ALL want fewer abortions, unwanted pregnancies, and STDs. I just wanted to say thanks for mentioning this. I, personally consider abortion to be wrong, but I also know that I can only make that decision for myself. Any woman faced with the situation has to make a choice based on her own life, situation and beliefs, and she'll have to deal with any consequences that come from it, be they physical, mental, emotional or spiritual. I DO believe, however, that if a woman wants to choose abortion - and many will, no matter how much we don't want them to - I'd MUCH rather have it be done legally in a clean, medical setting with trained health-care professionals at hand rather than trying to find some "do-it-yourself" method or go back to the days of having to do them in secret and usually under highly unsanitary conditions.

And, back to the topic of sex ed, I would much, MUCH rather see people *know* their options in regards to preventing pregnancies and diseases than just be told only to "say no."

minaminamina - I, too, would love to see our education system be more egalitarian. I think it's a shame that while some schools flourish, others have to spend more time dealing with disrespectful, disruptive and illegal behaviour, reducing the amount of time they can teach each day, not to mention reducing the quality of what they do teach. I've never been a fan of bussing, just because in my own observations of it, it doesn't seem to work very well, but I do think there needs to be SOME kind of solution.

Grandpa - I don't have too much trouble with the idea of adding STD testing being part of a regular checkup - in fact, I've long thought that it should be just a part of the routine screenings people go through every year - and having school children tested and using the information to try and track down child predators has some merit. It will take some care, however, to ensure that people's rights are not violated - and, especially, that potentially false accusations don't end up ruining someone's life.

Unfortunately, for many people being accused is essentially the same as having been found guilty, when that isn't always the case. Sometimes kids are afraid of their abuser and will name an innocent person in order to avoid incurring the wrath of the person who IS harming them as well as to bring an end to what has to be rather uncomfortable questioning.

The idea of giving out, and requiring disclosure of, cards to adults, however, is something I don't think would work very well. Many people would likely take it as a "certification" that the person they're contemplating having sex with is, in fact, disease free. That could seriously backfire because if people assume a clean card means a clean person, they may not be as insistent that they use protection when having sex, and, given that over the course of a year, it's not hard to pick up and pass on any number of things, it could inadvertently result in either little change in the STD rate, or even an increase in it.

In addition, requiring the cards by force of law would be impractical. Who would be in charge of enforcing the card exchanges, and how could anyone verify if the cards had been exchanged or not? How much effort would have to be put into stopping card-forgery, which would likely become a pretty good illicit business, much as age-ID forgery is now? What would the consequence be to a person who doesn't show the card (aside from the presumable night of no nookie?) And none of this even starts getting into the civil rights implications.

I agree that STDs are a serious issue, but it seems to me that the solution isn't in more government regulation of our sex lives, but in teaching adults to be more responsible for their own behaviour. I mean, it's pretty obvious that there's a very serious problem in America with adults NOT taking responsiblity for their own choices and actions, but every time we just throw our hands up and rely on the government to enforce that responsibility, we just send the message that it's ok to be irresponsible because the government will take care of it for you.

Quoting UnDave35: I agree that the best way to help the children is to be involved, and many parents are woefully inept in this area. We need to help parents realize that even though they hated it when their parents "invaded their Privacy", there was a reason they did it, and they need to be parents to their children, and not their friend.

AAAAAA-MEN!

Not only do we have problem with adults refusing to be responsible for their own behaviour, we also have adults who think that they don't need to take any responsibility for teaching their children to take responsiblity for *their* actions (among other things they seem to fail teaching their kids.) WORSE, some are just 'too busy' to even pay attention to what their kids are doing, and then want to blame everyone else when something goes wrong.

There really needs to be a "responsibility revolution" in this country to hopefully snap everyone back into realizing that "oh hey! If I make a bad choice, bad things will likely happen, and gee, I guess I'm the one who has to deal with that!"

(Yeah, this is kind of a soapbox topic for me, too - )

Quoting wackdoodle: I also had sex education in public school starting in first grade (it was oddly enough Disney Educational Films with Jiminy Cricket) the films simply started out by saying there are physical differences between boys and girls bodies and then said that when we hit puberty our bodies would start to change into adult bodies. I remember thinking that we humans formed cocoons or something because of the way Jiminy said it.

I didn't get the Disney films at my shool, but the level of information I was taught was pretty much the same - though for me, that came in about my Junior year in High School. Unfortuanately, my parents *didn't* teach me anything except "wait until marriage", so when I went away to college at 17, that scrap of sex ed is all I had to go by. I'll get more into the ramifications of that in my next post.

Quoting annbreal - And honestly, I've said it before and I'll say it again - I work with inner-city pregnant teens and teen mothers, and believe me they knew the ins and outs of safe sex. They PLANNED their pregnancies.

I've heard some about this - one theory I've heard is that the girls do this in part because they think a child will give them the kind of unconditional love they probably haven't gotten at home - is that borne out at all in your experience? I think a lot of time these girls are kind of brushed off as just "lazy b*tches" who want to have a kid so they can get on welfare, but that strikes me not only as a perpetuation of the stereotype of "lazy blacks," which is offensive, but it also just doesn't make sense - "lazy" and "children" really don't go together very well. So I'm curious about what you've seen as to why these girls would *want* to get pregnant.

Quoting Matdredalia - Because, hey, while their sexual well being isn't my responsibility, I'd rather sling them a condom than take them to the clinic for an abortion or watch them slowly die of AIDS.

You sound like you're a good friend

lula29 - Excellent points!

My parents are a lot older than most - my dad was 31 when I was born and my mom was 42, and both are fairly conservative. Neither of them, apparently, were comfortable talking about sex with me (I'm an only child.) So they just told me not to have sex until I got married, and the only real "sex ed" I got was a 2 hour class my Junior year in high school (when I was 15) where we discussed that men and women have different body parts, something on a guy connects to something on the girl and 9 months later, there's a baby. I learned the terms "penis" and "vagina" but I didn't really comprehend them, and I knew nothing of STDs, pregnancy, protection, emotional issues involved with having sex or anything else like that.

I was 17 when I went off to college and a was a full year younger than most of my classmates. In my "Psychology of Sex" class (which I took hoping to understand the whole "sex thing" better) our teacher started the first day by passing around pornographic pictures from a hard core magazine. That was the first time I'd even SEEN a penis, and - given that this was porn, the guys were rather well-endowed (not that I knew that at the time) - all I could think what that I couldn't understand how people could find sex pleasurable since that, to me, looked like it would be EXTREMELY uncomfortable.

Because I was so incredibly ignorant, it was relatively easy for guys to try and take advantage of me. I managed to make it through the year with my virginity intact, but that was largely due only to the kindness of a male friend of mine, who took me and an equally naive friend aside one day and tried to help explain things to us a bit better. It wasn't much, but it was more than I'd even learned previously.

Still, the next year, when I was 18, because I was still so unaware of sexuality in general, I wound up in a date-rape situation that took a very heavy toll on me. I had always planned on saving my virginity for marriage because that's what I'd been taught God expected of me, and now, all of a sudden, it was gone, and I couldn't understand why He let that happen.

Honestly, I think if I'd had a better understanding of the nature of sexuality, of knowing how to tell when you're getting into a potentially dangerous situation, how to say "no" and make it stick and so forth, I might not only have been able to prevent what happened, but I might also have been better able to deal with the emotional aftermath.

Part of that aftermath was spending the next several years feeling like some part of me had been ripped away, and between the depression I've been fighting all my life and the emotional damage having lost my virginity in such a way, it seemed to me the only way to get it back would be to find someone who, when we had sex, made me feel "whole" again. Of course, it was a pretty pointless search, and I'm ashamed of my behaviour during those years, but I simply was not equipped in terms of knowledge or emotion to deal with it all. How I managed to avoid an unplanned pregnancy or STD is beyond me, but I got VERY lucky in that department.

My husband, on the other hand, had a VERY different experience. He wasn't taught that much differently in school, but when he was fairly young, his parents took him aside, pulled out an anatomy book, went over everything in there that he could understand, and told him that any time he had a question, he could ask them, and they NEVER made him feel the least bit uncomfortable about the kinds of questions he came up with (and believe me, some of the things he's told me he asked them, I'm not sure how they could have answered with out a lot of nervous laughter, but they taught him VERY well.) He, too, was taught that its best to wait for marriage, but they also taught him about the emotional ramifications, how to handle different situations - like telling a girl "no" and not letting her press him to change his mind, and so on.

He and I were friends for several years before we started dating, and during that time, I was always impressed at how self-assured he was when it came to his sexuality, and how he was able to stay committed to his values. He KNEW enough to be able to have that confidence and to realize that if you lost someone because you wouldn't have sex with them meant they weren't in the relationship for the right reasons.

When my husband and I started dating, he made it clear that he didn't want to have sex before marriage and I had no problems respecting that, especially given what I'd gone through. When we got married, he was still a virgin, and one of the greatest wedding gifts he gave me was when he said that as far as he was concerned, since I'd never really given myself emotionally to any of the guys I'd slept with, I was still a virgin, too - since our first night together would be the first time that, for me, sex was entwined with love. And you know what? I finally felt whole again - not because we had sex, but because of the way he loved me. I would never have found that the way I'd been going, you know?

The point of all this is that, in my experience, it is SO much better to actually be educated about sex and sexual relationships than to just be told "say no" and be given a bit of physiological info to go with it. If I'd had the education my husband had and the confidence that came with it, I'd be an entirely different person today than I am - and I have no doubt I'd be better for it. So I feel VERY strongly that kids need to have as much information about sex and sexuality as they can, because if you know WHY you want to say "no" it's easier to stand firm - and if you want to say "yes" you'll know how to try and minimize any damage that might occur.

After reading the nytimes article I think this is all a big waste of time. I won't even respond to the absitence only school programs which are just absurd, but to an individual who claims that absitinence is a feminist value. The Harvard student explains in the article, "Conventional feminism, she explained, teaches that control of your body means the freedom to have sex without consequences — sex like a man. “I am an unconventional feminist,” Fredell said, in the sense that she asserts control by choosing not to have sex — by telling men, no, absolutely not."

Too many Americans forget that sex is a good thing. I think that the american sex scene may be broken or in need of a big overhaul if women do feel pressured into having sex. But I dont think that telling women to say no is the solution.

Rather than telling a woman that her only say, her only role in sex is a simple yes or no, in the case of the Harvard club, no, I think women should be empowered to decide that to which they will say yes or no.

Maybe women feel pressured because men have gotten lazy about the rules of seduction. If men tried to seduce their partners into bed rather than coerce them, we'd all be happier!

MS - I have to disagree. Honestly I couldn't disagree more that "Americans forget sex is a good thing"... All the sex you see in movies, on TV, etc where they never make mention of condoms yet no one ever gets pregnant or an STD makes it look like you can very easily do it without a safety net.

I think what that woman meant by saying abstinenace is a feminist value is that very often we're presented with the idea that being slutty is empowering, when really, its destructive. And as women we've come so far now that we don't HAVE to do it if we don't want to, including with our husbands, whereas before it was a "womanly duty" or whatever. I think her point was that self-preservation is a conscious choice that can be just as empowering as treating sex like a man.

However, I agree with you that if you are abstaining because you think sex is dirty, then yes thats a problem.

I could not agree with you more Cabaker!

I also hate the fact that schools have to teach anything about sex or morality. It is sad that public school have to take on the role of a parent. It is a parents responsibility to inform their children about sexual education, not the public. It is just so disturbing to me that we have come to a point where parents do not raise their children anymore. Honestly I would not want schools teaching my child about abstinence OR birth control. I do not think they go into enough detail about either option.

cine_lover - You bring up a VERY good point. However, our children spend more of their waking hours at school than they do at home, for 13 years. And unfortunately in this world of households where both parents work, schools have taken on the parental role in a monumental way.

While I'm not condoning this, and I think it's pretty saddening, it is unfortunately where we are at in our society. The parents aren't going to do it in a lot of cases, and frankly, somebody has to.

Schools are, ultimately, the place you go to learn to be a person and a productive member of society alongside your standard education. So, unfortunately, they get saddled with the role of sex education.

Personally, I plan to do what my mother did (which is much like thorwitch's hubby's experience) -- whip out the anatomy books, explain the facts, explain that abstinence is a very good thing and can save you a lot of trouble and heartache, but if my child must have sex, then by god, they need to come to me so I can help them prepare. If they don't feel comfortable saying "Hey mom, I want to boff my boyfriend/girlfriend", I'd tell them they should at least go to someone they can trust so that they can get condoms, the BCP, or whatever else they may need.

A really, really diehard conservative friend of mine once told me I was going to be "a disgrace of a parent" because I told her that if my kid was going to have sex and came to me for help, I'd get them condoms, the pill, STD tested, etc.

Personally, I think the disgraceful parents are the ones who turn a blind eye to their kids and let them go out and get pregnant, or get an STD because they're too embarrassed to talk to their kid or to take responsibility.

Mat, I totally understand the necessity of sex ed in schools, I just think it is sad and disturbing that the necessity is there in the first place. And the more I think about it, the more I would not want my child to participate in sex ed at school. I can raise my own children.

cine I'm pretty sure you can sign a slip that says to take em out!

Really? I am totally going to be THAT parent.

I know it's been said before but I just wanted to add this in - while I agree cine that public schools shouldn't be the avenue but that parents should, I don't think that it is a real option today to eliminate sex ed programs.

I'm surprised at how different everyone's sex ed has been - I mean some started in 1st grade and then other's not until junior year!?! I had sex ed in 7th grade which I think I was 12 or so. It was very scientific like Jillness said it should be and I learned a lot of biology, anatomy and the dangers of unsafe sex. It was a pretty uncomfortable class and I have a vivid memory of my mother helping me study for it and her sharing WAY more information than I would have cared to known at that point.

I then attended a youth group service the same year about abstinence. That is where I heard from some 18 year olds about why they chose not to have sex until marriage and taught all the religious aspects of it along with health, etc.

Point being - I think if you want your child to learn abstinence education and you're not comfortable doing it yourself there are other outlets (besides school) where they can get that. And that's how it should be, in my opinion.

I learned most of my sex ed at school, and sadly through MTV's Sex in the 90s! Remember that series???

I have three older brothers. I taught my older friends what sex is.

Also, I just want to make it clear, I think sex ed should be taught in schools, just not to my kids

Cabaker, I did not have cable when I was a kid. I feel like I missed out on a lot!

I wish they would put that on DVD, I'd love to see it again! I bet I would laugh so hard at it, esp. cuz of the fashion...

My parents were way too lax with the MTV, thats pretty much all I watched growing up... but I used to like the music videos!

they actually used to play MUSIC on MTV, go figure!

I was not even allowed to watch 90210.

Whhaaaa????? Brandon is my boyfriend!

I didn't even WANT to watch 90210. I remember the day my dad bought a satellite the size of our huge back yard and we got the DISNEY CHANNEL! wooppeeee!

The only time I've seen a sex scene on TV where a condom is used is in the L Word and that was two weeks ago, but that was my first time. abstinence education is rubbish, teens pledge to remain virgins but when they meet a guy or a girl and "fall in love" that usually goes out the window. We all know the intensity of emotions when you are a teenager and you think you'll be together forever. children need to to be taught to protect themselves but then it's also a case of wanting to protect yourself because I know a lot of girls who don't use condoms because they are on the pill and to their knowledge are in a monogamous relationship, yet joshua is out there tapping a different ass every weekend brining cooties back home.

I had an ex who made me watch lots and lots of 90210. Grrrrr.....

On another note, during this whole sex-ed discussion, I'm amazed that no one has brought up castration as a way to keep kids from having sex. I think this would work wonders!

I think it is also important to note that condoms are not used in movies because people in movies don't get STDs or pregnant unless it is a part of the storyline.

I wanted Nick at Nite is what I wanted. I just thought all those shows looked cool.

Wow now that was some crazy writing I just did. Someone needs to reprimand me.

I wanted to write, I wanted Nick at Nite. I thought all those shows looked cool.

90210, Melros Place those progams weren't allowed, the only shows we watched with mimimum supervision were high Schools Quiz, Cartoons and our local dramas. Even now if there is a love scene on tV and my dad is there i either change the channel or get out of the room no matter how innocent it is and I'm 23 years old lol.

3M

nyara, there is nothing worse to me then watching a movie with my folks and having a sex scene come on the screen. I want to die every time!

My mom was really great about it all. She would bring out her huge medical text books, and my best friend and I would ask her any question that came to mind, nothing was off limits. I remember asking "When people have sex, they just roll around naked, right? Nothing actually goes in anything, right?" I didn't understand how that could possibly work! I feel that my mom really helped me have a healthy attitude towards sex.

The sad thing is that my friend, her parents didn't teach her anything about sex. Her dad was quite drunk most of the time, and her mom was overworked and belittled by him. Her mom had not graduated high school, and didn't have a driver's license. They never talked about that kind of thing. It is environments like these where questions like "Does the pull out method work?" go unanswered.

It is families like my friend's that I think of when I say I think sex ed should be taught in schools. I knew teens whose parents did drugs with them and neglected them in other ways, and I can't imagine that these people would offer accurate sex ed for them. Ultimately, understanding sex ed is understanding how your own body works. I don't see how we can keep this information from citizens, when we know that a failure to do so results in a rise in STDs, unwanted pregnancies, and risky sex practices.

And not only that, we are learning new information about HPV and HIV/AIDS all the time. Diseases change and evolve over time, and new ones pop up. I think it is very important for kids to get the most up to date information. They need to be able to tell an ingrown hair from a shanker!