I wonder why McCain doesn't do more to separate himself from Bush on the issues.

I think the fact that he hasn't been a "strictly party lines" Republican helped him a lot in getting the nomination this election, whereas this trait hindered him in previous elections. I actually respect that he isn't compromising his own beliefs or stance on issues simply based whether or not he happens to agree with a very unpopular president. I think that is a good indicator of integrity and honesty.

Off the top of my head, I believe McCain differs with Bush on environmental issues, campaign finance reform, and I think at the outset of the Iraq war he also voiced disapproval at the inadequate number of troops deployed. I'm 96% sure about those, but I'm falling asleep at my keyboard and don't feel like double-checking at the moment.

If they want to appeal to swing voters, they might have made a better choice than somebody who called conservatives "flag-sucking half wits."

I'm more of a Goldwater Republican myself, and not really a fan of Dubya, but in his defense at least his dismal approval ratings are higher than those of Congress.

Great, Bush vs Congress is like rabies vs gangrene.

Yeap, he's telling the truth. I think they're both the same in so many ways.

Liberty has been sifting through our conservative sugar group... this is the second exact post today from our blogs.

On the topic at hand, talk about spreading lies and propaganda... way to go Cusack! You are dead to me, as Cab said. How about some truth, facts, data, instead of your face cut at several angles behind colored backgrounds making sh!t up!

oh and I pity the fool who is "influenced" by John's propagandistic message.

Sy I was thinking the same thing! Conservative Sugar is on the cutting edge!

Hate Cusack all you want: it is inaccurate to say one word of that commercial spreads lies.

So I guess it would be equally as accurate to say that because Obama voted against banning partial birth abortions then he must hate babies?

Now, I'm not a huge Obama fan, but I would be willing to bet that he doesn't hate babies.

The same way that just by voting against that GI Bill, doesn't mean that McCain doesn't care about veterans or that he is equal to Bush.

It is inaccurate. and it IS propaganda, because he picks out great little phrases and bites that makes McCain out to be a monster, when in actuality when you look into these allegations (which we have done here in Citizen - like the G.I. Bill for example) it's completely taken OUT OF CONTEXT!

DOUBLE STANDARD!

John McCain only disagrees with Bush on spending, energy, climate change, and the management of the war...

... but yea, I'm sure they're the same.

this really makes me want to get a goofy looking actor who is famous for a bunch of sappy love movies - put him in front of a sheet or two hanging against the wall and have him say inaccurate and propagandistic things about Obama - comparing him to somebody we all love to hate - and see what the comments are then. It just astounds me that the same people who say focus on the issues, and say don't listen to things taken out of context are the ones who are on here this morning saying this is all true. I mean, really?

Opposed healthcare for uninsured children last year?

I find that funny because Obama voted against having unborn children be covered under State Children's Health Insurance program and McCain voted for it.

Sooo....

all in all, if we all want each other to focus on issues, not spread lies, and not take things out of context, then the least we can expect is that we would all extend the same courtesy to the other team's candidate.

Thank you.

I am done.

Off my soapbox.

I actually think they differ quite a lot, both as politicians and character. Sometimes these adds that try to educate or get people involved actually just does the opposite. I also react when people want you to vote against one candidate instead of voting for the candidate you feel represent you. I feel that I am more pro Obama than I am anti McCain. In my eyes this message is not encouraging brain cell action. It sort of tells you that if you hate Bush you should go to moveon.org so they can tell you what to think.

He didn't say anyone didn't care about the troops he said who voted to keep them in harm's way but voted against the new GI Bill to support them when they come home - you're spinning it negative, he never mentioned 'caring' about the troops.
He doesn't take little snippets of anything, he says whose top advisors are linked to war profiteers, who urged Americans to privatize social security, who opposed healthcare for uninsured children last year.
These are positions McCain has taken that are similar to President Bush - no more, no less. No snippets, no propaganda.
ABSOLUTELY NOT TAKEN OUT OF CONTEXT!

I look at this like I look at all commercials with actors. This is a script that someone made for him, he is merely the reader. If you want to raise money, use some of your Gross Pointe Blank earnings and donate yourself, but stay out of politics.

JOHN CUSACK and frickin move on dot org is spinning

spinning like a top.

meanwhile, across town in republican village, rush limbaugh, michelle malkin, and everyone else without ethics, are spreading completely false rumors that claim michelle obama is a racist and that obama went to a muslim grade school that taught him to be a terrorist. hmm. i guess we ARE in a presidential campaign season!

Are you seriously suggesting that moveon.org isn't in the business of spreading propaganda?

I mean, REALLY?!

I don't think that celebrities are helpful at all in campaigns. If you are trying sell perfume, they are worth it, but if you are trying to talk politics celebrities have a less than zero credibility.

Simple commercials like these work on simple people.

yy we are not michelle malkin as you are not ms. huff poo. So let's keep it in here.

I never mentioned move-on, I said he didn't tell any lies.
But don't act like virgins, there are plenty of conservative move-ons.

Oh I'm sure there are! I just haven't seen an ad for any yet and I'd be willing to bet my lunch money that there aren't any stars in them!

Sy, no need to smack people down - you are gifted at bringing up outside issues when it suits your purpose.
Malkin links show up here several times a week and no one goes off on rants about her.

i didn't say you were, syako. i was comparing the propaganda machines of both sides. it's politics. it will happen. if you don't believe it, tell your friends... but this tactic doesn't represent all obama supporters... just like malkin and limbaugh dont represent all mccain supporters.

Here here, yesteryear!

I don't have to take the challenge and I can tell them apart just fine. For one Sen. McCain is smart. Sure they have some commonalities towards issues but to suggest they're a carbon copy of each other is an out right lie and move on dot org can kiss my pattuty.

This is the kind of crap that we don't need in this election. The rampant amount of intellectual dishonesty on both sides to manipulate the voter is so outrageous. It is also why people are so disheartened with politics and don't bother going to the voting booth. If President Bush and Sen. McCain agree on some issues than illustrate those agreements don't sit there and tell me they're the same people. What am I a child?

"but this tactic doesn't represent all obama supporters... just like malkin and limbaugh dont represent all mccain supporters."

Agree!

You go, hypno!

Maybe its just me but I liked it better when the politicians did the politicking instead of just pushing their dirty work off to 527s.

I'm saying that of both sides. I'd rather just know who is connected to what and which is worse than have to sift through the BS.

Ok, whatever. (in reference to steph)

yy - My point was not that there's no propaganda on one side, but tons on the other. My point was (in comment #15) we are (as in the people on Citizen Sugar, and only the people on Citizen sugar) only going to have good debates if we don't sling stuff. I'm not saying my hands are clean or that others are more guilty, I'm trying to come to a reasonable understanding and agreement among ALL of us that we won't give weight to propaganda - from this point on since we can't go back and undo things that were said in the past.

And that we'll be decent.

And that we'll focus on more important things.

I hope that when a dirty ad comes from the right we get to see it and make fun of it too!

"The rampant amount of intellectual dishonesty on both sides to manipulate the voter is so outrageous."

I agree. There are vast amounts of garbage you have to sift through out there. What is truly scary is the number of people who just take what they are told as fact. I think since both sides bend and twist facts to suit their agenda, it only emboldens the other side to do it more. It is a vicious, harmful cycle of fear and retaliation and people who support both parties engage in it.

"The rampant amount of intellectual dishonesty on both sides to manipulate the voter is so outrageous. It is also why people are so disheartened with politics and don't bother going to the voting booth."

So true hyno!

holy crap I'm so sorry for my typo! HYPNO HYPNO.... ugh

So let's not do it here on Citizen, k?

Is that too much to ask?

syako, i see what you're saying. but just by the very virtue that we all seem to be spending a majority of our waking hours sitting here debating the issues, i am fully confident that the people here are capable of making critical assessments of propaganda pieces like this one, and others. i agree that it's good to debate the issues and "keep it clean", but when citizen sugar reports on videos like this one (from both sides) we are being asked to share our thoughts about the message AND the vehicle.

in the times we are living in the media sometimes becomes the message -- it's important to also discuss these types of issues because there are plenty of people around the country who are just absorbing them rather than analyzing them for what they are.

" I'm trying to come to a reasonable understanding and agreement among ALL of us that we won't give weight to propaganda"

It is a team effort folks, a Purple Team effort!

What is itching me is that Howard Dean is saying exactly the same things on prime time TV. Just as overly simplified as John Cusack, and a little arrogant too. A lot of independent voters are sensitive to this type of presentation and argument. If it were to be really convincing they should go thoroughly into a subject so there were no adding and subtraction from the candidates' records or policies.

* and by sensitive I mean they are likely to be turned off by it.

Hey everyone! Syako, great minds must think alike!

In honor of Sy:

Citizen asked - do you think Johns message can influence swing voters... probably and it can swing them either way. It just depends on where they are in their thought process now and how much they like John Cusack.

Citizen also asked - With president Bush's low approval ratings at an all time low, will voters be able to form an opinion about John McCain? ... yes, they can do that now with or without the ad, and most already have.

Then Citizen asked - I wonder why McCain doesn't do more to separate himself from Bush on the issues... he has, just some people don't want to see it. They already believe what they believe and they're happy with that.

Well stratgey wise, this is the best year for Dems to be able to run a clean campaign, simply because the odds are REALLY in their favor. So I guess if there were any year to give it a whirl, this would be the one. I agree tres that these tactics (on both sides) alienate a lot of undecided voters.

BTW, I heard last night that Vegas odds are Obama over McCain 2:1... place your bets!

I do think there are areas where Bush and McCain have agreed. I don't think bringing that up is slanderous. But I do think it is important to be specific and factual when discussing these things. Exaggeration does more harm than good.

Good points sy, Jillness, yesteryear.