I completely respect people who choose to not get married and choose instead to live together... sometimes forever!

But at the same time, there's something about that piece of paper that changes things. It drives me kinda nuts when I hear people say "well we're practically married anyway" Yea, maybe PRACTICALLY, but not ACTUALLY. And it does change things, hopefully in a good way but not always.

At the very least people need to think of their legal rights should they break up or there be a serious accident.

Marriage doesn't prevent him from leaving it just makes it a little harder. I think it sucks being a single parent and that you should try to be married before you have children. If he is not willing to step up and make a lifetime commitment to you, how can you be 100% sure he would the same for your child?

The article was all over-generalisations. I know plenty of divorced families that challenge the "the seriousness of the legal bond between the parents" theory.

Most mothers go all day, husband or not - and caring for your child IS NOT drudgery though some days are easier than others. I'm a single mom and I can think of more times when I felt relief that I didn't have to argue a childcare decision than times I felt I really needed someone else to weigh in.

Honestly from reading the piece, I found myself wondering if Harrop wrote it to diss the neighbor woman - and if she's got a thing for the boyfriend.

I think her point is the legal bond. The father of the child knows who his legally married parents are, and he will legally inherit when his parents pass. I think the father of the baby owes the child the right to his name. The grandparents recognise this child, and I hope they provide for the baby.

"do you think society should worry about the rising number of births out of wedlock?"

Yes. Studies have shown that children of two married parents do better socially and educationally.

" A neighbor in her 30s, a very fine woman, recently had a child with her boyfriend. They live together.

The boyfriend's mother and father enjoy being grandparents. The boyfriend gets to have a son, as well as live-in female companionship. How eager he was to be a father, I don't know, but he clearly doesn't want to be the mother's husband. He's keeping his options open."
Wow- get's her point across. Wow. I am speechless.

I see what she's saying, but at the same time, generalizing helps no one. Sometimes it's better to be raised by two parents; in some situations it isn't. I have seen people get married just because they happen to accidentally get pregnant and, more times than not, it hasn't worked out. Several times I've seen people get married and have one or two more children and eventually divorce. Having a child is not in and of itself a good reason to get married.

How does this author know that the boyfriend is "keeping his options open." Maybe the woman doesn't want to get married. Maybe neither of them wants to get married. What a judgmental witch.

Lilkimbo, that line intrigued me. If she knows so much about the neighbor's lives, they know who she is as well, so was this column a message for someone?

"Studies have shown that children of two married parents do better socially and educationally."

Married parents or partnered parents? It seems to me that as long as the parents live together and are committed to the relationship (think Susan Sarandon and Tim Robbins) the children would do just as well as if the parents were married.

I wouldn’t have wanted to have children with someone I wasn’t married to, but in the long run I think it’s the parental commitment that counts, not so much the marriage.

I just want the children they make have a legal leg to stand on in the event the parents die. Mean while the parents are still checking each other out...selfish.

If I was this woman's neighbor I would be LIVID. What crawled up her a**?

This column is an opinion piece. Every situation (as far as the well-being of the parties involved) is different and up for individual interpretation. I'm simply shocked that she could make such insinuations about her neighbor and "friend" - nobody knows until they're living it.

"Married parents or partnered parents?"

IMO - married is better than just partnered. Partnered doesn't really show a long term commitment, just we're together for now. Getting a divorce is way to easy, but it's even easier to just pick up and leave, without any legal ramifications.

I think it definitely depends on the situation, but you kinda gotta wonder what the kid is gonna think five years from now. Isn't it comforting to know your parents have a legal document saying they're going to stay together forever? Not that it means much anymore. I dunno, I'd find it weird if my parents weren't married, but maybe that's just because they are :-/

My momma always said, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free" That neighbor is getting the milk and every other benefits of that cow with out every signing the contract. It's kind of weird that people do this. But I do agree, she doesn't know the situation and it may be that the women is the one that doesnt want to get married. In my own personal experience, that is not usually the case though.
I do find it funny the way some people are reacting to this and the way they react to gay marriage issues, kind of seems contradictory.

Every time I pass this story, I have an urge to get that baby a t-shirt. My office is cold.

Increasingly, I am seeing women who don't want to get married and men who do, or couples in which neither partner wants to get married. So, I guess it's just an issue of what you (general you) see. I feel it's sexist and old-fashioned to assume that it's the woman who wants to get married and the man who doesn't.

I honestly feel that, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" is such a silly, sexist, overused phrase. If we are going to say that, why not say, "Why buy the pig when all you want is a little sausage?" It infuriates me that people refer to marriage as the buying of a woman, even if it is in a joking manner.

I also don't see how it's weird at all to not get married if you aren't ready. Do we know that these people planned to have this child? Maybe they are making sure it will work before making a commitment. (Some people still view marriage as a one-time thing.) Maybe they accidentally had this child together and are trying to make a committed relationship work, but don't want to make the situation worse by putting the added pressure of a marriage on their shoulders.

I find it funny the way some people are reacting to this and the way they react to abortion issues, kind of seems contradictory.

I don't see the contradiction with gay marriage, though.

"Getting a divorce is way to easy, but it's even easier to just pick up and leave, without any legal ramifications." Once you have a child, it is not so easy to legally walk away. You don't have to be married to be obligated to support your child. You are that child's parent whether or not you were ever married to the father/mother. And what if they own a home together? Both names on the mortgage and deed, these are all legally binding contracts that you can't just walk away from. I think that the notion that parents must be married to properly care for their children is archaic.

I wasn't speaking of your reaction lil.

Good to know, but I still don't see the contradiction.

AMEN, lilkimbo!!!

I don't think she should have aborted the baby.
I just think that the way the woman wrote that phrase got here point across. and i did say that she doesn't know the whole story, but people write books ALL the time not taking the whole story into account. It is done on the news and by pundits EVERY day. She is not different just because this is an issue some people may be sensitive about. She has a right to look at anyones situation and write a book on it. There is an epidemic seeing as 40% of kids are born out of wedlock, she is just putting her spin on why. I just think values have been flushed away. that is my view, and no not every situation is like that. I am also not a prude, I lived with my husband before we got married also. But I would damn sure never have a baby in that situation. Now again I know it may have been a mistake, but maybe this lady knows her neighbors and knows that it wasn't a mistake, and a lot of commentors on here are making sweeping generalizations that not all situations are like that when there are a lot

Sure it matters if you're surrounded by people in your life that are constantly telling you it matters suggestig that some how you're experience is substandard to theirs.

On the other hand if you're left alone to enjoy the love and nurturing of the people around you regardless of who's married or not as long as that good love is there you'll do just fine.

Marriage is a chosen condition love for a child is a constant so as long as both parents are healthy participants and the have a loving network of family I don't see a problem with it.

The hypocrisy lies in the people that automatically paint all anti-gay-marriage folks with the same brush. When it is no different then this women painting all unwed mothers with the same brush

"Why buy the pig when all you want is a little sausage?" - I'm totally going to start using this.

I'm for the pig/sausage thing too. I only used that phrase because it is what this woman was saying.

Well, I wouldn't agree with anyone writing or speaking authoritatively about a situation he or she doesn't really know about. So, "everyone does it" is not a good argument for why this woman should do it. And, just as she has the right to write about her neighbor, I have the right to criticize what she's saying. No one is suggesting that she doesn't have that right; that would be silly. And it's not a generalization to say not all situations are like that. A generalization specifically tries to paint all situations as the same, so saying all situations are different is the exact opposite of a generalization.

And I don't really see the article as her putting her spin on why these children are born out of wedlock. To me, she's not saying why, she's just saying it's wrong.

And, obviously all pro-lifers would prefer that women bring their babies to term, but to then judge single mothers seems incongruous. I would think one thing all sides of the abortion debate could agree on is that we should make life easier for women who have babies in difficult situations, not more difficult.

Sure, I don't know what I said that is arguing with you. But I also think we need to encourage women to actually be in stable relationships (to me that means marriage) before conceiving. To not cover that part is as disadvantageous as it is to ignore b/c over abstinence.

Hainan, it's just a general comment, not about you specifically.

Although, judging women who have babies out of wedlock in the way the author does sure doesn't make life easier for them.

Hey I'm all for stable marriages Hainan57 but we also have to understand that marriage and stable relationships are not synonymous. Sometimes the more stable relationship is not to be married.

I guess you all won't get until a Probate judge puts you out on the streets...marriage is a small price to pay. In some states a dog licence is cheaper.

"But I also think we need to encourage women to actually be in stable relationships (to me that means marriage) before conceiving. To not cover that part is as disadvantageous as it is to ignore b/c over abstinence."

What do you suggest when a woman conceives outside of a stable relationship? BC is not fool-proof, and abstinence seems fairly unrealistic for a good portion of the population.

I do agree that being in a stable relationship is important. I've yet to see one person provide good reason (other than his or her own opinion) as to why that means marriage.

Marriage does not automatically mean stable relationship. A stable relationship comes from mutual respect, compromise, and trust, to name a few things. These things are not automatic just because you are married.

"Born out of wedlock" - I didn't even know that phrase was still used.

Marriage isn't for everyone. Some people are pretty good together being married, others struggle, and the rest... well, they shouldn't even have considered it in the first place.

Anyway, reproduction is a serious thing. You're responsible for another person's life for at least 18 years, so best scenario is having a stable relationship. It doesn't matter whether you add a piece of paper to it, telling you you're wife and husband.

Though, seriously, when we look at the classic from of marriage: mom stays at home, takes care of the house and the kids, while dad goes to office and makes the money. In the evening he comes home, kisses his kids good night and think he's an awesome father while mom actually is a single mom. *shrug*

Also, don't get me started on marriages that are marriages because she had a bun in the oven. *rolls eyes*

Anyway, in the end it comes down to the kid(s) and what's best for them, and not what society think ot their parents's relationship status. A married couple can screw up as much as an unmarried copule, or a single parent. Or, do great... A piece of paper won't change that.

"I feel it's sexist and old-fashioned to assume that it's the woman who wants to get married and the man who doesn't.

I honestly feel that, "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" is such a silly, sexist, overused phrase. If we are going to say that, why not say, "Why buy the pig when all you want is a little sausage?""

Yes. Yes, yes, yes, yes. I say this allll the time. I was just asked not three hours ago when Manfriend was going to "make an honest woman" out of me. I smiled politely (it was a client) and said, "Well, we own a home and pets together, and we have joint checking. How much more married do you want us to be?" But it's humiliating for people to assume I'm waiting with baited breath for a proposal when I'm the one who's more skeeved out by marriage.

Because, haus, it pretty much is practically the same. We are absolutely as committed (if not moreso) than any husband and wife, and at this point we're as (if not more) legally and financially tied together as any married couple. We own a home together, we only have one checking and one savings account for our household, we are each other's beneficiaries for life insurance and our 401ks, we have joint credit cards, joint homeowners and auto insurance, a jointly owned vehicle, a joint car loan, a joint cell phone plan, probably hundreds of possesions aquired jointly in the years we have lived together, we have adopted two pets together, and a we have a detailed living-together agreement.

Seriously, other than having children together, how much more married/civilly unioned can we be?

"Marriage does not automatically mean stable relationship. A stable relationship comes from mutual respect, compromise, and trust, to name a few things. These things are not automatic just because you are married."

Seriously! Nothing about a white dress and a legal contract make you more commited to each other.

I agree with Steph, lil, and TS.

"Marriage does not automatically mean stable relationship. A stable relationship comes from mutual respect, compromise, and trust, to name a few things. These things are not automatic just because you are married."

Roar!

I mean, if the couple in the article are having issues or something, whatever, but the impression I'm getting is that the author is assuming something is wrong because they're not married.

I'm assuming the author is doing the boyfriend and wants to engine a split.

engineer a split

Someone needs to teach me how to make emoticons!

Ok so the author thinks marriages are important in child rearing, you don't. No need to beat a dead horse. Moving on.

dm, go to:
http://teamsugar.com/group/82779/blog/258833

there's a whole list and how to do them.

Thank you, steph!

Whoa, you're quick

Doesn't it seem weird that so many liberals (in general, not pointing fingers) are soooo keen on gays marrying, but don't want to get married themselves? On the one hand they're saying it's a civil right and so important, and on the other that it's just a piece of paper.

Seems strange.