In an odd, having-your-cake-and-eating-it-too sort of parallel of stories, illegal immigration has hit the city of San Francisco in a confusing way. The city is both actively advertising for illegal immigrants, and under audit for taking millions of dollars of federal money to combat border crimes.
The problem with the dough? San Francisco is 500 miles from any border, and beat out all four states bordering Mexico for banking the most cash. The city has received $5.4 million since 2004 to help secure their "border," and the federal audit found that found the city was not entitled to any of the funds.
What's a great story to balance this? How about the $83,000 ad campaign launched last week trumpeting the city's amnesty status and inviting all to come on aboard? To see the details of their "Got Immigrants?" campaign, read more.
The ad campaign just launched shows images of smiling residents and the iconic city skyline and spreads the message in English, Spanish, Chinese, Vietnamese and Russian.
Partially prompted by a series of federal immigration raids, the ads aim to promise safe access to city services for the undocumented and a look-the-other-way policy when it comes to residency status. Mayor Gavin Newsom said of the campaign, "We are standing up to say to all of our residents: We don't care what your status is. We care that you, as a human being, are a resident of our city and we want you to participate in the life of our city."
Of course not all illegal immigrants commit crimes, but advertising a hands-off policy while pulling in all kinds of government loot to prosecute immigration crimes? The city can't explain it either, issuing no answer as to why a city 500 miles from a border would have prosecuted more than 2,000 cases for the federal government that were related to drug gangs and crimes near the border in a three-year period, and they've been silent on the money too.
Should a city be allowed to herald its amnesty status? Do you think it's an admirable and humane example to follow? What about all that money — do you think the two are related?
Maine New England
Intereeeeesing. This is one those dude WTF moments.
1Looks like San Francisco has a lot of explaining to do.
I say if the people of San Francisco, want all the illegal immigrants, then they can take them. But don't accept federal funds to provide services. This is the CITY that wants this, not the country, and if they choose to do such a thing then they must provide for the people.
Have fun San Francisco!
2Oh and I do not think it is admirable or humane, and I do not think that other states or cities should follow this example.
3Honestly that's not really very safe. It's nice in theory that they want to welcome the downtrodden masses, but not all of them are just suffering misfortune. Some could be there to take advantage of the system, and that's a security issue. Looking the other way is the LAST thing we need them to do!
4Kris, don't you realize that for the people of the bay area, our countries security and well being comes in last? Their first focus of attention is to their need to LOOK morally superior to the rest of the country?
5Heh. What's funny is that most of the people I know of who "abuse the system" were born here and are, uh, y'know, American citizens. My best friend's family came to America without papers (all fixed now) but they've always been good, honest hard workers and had way too much pride to abuse the system. Just pointing that out.
6I'm pretty sure America's problems with immigrants is just as bad as certain other countries but damn no other country complains about it like America. Sometimes an illegal immigrant is bigger than a terrorist it seems. Anyway illegal immigration won't stop, not anytime soon no matter what measures are put in, it just seems that the more money nations spend on combating illegal immigration the more illegal aliens that squeeze in through the cracks. As long as we have the third world this won't change.
7right Em! I was referring to people with evil intentions, not the hard working honest types. again, I make broad generalizations and expect everyone to read my mind.
sorry!
Cine, what are you trying to start with the Bay Area?
8No one has said that illegal immigrants are not hard working people, but they are in fact ILLIGEGAL, and have broken the law. There are people on lists waiting to come into this country. Just because a person lives in closer proximity to the USA, does not give them any more right to come into the USA.
My family came in Legally, so can others.
Also, by allowing open boarders and sanctuary cities, you are allowing less then desirable people to come into this country. Not everyone who comes here are looking for the American dream, but some come with the intention to destroy it.
9Ha Ha! I lived in the Bay area for years. It actually made me MORE Conservative.
10that would be what I was referring to. What Cine said about the ones who want to destroy things and hurt people.
11cine thats just the problem not everyone can do it legally. To come over to Canada I had to pay my full year's tuition, prove I had adequate funding for pocket money, prove my dad had enough money in his bank account, go for extremely extremely expensive medical tests that I then had to pay for myself to be sent to another country for the testing process, travel to the capital city where the only embassy is 2 to 3 times a week and this in a country where fuel is as precious as diamonds therefore transport is a killer and I had to buy a return ticket befre I even had the visa to prove I had adequate travel arrangements. My parents are nowhere near rich and at the time my dad had been paying for my granny to stay in hospital for four months and her medication which was another huge expense now try to imagine those who have nothing but who want to leave to make it a better place for themselves and their families. it's not always black and white but I guess until we've walked a mile in an illegal immigrants shoes we can't say much.
12Cine I think its funny because my family came here legally too... So whenever I say that I'm first generation American people expect me to fall all over myself trying to get amnesty for all illegals... NOPE, sorry! If my family coming from a war torn country far worse off than Mexico can do it legally, than so can everyone else!
But thats a separate issue... What makes me angry about this story on San Fran is that they are blatantly saying that they won't cooperate with ICE, which is breaking federal law. Maybe someone should throw Newsom in the clink... So not only are illegal immigrants breaking the law to come here, they are being told its ok to break the laws by the city of San Fran... So if immigration laws are ok to break, then aren't all laws ok to break? Is it really smart to tell people that in America you can break whatever law you want and there will be no consequences? Exactly what kind of people will that attract?
Meanwhile, I love the attention this is getting and I hope San Fran gets exactly what they want!
13nyara, I do not think it is easy. But I also do not think because it is difficult that we should open our borders. We spend billions of tax payers dollars on illegal immigrants each year. This is money that should be going to our citizens, not illegal immigrants.
Also, many of the illegal immigrants here, are hard workers, but send their money back to the country of origin. So not only are they not paying taxes, but they are not helping the US economy either. This is a problem.
It is easier to think with your heart then your head sometimes, but the fact remains that we can not sustain the amount of illegal immigrants, it is not fair to others who want to immigrate here, it is not safe, and it is not fair to the US citizens.
14Cabaker, do you know what the law is if an immigrant wants to join the armed forces? If they join do they become a citizen?
15I don't know maybe if I was an american i would also be anti illegal immigrants and amnesty but since I come from a place where many people are now illegal immigrants I feel for them. Funny thing is where I am it is the legal immigrants and the citizens who are committing the crimes especially identity theft and money scams, illegals are far too afraid of being caught to do anything other than stay in their homes.
16I am the second generation born here, my mother was concieved in norway but born in brooklyn, the rest of my family is still in norway, they all came legally and assimilated into society but still retain the love of thier culture and history.
its pretty black and white for me , here illegally go away, here legal stay and play.
17Cine - I believe you can join as an illegal and then apply for citizenship, but you have to have come here as a minor with your parents and have graduated from a US high school... I do know of a guy in my husband's unit who just took the citizenship oath a few weeks ago, but has been in for a while, so I don't know if they fast track you...
There was a bill call the DREAM Act, part of which was that if you were illegal you could join the military (if you met the requirements) and they would fast track your citizenship after your commitment was done, but I don't think it got passed.
18I definitely agree. My husband came here legally and millions of other international students do the same thing. It's not like it's impossible to get here legally
19Cine - More info... from the DoD
"Today, about 35,000 non-citizens serve in the military, and about 8,000 permanent resident aliens enlist every year, said Marine Maj. Stuart Upton, a Pentagon spokesman.
The 2006 National Defense Authorization Act established uniform citizenship or residency requirements for enlisting in the military. President Bush's executive order allowing non-citizens to apply for citizenship after only one day of active-duty military service remains in effect, Upton said."
20cabaker, that was a quick answer.
21I see it says "non-citizens" but does not refer to their specific status. I wonder if they are legal (green card) residents, or something else....
One of my grandfathers jumped ship to come to America. Once he got here he joined the Army to obtain his citizenship, but this was of course a while ago, so I was not sure if the laws had changed.
22There's a big difference in immigration these days: A lot of the newer waves want to live here, but not integrate into society. They expect communications from the school to be bi- or multi-ligual. We spend boatloads of money on specialized education measures for non-English speakers. Legally, illegals cannot get public benefits money, but their anchor babies can.
Newsom needs to realize he is only a mayor. He keeps trying to take more authority than his position warrants. I'd love to see the feds find some reason to prosecute him. If we could contain all their madness within the city limits, it would be one thing, but it's bound to spill over into the surrounding areas.
One issue I don't see mentioned enough: illegals, because of their "fringe" status, are easily victimized. By encouraging this behavior, we are setting up a fresh batch of potential victims.
Oh, and the problem with the law enforcement grant--as I recall hearing it--is that they could not / would not document how it was spent. IME, that sort of reporting is normally a part of any government grant.
23Resident aliens are green card residents aren't they?
24"My family came in Legally, so can others."
A lot of people who *do* come here legally do so thanks to stuff like educational programs (like international students) and often have the luxury of, uhhh, money. I don't want to offend anyone, but until you've been faced with the possibility of abject poverty versus a better chance for yourself and your family in another country, it's not that easy to come here legally to make a better life for yourself. Just saying.
Also, I think it's pretty fair to say that a lot of "illegal immigrants" (I prefer undocumented, but to each his own) do jobs that American's don't want to do. I'm not saying that makes it better/that all immigrants should be granted access to America, but in some ways it's true and that's another thing the government needs to take into consideration and examine.
Also, Kris--totally understand
I hear you! No apologies needed!!
25That's not true em. My husband came here from a former soviet country where the AVERAGE income is less than $200 a month.
26well you brought up an important point em. many of those undocumented immigrants make up a significant part of our workforce, such as service industry jobs and infrastructure, like building highways and other construction. They do things many Americans would not want to do, like you said. It would be interesting to find information about their role in our economy, and how it would be different without them. I'm not excusing their being here illegally, but it is an interesting topic.
27em, I hear the argument that they do jobs that no one else wants to do all the time, but I do not find that to be true. I think it is more that people do not want to do a job and be under paid for their services. There is a difference.
And my family came over with pretty much not a dime in their pocket, just wanted to be clear on that.
Also, I do not blame or fault the people who come over here illegally. Why wouldn't they when they can work, have anchor babies, and receive benefits? I blame the employers who hire them. I blame sanctuary cities. Without work, and without public services what would be the purpose of them coming to the USA?
28excuse me, not a significant part of our workforce in terms of overal percentage (that I know of) but significant in terms of the role they play.
29I might be talking straight out of my butt so ya'll help me.
30My parents also came here with no possesions, since they had to leave all of their possesions in order to escape communism. They also didn't have much money because, well, communism... In fact, they weren't even allowed to pick which country they could go to (United States or Canada) they were just handed one based on whoever had a space to take them....
So while I feel for people who want to come here and make a better life, I don't feel for their audactity and sense of entitlement to break the laws to come here.
31"So while I feel for people who want to come here and make a better life, I don't feel for their audactity and sense of entitlement to break the laws to come here."
-I love it!
32"So while I feel for people who want to come here and make a better life, I don't feel for their audactity and sense of entitlement to break the laws to come here."
-I love it!
33We're only advertising to the wealthy illegal immigrants. You guys are so judgmental.
34My statement is to address the statements that many make that illegals do jobs that most do not. I believe this to be partially true; however, there are a lot of companies that want to only hire illegals because they pay them less than fair wages and do not give them health insurance. These companies usually work their employees 6-7 days a week without vacation or time off. If time is needed off, employees are threaten to be fired. These illegals or undocumented, whatever you would like to call them work, they work hard because it is money. I have seen and talked to several people, since I volunteer teaching English and reading skills to those who lack or have little to none - and there are companies that will not hire Americans. Moreso, there are companies that fire Americans if they do not go along with the work schedules that illegals/non-documented workers are willing to work. This is just something else that people should be aware of.
35"We're only advertising to the wealthy illegal immigrants. You guys are so judgmental."
Hee!
Also--"Also, I do not blame or fault the people who come over here illegally. Why wouldn't they when they can work, have anchor babies, and receive benefits? I blame the employers who hire them. I blame sanctuary cities. Without work, and without public services what would be the purpose of them coming to the USA?"
YES. I agree 100%! This is who should get the brunt of the criticism.
Also, I wasn't suggesting that everyone who comes here legally has tons of money--just saying that certain people who do have different channels that are better supported (like with school programs). That's what I meant.
36Oh my oh this is a tangled web. Well first of all the mistake started with the Feds sending the money if it indeed turns out to be a mistake. I say this because San Francisco is not near our N. or S. boarder but it is a major port of entry especially for Chinese immigrants. So maybe this is a consideration being overlooked. The fact that S.F. also recieved more money than boarder cities is also a head scratcher.
As the article indicates the federal funds where allocated for the investigation and prosecution of illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. The article also goes on to say that San Francisco has been prosecuting illeglas for said reasons.
As for San Francisco's safe haven status it is a long standing tradition here and not so unlike New York, Los Angeles etc. who have the same policies. San Francisco also happens to have a policy of putting their money where their mouth is. I would like to see evidence that the money used for the ads came directly from the federal funds in question because that is what the article is loosely suggesting. Which in my opinion is just as irresponsible as the charge if it’s true?
37cabaker27 just wanted to point out that there is a major difference in the way the U.S. treats economic refugees and political refugees. Your parents were what we term political refugees. On another front same reason we don't send Cubans who make it over back to Cuba. We make them citizens.
38"San Francisco also happens to have a policy of putting their money where their mouth is"
What happens when San Francisco runs out of money? What will happen to these people then? Or to the American Citizens? They will become a State issue and not just a city issue. And then when the State of Californian can't sustain them anymore they move on to the next state. And then people will want the federal government to help, more of our tax dollars going out the door because of San Francisco. The city cannot sustain the amount of people they want to "help". California is already in a state of economic distress, how is bringing in more people to rely on public services and work jobs but not pay taxes going to help the economy? How are the illegal immigrants that come into the city and brake the law, in turn going to jail and costing the tax payers money, helping?
It is a selfish act, and they should be held accountable for their actions.
All sanctuary cities are in the wrong, not just San Francisco, but at least they are not advertising their open doors.
p.s. Don't read this as aggressive as it comes off, because I don't mean it to.
39All the more reason for the Federal government to put a plan that works on the table cine_lover. San Francisco is doing what is right for them and what the majority of the citizenry there agrees with, which is their responsibility and right to do. The Feds need to do what is right for the nation and humane to all sides. If they had the balls to do so than San Francisco and others would not be in a position to take on the burden of offering it self as a haven.
As for the ad I personally don't think it will make a difference either way because trust these people know which cities offer safe haven. They don't need some formal ad to let them know.
40For everyone--here and elsewhere--who expresses sympathy for poor, disenfranchised citizens of other countries: I'm sorry, but how is that *my* problem? Why is the US expected to be the safety valve for the whole world? We already send a lot of foreign aid to many parts of the world.
For those who say "they're doing jobs Americans won't do": It's because they're working outside the law. Employers don't want to pay a fair wage, so they hire these "invisible" people. This is just one of the ways illegals are taken advantage of.
It's really very simple. If I can hire an illegal--not "undocumented"--worker for $4 per hour, with no benefits (or taxes, probably), why would I hire a low-skilled American for minimum wage (plus payroll taxes)? Who does that hurt? The most vulnerable of our citizens. Now how is that fair and humanitarian?
41Gotta disagree Hypnotic... No matter how many people in San Fran believe its right for them or their city, they are still breaking federal law. And it is their right and responsibility to respect the laws of the United States.
42Regarding the grant part of the story, it would not be unusual for grant funds to be disbursed on the basis of an initial report, to facilitate payment. Then, when the report is audited and the details supporting the claim are sketchy or incomplete, repayment may be requested.
A postscript to my previous comment: I'm always in favor of fixing the problem instead of treating the symptoms. If the Mexican economy, for instance, is a mess due to corruption (as I have heard), then deal with the corruption. Don't just export the problem. That's what we're letting them do, now. It is not the best solution to the problem, and does nothing for the long-term situation.
43Yes, they need to do what the citizens of the city want, but maybe they should think what is best for society, not just trying to look like they are pillars of morality or trying to give the perception that they are the forefront of anti establishment.
44Lain I totally agree with you about treating the problem. Only the problem with that is that the illegal immigrants that are here are sending thier money home almost in its entirety... like Cine said. A big part of the Mexican economy is the money thats sent home from illegal immigrants to the states.
So there's not a good chance Mexico is going to work with us to cut off their gravy train.
45I know I'm getting in the discussion late....
This is total crap. The government of SF should be thrown in jail for stealing our money, and using to threaten our security. This another prime example of how a small group of people who have decided they know better than the rest of us, and feel they don't need follow the same rules as the rest of us.
46Lainetm, it is our problem because they are here and that is a fact that can not be ignored. The U.S. government has created its own crisis in this area by it's own imigration policies and for them to turn on S.F. for taking humane actions towards an issue with very inhumane consiquences which the U.S. has had a hand in creating is wrong.
cabaker27, S.F. is doing what is humane to do under the circumstances. If S.F. is breaking federal law than they are not alone and the feds. know that if they prosecute S.F. officails they will have to prosecute public officials all over the country.
47What gets me is that the U.S. was perfectly content to use these people for all their worth and look the other way because it was good for the economy. One thing we forgot to take into consideration is that immigrants produce offspring as well. It is these offspring that is at issue when it comes to safe haven cities. San Francisco does not want to take part in creating thousands of orphans which would have a much bigger impact on the so called well fair system. Any way you look at it the U.S. government not S.F. has created its own catch 22 in this matter.
48I fail to see how being a sanctuary city, is helping the situation. How about instead of being part of the problem be part of the solution?
49I'm confused. How has the US created this immigration problem (besides not enforcing the borders)?
Lainetm, how do we make a changes to a corrupt gov't, like Mexico? We could send the military, overthrow the gov't, set up a democracy, and help it to get established and teach all the parties involved how to work together...
Oh wait, we're doing that in Iraq, and many Americans hate it.
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