Rick Warren To Give Inaugural Invocation

Rick Warren To Give Inaugural Invocation — Righteous Choice?

December 18, 2008

Prominent evangelical Pastor Rick Warren will deliver the traditional blessing at Barack Obama's Inauguration. While selecting Rev. Jeremiah Wright would have created many more waves of outrage, the choice of Rev. Rick Warren has caused some ripples of disappointment among Obama's more liberal supporters.

Rev. Warren, who hosted a non-debate between Obama and McCain at his Saddleback Church, publicly supported California's successful gay marriage ban Proposition 8. But he's also tried to widen the social conservative agenda to include causes like global poverty, human rights, and HIV/AIDS.

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Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

"If you get married by a church, then so be it. But everyone would have to go to the court to make it a legal civil union. All of the same rights would be granted to anyone regardless, male female etc."I do think that's a good compromise, Hainan.

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

StolzeMama 4 years 22 weeks

I can see both sides of the argument. I've had many arguments with my parents about gay rights. They will even go so far as to say that gays are trying to make their marriage worthless. And I do argue to them that their marriage is in the eyes of God, nothing can change that. And like I said I even voted No on 8. But I never really saw the fuss to begin with. See previous post why I think that the amount of money spent fighting prop 8 could have been better spent. And if it was just going to be fought in court, I don't understand why people tried so hard to not have it pass. And it really irks me when people try to play to the "oh prop 8 took away my rights" when really it didn't DOMA did. And until that is changes, all of this other stuff, in my eyes, is not accomplishing anything except dividing the sides.

StolzeMama 4 years 22 weeks

I can respect your opinion Jude. I get really frustrated when people try to make it seem as if so much was removed from gays by the passage of prop 8 when in reality, as the supreme court of ca states, there isn't. I think many people are highly uneducated about what prop 8 truly did. Including myself. I must admit that I never knew there was no way to dissolve a civil union. I have said this in a previous thread. The only way to calm both sides is to take the word marriage out of political definition completely. If you get married by a church, then so be it. But everyone would have to go to the court to make it a legal civil union. All of the same rights would be granted to anyone regardless, male female etc... If it isn't called marriage, then the traditional definition of marriage would not be changed. I really think that if the GLBT community took this approach, it would be much less volatile a topic.

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

Yes, Hainan, you are correct in that gay marriages aren't recognized in all 50 states; only straight marriages are. What you fail to see is that the point of attempting to legalize gay marriage--and not just in one state, but across all 50 of them--is not an attempt to legitimize "gay" marriage as some kind of separate-not-quite-equal institution, akin to the civil unions you're so keen on, but an attempt to legitimize gay marriage as just marriage, plain and simple. Equal to straight marriage, not just in wording but in fact. No, defeating Prop 8 can't accomplish that, since to accomplish that would involve the federal government, but it would be one large step in the right direction. Especially if states adhere to the Full Faith and Credit Clause of the US Constitution. I don't believe states' rights should include the right to continue to perpetuate blatant discrimination in the law. But I'm certainly not going to leave the country because of that--I'm just going to continue hoping and working towards progress in this country that will eliminate such discrimination. Anyway, there isn't much else to say on Prop 8 until March, so my last comment on this (probably) is that I hate DOMA, and was extremely angry at Clinton's involvement in its passing.

StolzeMama 4 years 22 weeks

Whoever said the non-debate was a joke is just upset because McCain stomped Obama in that kind of a forum.

StolzeMama 4 years 22 weeks

And when I say they have the same rights in California that is taken specifically from the words of CA state supreme court justice when reviewing whether or not the first prop against gay marriage was valid. In the supreme courts of CA's eyes civil unions are equal to gay marriages.

StolzeMama 4 years 22 weeks

And I meant if you do not like that the states have the right to make decisions not specifically implied in the constitution, then go to somewhere that is not a union of states. And again please read about DOMA before you try to say that "Marriages are recognized in all 50 states, and granting gay couples the right to marry would give them the same marriage rights as straight couples" 1. No state (or other political subdivision within the United States) need treat a relationship between persons of the same sex as a marriage, even if the relationship is considered a marriage in another state. 2. The Federal Government may not treat same-sex relationships as marriages for any purpose, even if concluded or recognized by one of the states.

StolzeMama 4 years 22 weeks

Jude - you obviously have never read DOMA

UnDave35 4 years 22 weeks

"States have the RIGHT to make laws not specifically stated in the constitution" That's a very good point. So if a state wants to grant the same "liberties" to gay civil unions that are afforded to traditional marriages, they can. I think that is what is being lost in all this. The states have the right to decide, and if your state decides to go against it, you have the option of moving to a state that is more "liberal".

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

"Don't like it, go to a country that is not a United STATES!!!!!! That is how we are, that is how this country was made." Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought this country is what it is because instead of people up and leaving when they don't like something, people work to change it. You know...like sticking it out through the Revolutionary War and fighting for independence instead of moving to another country. But that's just my understanding.

True Song 4 years 22 weeks

Sweet.

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

Oh, you're right. You've convinced me!

True Song 4 years 22 weeks

YES it DOES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

You forgot about the exclamation points. It has to be an inverse ratio. Yelling something that isn't true won't make it any more true.

True Song 4 years 22 weeks

I'd be curious to see a study of the ratio of capital letters to the truthfulness of one's statements. "Civil Unions are the same as Marriage." "No they're not" "OMG YES THEY ARE AND EVEN THOUGH THEY'RE NOT WHATEVER MOVE TO ANOTHER COUNTRY IF YOU HATE AMERICA SO MUCH!!!!!!!!"

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

Marriages are recognized in all 50 states, and granting gay couples the right to marry would give them the same marriage rights as straight couples. What part of that do you not understand?

StolzeMama 4 years 22 weeks

I was just saying that in California whether we have gay marriage or gay civil unions, IT MAKES NO DIFFERENCE TO THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT. States have the RIGHT to make laws not specifically stated in the constitution. Don't like it, go to a country that is not a United STATES!!!!!! That is how we are, that is how this country was made. I actually voted no on 8 because I really personally don't give a rat's ass. But stop trying to act like all people who voted yes on 8 are idiots and polluting their mind with arguments that don't hold water. EVEN IF WE HAVE GAY MARRIAGE IN CA THEY STILL WOULDN"T HAVE THE SAME RIGHTS. Why don't you focus your attention on that huh? Oh because that doesn't get media attention!!!!!!!!!!

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

:ponder:

True Song 4 years 22 weeks

I love the "well they should just put that all in their will or power of attorney or something." If only there were one piece of paper that could do it all, like some kind of license...

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

Oh, I adore the "I'm so adamant about not wanting gay people to have these rights that I'm willing to take them away from EVERYONE" argument.

True Song 4 years 22 weeks

Agreed, Jude. I can see both sides on a lot of issues, but I have never heard anyone give an argument against gay marriage that wasn't just bonkers. Bonkers!

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

"you want to eliminate 1,000 federal rights? You want to do away with the right to take sick time to care for a spouse? You want to take away the joint filing of taxes? If I marry a foreigner, you don't think he should be allowed to become a U.S. citizen? And you'd be okay with your marriage popping in and out of existence as you cross state lines?" Yeah, it's funny that that "solution" actually succeeds in doing the one thing gay marriage opponents have never been able to prove gay marriage would do: take rights away from heterosexual married couples.

Jude C 4 years 22 weeks

Hainan's "solutions" mostly involve the federal and state governments and individual couples having to jump through a lot of unnecessary hoops just because someone refuses to give marriage equality to gay people, even though doing so would hurt no one else.

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