A delegation of about a dozen House Democrats from Florida and Michigan met for just under an hour last night on Capitol Hill to discuss ways of getting their delegates seated at the Democratic National Convention. At stake, the hotly contested issue of the stripping of Michigan and Florida of their delegates by the Democratic National Committee. The states were punished by the party for moving their primaries ahead of the Feb. 5 primaries. Though both candidates agreed not to campaign in the states after the ruling, Hillary Clinton won both handily.
DNC Chairman Howard Dean said of the controversy, "The Democratic Nominee will be determined in accordance with party rules, and out of respect for the presidential campaigns and the states that did not violate party rules, we are not going to change the rules in the middle of the game."
Now, with the delegate race as close as it is, and 300 delegates at stake between the states, not to mention the issue of voter disenfranchisement, should the states get to hold their primaries again?
What do you think? Is a do-over changing the rules, or righting a wrong?
The Body Shop
what is it with florida, why do they always get a recount?
1I'm not exactly sure how I feel abut this as it is a really messed up situation.
It is the Democratic Party of Florida's own fault for setting up their primary date when they did, when they were aware of the consequences.
On the flip side, the Florida voters should not loose their voice because of the choice of a few.
While I feel their votes should be counted, I'm not sure if it should be a new vote or if the old votes should be counted......
2Yeah the Dems here were pretty pissed about. [FL] The dems in my Gov't class were very outspoken about it. I would be angry too.
3i wouldn't mind if they re-voted now, but they definitely should not be counted as-is from when they did vote. obama wasn't even on the ballot in michigan.
4the Michigan and Florida votes should count, remember how crucial Florida was in 2000
5Yes. I would love to be able to vote seriously (from Michigan).
6As someone from Michigan, I can say that I'm very upset that my vote won't count. It's not my fault that the party leaders messed up. It wouldn't be fair to send the delegates without redoing the vote because the other candidates weren't on the ballot, but I think a redo would be fair. Michigan and Flordia are always seen as big states in the general. Our voices should be heard.
7Although I think that it would be fair to send Flordia now, since all the candidates were on the ballot.
8I think the only option is to do a re-vote. They couldn't campaign in those states, Obama wasn't on the ballot in Michigan, and Hillary would have the name recognition lead if they weren't allowed to campaign.
I don't think the DNC should have to pay for the re-vote. It was the decision of the state's party, and as mellowman said, they knew the consequences.
It doesn't really matter, in the long run though. Florida will go to Hillary and Michigan will go to Obama and he will still have the delegate lead at the end of the day.
9Princess, you really think it was fair, considering they weren't allowed to campaign in the state and one candidate has a 12 year history with the state? Not to be mean, but I have a hard time understanding how anyone could think that would be called fair. Florida is a HUGE state, land wise. Large land masses make it very challenging for unknown candidates to get the word out.
10I was unaware of this. Although I understand wanting to follow the rules, it isn't the fault of the voters and we all deserve to be heard. I don't know the details and would like some more links and info as this sounds not only interesting but possibly crucial for a proper Dem nominee. I don't want to lose a Hillary nom because Florida was not counted correctly. Yes, Michigan counts as well! =) But it was Florida (and Ohio a bit, if I recall) that was wonky when Gore ran.
11Well, then re-do both. I don't really care. As long as my vote is heard.
12"As long as my vote is heard."
I completely support this!
Now that we have so many more people involved in the
political system, we need to keep them there.
13If it HAS to be done, then a re-vote is the only FAIR way. Those first votes should be discounted ABSOLUTELY.
14I agree, doing stuff like this isn't going to encourage people to get involved. A lot of people in this country don't feel like it matters whether they vote or not. Stuff like this just make that sentiment stronger.
15I say a re-do, because voters in both states knew their votes weren't going to be counted; so the result is not a democratic result, because I highly doubt many people I know would go to the ballots if they knew it wouldn't count. And the fact that Senator Clinton didn't remove her name was an obvious way of harvesting votes and support, both from Michigan and Florida. Furthermore she continues to add those states to her record of wins, last time in her victory speech on Tuesday, which is certainly a not so subtle way of influencing the voters in the respective states, if there were to be a new election.
16As Howard Dean stated the states can figure out a new plan to choose their delegates and submit it. Not a big deal. If the states would get to work on that instead of holding press conferences complaining-- I'm sure it would be accomplished in time.
17I'm not affiliated with any party so I couldn't vote in the Florida primary anyway, but this whole thing REALLY disgusted me.
There was no precedent for what would happen, so I don't think the Florida Democratic party really knew that their votes would be completely thrown out for the date being moved forward.
Also it should be noted that the decision to move the date forward was a decision made by the state, which is predominantly Republican. It's not fair to say Florida democrat voters "deserved" to be treated like this by their own party. It was a travesty all around.
From what I could tell, none of the Dem primary candidates really protested this... except for Hilary. And she only did it when it became pretty clear that she would get the votes.
I just say leave things the way they are because the DNC can go to hell... but maybe I'm just bitter.
18Sadly, I think politics are going to drag this out against the voters best interest. Now the state party leaders are saying that the state has to pay for it. The state says they can't pay for it, because they are strapped for cash. I think whichever entity decided to hold the election early should be the one to pay for the re-do.
19I think I have gone mad because lately Howard Dean has been looking a little hot to me. Has this happened to anyone else? I think I need to ween myself of the Situation Room, because I'm loving Wolf a little too much too. What is wrong with me???
20Nah, tresjolie--that beard is definitely alluring...
21Why did they move up their primary if they knew this was a potential consequence?
22i agree that if those states want to redo it, it should be at their own expense, since they are the ones who decided to hold their elections early. i kinda feel like the timing of this fiasco is a little convenient, with hillary not doing as well as some probably predicted in the beginning and the state going to hillary. they voted over a month ago. why are they just NOW fussing over this?
it's not fair to a lot of people involved, and i'm not sure it will be fair either way...
23hey tresjolie....when I saw Howard Dean, I was like "man, he's looking better than ever!" haha. he does look good. weird.
I don't believe that if there was a redo that Hillary would walk away with most of the delegates. If she manages to win in Florida, no doubt it would be because of the Hispanic vote, and I won't be by a huge margin. Michigan is another story. I think it'll be split, if Barack doesn't win.
24as a disenfranchised Florida voter i think i re-do there is just as valid as a michigan re-do.
though all names were on the ballot everyone knew their vote wouldn't count. and while tons of people did go out and vote anyway there are many who didn't bother.
i live in part-time in DC but i'm registered in FL, but when i didn't receive my absentee ballot on time i didn't fuss about it because it was only a beauty contest anyway. had i known our delegates would be seated there's no way i would've been so nonchalant about it.
25I am in the same predicament as M3 on this issue.
26And tresjolie, you have spent way too much time in the Situation Room! Get out, girl, now! Wolf is about as sexy as a...nope, I really can't finish that analogy. lol
I think they should definitely both re-vote! For pretty much the same reasons everybody has already mentioned!
27So, the DNC can't pay for another re-vote so, this means that the votes don't count. You break the rules, you suffer the consequences. Sorry, Hil. Gotta find some other alternative, girl. There's no way these votes will be counted without a re-vote.
28No, they had their chance to participate. They choose to disregard the rules to try to achieve glory. And now they must pay the consequences. With decisions or indecision comes consequences.
29as a democratic michigan voter i was really pissed that my vote wouldn't count. i didn't even vote, which i know is lame but i totally forgot about it because i knew it wouldn't count. us voters were screwed by the michigan democratic committee. while i understand where they were coming from when they decided to move the primary up, i didn't support it and frankly, i think our right to vote was unfairly taken away. most of us did not support the earlier caucus when we were informed of what the consequences would be. i totally think michigan and florida should be allowed to re-vote.
30A) The states need to eat the cost of a re-vote.
B) Howard Dean IS A SEXY BEAST! He just has so much confidence in his voice....
31"A) The states need to eat the cost of a re-vote"
Absolutely, if they want their votes to matter when it comes to the nomination.
"B) Howard Dean IS A SEXY BEAST! He just has so much confidence in his voice...."
32i'm conflicted. yes, they did the break the rules, but their voters should have their say. isn't that the whole point of a democracy?
33He is kind of beast like!
I know Wolf isn't sexy in theory; small, little man that is old. But he is just so un-biased.. it is hard to resist his devotion to facts. I have a problem, I agree. I should start up a Wolf Lover Anonymous with Problems. The WLAP will meet every Wednesday starting this week, and there will be snacks and beverages available. Should I count you in Citizen?
Anyone else thinks this looks like Wolf? Maybe I have a thing for Santa, I just don't know it. Ew, I just grossed myself out. WLAP me!
34Howard Dean is a SEXY BEAST. ROTFLMAO!
35Can I make that in to a bumper sticker?
Oh my sister pointed out that strangely Howard Dean looks like a slightly younger version of John McCain.
Weird. Dopplegangers.
36And John McCain looks like Steve Martin.
37
38hey baby... wanna ride in my Mercedes!! HAHAHHHHAAA
39sophia, how did you do that??? I didn't know that was possible, with the picture and all! And yeah, there my guy! What a cheesy picture! Love. it.
40Step 1. Find a picture of a hot old dude
Step 2. Right click and select "Copy Image Location"
Step 3. Paste the image location in between these here brackets...
You'll want to leave the quotes in too and remove any spaces between the image loc and quotes.
Step 4. Just copy the whole thing into a comment and hit post.
41Booo! My brackets did not come through because it seems like I am trying to post an image ...
ok. Bracket 1. (![]()%3Cbr%20/%3E%20Bracket%202.%20()
)
Of course you will not use the parentheses.
42/Users/evangardner/Desktop/art.wolf2006.cnn.jpg
like this
43obviously not!
44Is is different with Mac's compared to PC's? I got an Apple laptop, but can't find that choice.
45I'm on a mac, I always use photobucket.
Get a photobucket account (www.photobucket.com) upload the pic you like to the account, then under the picture there will be html code that you can use to show the pic.
There may be a simpler way, but that is what I do.....
46thanks 3M! I'll try that.
47Actually it wasn't the Democratic Party of Florida that chose to hold the early primary. They had a choice to hold a caucus at a later date (other than the general election going on for two important pieces of legislation and the Republican primary) but did not do that for either financial reasons or not being sure how to throw together a caucus with such little preparation. The bi-partisan lawmakers that decided to hold the election at that time didn't give two sh*ts about the Florida Democrats or if their delegates would be counted.
48OMG PHOTOBUCKET IS AWESOME!!!
49The one choice I think is absolutely out of line is just taking the votes as they are. As I have read on this site and others, the voters didn't think the elections would count, so vast numbers didn't vote at all.
All of the candidates pledged their word that they would obey the rules, and I think that Hillary leaving her name on the Michigan ballot is another example of rule breaking. I would like to learn more about this, because I have read several places that they (all Dem nominees) pledged to take their names off. Breaking a pledge is a big deal, so I am surprised it hasn't been discussed more.
Also, I just heard on Keith Oberman (MSN) that the truth behind the Canadian NAFTA snafu is that it was actually HILLARY's people who made the double talk promises. Canadian officals made a statement late today, so we should hear more about this tomorrow. How could the media get it THAT wrong?
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