Using polling data as its foundation, Rasmussen Reports argues that as Barack Obama and John McCain debate immigration, the media misses the issues Americans care about.
Current conventional media wisdom holds that since Obama and McCain both support a path to citizenship, voters won't worry about immigration this Fall. But, Rasmussen argues that the real debate begins with the details of the path. According to polling, most Americans want a sustainable plan that meets the basic goal of reducing illegal immigration in the future. In addition, Americans overwhelmingly want immigrants to embrace American culture and language.
Last Saturday, Obama and McCain spoke about immigration in front of the National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials. To find out what they said, and for more on the candidates' immigration records, read more.
McCain addressed his immigration record, which includes a Senate bill he authored but later rejected. He said: "Many Americans, with good cause, did not believe us when we said we would secure our borders, and so we failed in our efforts. We must prove to them that we can and will secure our borders first." McCain also touted plans for lower taxes, which would benefit Latino small businesses.
Obama also spoke about securing the borders, but said: "If we think that a wall is the sole solution to the problem, then we're not thinking it through." In the Senate, Obama has proposed a system to help employers check eligibility, legislation that would ensure immigration fees are reasonable as well as improve the accuracy and speed of FBI background checks. Obama has also introduced amendments that support keeping immigrant families together.
Do you want to hear more from the candidates regarding how they plan on putting immigrants on the path to citizenship? What sort of plan would you like to see?
Vertbaudet
Both the candidates *and* the media are actually missing the point.
There are a *lot* of Americans that would like to see all current illegal immigrants deported and the interpretation of the 14th Amendment revised.
The reason immigration reform keeps failing in Congress is that they keep proposing thinly veiled amnesty proposals, and the people flood their offices with letters, faxes and telephone calls.
I'm stunned that Obama doesn't see that illegal immigration hurts his primary constituency the most: low-skilled African Americans. Who does he think is the first to lose their jobs when there's a readily available pool of labor willing to work "under the table" for low wages and no benefits?
1I don't know if they should all be deported, but as I said before, and will say again, they better like HELL have to pay the thousands of dollars my family had to pay for the insipid INS forms and interviews and WAIT the same amount of time (if not longer) that my family had to wait. That's it. Plain and simple.
And if not, I better get a FAT reimbursement check for time and money spent doing it the legal way.
2Syako: There's no way unskilled workers will ever be able to afford fair and true restitution. Paying fair INS fees is probably even beyond many of their budgets. Factor in all the unpaid taxes, too. That doesn't even include the cost of educating--with the extra costs of bilingual education--X number of kids either here illegally or "anchor babies".
3Well, if that's the case, I better get reimbursed if they change the rules
That stuff costs so much, it's ridiculous. 
4The fact of the matter is, even the new fence and elevated border patrol will not stop immigrants from crossing the border. It has reduced it, yes, but as long as coyotes exist and people who make a living as smugglers prevail, this will be a problem. There was an article in TIME that talks about a gap in California's Imperial Valley which flows directly into the New River, which runs rampant with industrial waste, farm runoff and untreated human sewage. CBP agents report that these travelers will put a plastic bag on their head to blend with the "foam" of the rivers, just to get into the states. That is pure desperation, considering the river harvests all sorts of diseases like tuberculosis, hepatatis and typhoid.
5The only people immigration helps is big business, which is why neither candidate is going to stop the flow of cheap, illegal labor. It's simply not an option.
6raciccarone you are right again. we must look at the bigger picture here. it's too nuanced to explain to the average person before getting their opinion for something like this.
7They could've just stopped the title after "Media Misses the Point"
8Rac, I agree with you about the big business problem, but both candidates support employers being held accountable for hiring illegal immigrants and improved background checks and documentation.
Laine, if we shipped all of the illegal immigrants home tomorrow, the agriculture, construction, and meat industries would collapse. I don't think the all or nothing plans will work. The American people in general might want them all hauled off, but the American people also don't want their economy to collapse.
9Lainetm:
10I live in a community with a large percentage of illegal immigrants and let me tell you a couple of things (clue you in to the reality and not the rhetoric spouted by our politicians and those who find themselves without an important job other than stirring up controversy {i.e. Rush L., Al Sharpton, etc.}).
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First of all, yes they is quite a large chuck of illegal immigrants that are technically 'unskilled workers'. However, since they are the illegal ones, in a construction site, they are the ones that are actually working. The other guys just stand around and 'supervise them' (watch them work) ... this include the so-called 'low-skilled African Americans' and Anglo-Americans. Also, look where produce is being picked across the country. Do you see 'low-skilled African Americans' picking the tomatoes or lettuce or oranges that we eat, no, and nor are the 'low-skilled African Americans' interested in doing such back-breaking labor. Oh, and don't get idealistic in the idea that it isn't back-breaking labor, it is when you have to pick tomatoes in in Homestead (middle-south Florida), or picking oranges (mid-Florida), or sugar cane picking (mid-west Florida) all in 90+ degree weather. This is not a job anyone would actively volunteer to do.
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And let me tell you, don't think that this is a race issue. This country's sugar crop is picked by illegal Hatians that get up every morning at 5:00 AM and return to their homes at 8:00 PM. Oh, and just in case you don't think that work day is hard enough, they work Monday through Sunday (yeah, that's right, all day, everyday) in an average of 85+ (all year) 95+ (summer) degree weather.
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If you grew up in this country, you have no reason, other than mental incapacity to be considered a 'low-skilled' worker. With all of the things that we have access to, we truly have no excuse, and yet some people allow that excuse to be illegal immigrants. It is a fallacy that jobs are being taken away by illegal immigrants. The lack of jobs in this country is from the jobs being shipped overseas to India and other countries (jobs such as telephone support {just call Dell 1-800's if you have any doubt}). Listen, 10 years ago, that would have been a job done by an American (being overpaid for a basic job), but since it's much cheaper to export the job to India, that's what these major corporations do. The problem and bottom-line, isn't the illegal immigrants, it's the lack of job growth and the exportation of jobs overseas.
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By the way, heading over just a little to a separate issue, why do you think that we have such a global energy crisis, because countries like China and India are using up massive amount of petroleum in record numbers (we're not the only powerhouse anymore).
"Laine, if we shipped all of the illegal immigrants home tomorrow, the agriculture, construction, and meat industries would collapse. I don't think the all or nothing plans will work. The American people in general might want them all hauled off, but the American people also don't want their economy to collapse."
I agree with Jillness on this one. Even if the American people "in general" want all of the illegal immigrants to be deported, there's no way they would choose the collapse of the economy over deportation.
I definitely want to hear more about immigration plans from the candidates. It's probably one of the issues (IMO, unless I just haven't been paying enough attention) that isn't give enough coverage, and has so many gray areas (again, IMO).
11Jilli, they say that because they know neither a democratic or republican controlled congress will ever pass a bill holding businesses responsible for hiring illegal immigrants. It's cynicism in it's worst form: pretend you believe in something because it's popular, but you know it won't get passed.
12EJ: A few brief points:
You don't need to lecture me about high-immigration areas, I live in Los Angeles.
Wow, I didn't know anyone still generalized about lazy black workers. ("...nor are the 'low-skilled African Americans' interested in doing such back-breaking labor.")
You're right, I'm the first to say this is not a race issue. We have a growing number of Chinese and Korean immigrants, too.
Manual labor jobs here are being taken by illegal immigrants. Mid-level jobs (programmers, help desk people, etc.) are the ones being sent offshore. However, some of those call center jobs are coming back to the US, to places like Georgia and Arkansas. I've personally spoken to folks in both places in recent years.
"If you grew up in this country, you have no reason, other than mental incapacity to be considered a 'low-skilled' worker." Please don't be an elitist. Not everyone is cut out to be a college graduate. Speaking as a union member (and steward) we should have some respect for low-skilled people, too. The janitors and cafeteria and office workers and yard ladies (all SEIU members) also contribute to our kids' education, you know.
As for agricultural workers, I think prison inmates should be doing a lot of that work, and paid a reasonable stipend (although less than minimum wage) for it. It would provide a steady work force, allow the prisoners to build up a small fund for their release, and perhaps teach them the value of work and convince them to work on their education.
13Em - I don't know that anyone really wants all the illegal immigrants shipped back (I am guilty of spouting that rhetoric[I think], but I know it isn't feasable). I think what we want is to know that the flow of illegals from the south is being actively thwarted, by whatever means necessary. If it means building a fence, then do it. If it means putting 100,000 men with machine guns on the border, then do it. We need to stop the mentality that everyone coming to America doesn't need to become American.
14actually the mentality is that if you are willing to come to america and work a thankless job for little pay, your employer will look the other way. the fence and the machine guns won't do a damn thing. what we need are severe fines and criminal penalties for employers who continue to hire illegals. they are the ones who are creating the inviting atmosphere... not holes in a border fence, or rivers. if there were no jobs for them here they wouldn't come.
anyone who is here should be allowed a certain period of time to become legal, especially those who have started families here and have children who are citizens because of their birth place. beyond that grace period... they should have to leave. that will create an environment that is not hospitable to illegal immigration, but is also not hostile toward people who have been here for years, working and contributing to our economy.
15I agree UnDave, we're not some ATM were people can come here to work and then send their money home. If you want to come to America, you should contribute to the economy, pay your taxes and become a citizen.
16actually stiletta, illegals do pay taxes. many have false papers that allow them to get regular, "over the table", jobs where they get a normal paycheck - just like you and i. payroll taxes like social security and medicare are deducted... but the ironic thing is, they are not entitled to any of that because their SSNs are fake. so, in fact, they are paying into a system that they are never going to use. ive even heard arguments that they are helping social security! just sayin'
17I agree yesteryear. I live in an area where there is A LOT of manufacturing, and these jobs are coveted by illegal immigrants. There are certain states, Wisconsin being one of them, that has a workhire program online. This program requires all businesses in the state to register their new hires, and from there, the state will check all of the information received on their applications. If businesses do not participate they incur huge fines. If information sent into the newhire program is incorrect (for example it belongs to someone else) the business is immediately notified (this has happened several times at the company I work for). Ignorance is no longer an excuse for actively hiring cheap labor.
18**In addition to huge fines, businesses will be criminally prosecuted.
http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=598740
19lovelie, yes i think i heard about that new hire program on the radio a few months back - it seemed like a common sense approach and i was shocked that it was just now being brought online. california needs something like that, pronto!
20YY, I cede to your point. You are correct. I meant that when an illegal immigrant uses our hospital, our school or any other state endowed institution, that comes out of our pockets.
21stiletta, actually... property tax and sales tax are large parts of the funding for local hospitals, schools, etc. because many legal residents don't pay property tax (i'm one of them - i rent), that argument doesn't really fly. and sales tax - well anyone who shops in a locality, legal or not, has to pay sales tax. so even though they are illegal, they are still contributing to the economy that supports those services.
22yy - You personally don't pay property taxes directly, but it's included in your rent, and your landlord pays property taxes on that property in your behalf.
23Lainetm
24A: Just so we're clear, I was not generalizing about lazy workers. Nobody in their right mind would be happy to have a job picking tomatoes in the hot sun and that's a fact, no matter how you skirt around the issue.
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B: And those immigrants are taking whose jobs away? I would love for you to enlighten me with the Asian illegal immigration issue (just in case you think that was sarcasm, it wasn't. I don't know much about that issue.)
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C: No one truly wants to do those back-breaking manual labor jobs. The illegal immigrants are not taking away manual job labors. I totally agree with you about the mid-level jobs, those are the ones that are truly hurting out society, because look, the whole point of living in America and believing in the 'American Dream' is to move up a level from your existing level. (Yes, there is a class system in America, don't think or delude your self otherwise.)
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D: First time in my life I'm being considered an Elitist, I don't know if I should be happy or insulted, but either way, I'm immune to the name calling. Bottom line is this, I grew up in a neighborhood that was mainly on welfare (lived across the street from the 'projects') and no one expects anything of you. I've seen and lived this, were you get flunked out of a class and get sent to take the 'special test' for the 'special students' but in reality, you are gifted. So instead of getting the 'short bus' for mental incapacity, you're on there for the opposite side of the spectrum. The people/kids who wanted to 'get out' did. No, it' wasn't easy, and did some of them really struggled and they worked as 'janitors and cafeteria and office workers' not to mention, fast food joints ... If you really want something bad enough you do it. period.
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Anyway, I'm digressing. The point of all of this is this: You don't have to be a collage graduate to do something and to WANT to do something better with your life than picking tomatoes.
BTW: 'yard ladies' ... I've never heard of this, this phrase does not ring a bell ?
Also, I agree with unions as a concept and as a whole, not all states / jobs have unions (if you live in a 'Right to work state', unions tend to be totally ineffective and non-existent). Let's be clear, those jobs (that you list, and many that you have listed), are not being taken over by illegal immigrants. There's some weird fascination with connection jobs that are in short supply (and always the first to get cut in a budget crisis like now) with illegal immigration. The I.I. take the jobs that no one really wants.
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E: Now look who's the Elitist. I would love to see that happen (I don't agree with prisoners just sitting there doing nothing for x number of years {yes, there are activities, but essentially nothing}), it won't however, for several reasons.
i: Security
ii: Do you really want to give violent criminals machetes to get out the lettuce or get down the avocados ? Seriously? Did you think that aspect through?
Listen, Lainetm, you just said it, the great majority of the illegal immigrants are agricultural workers. Yes there are some that infiltrate the workplace and work in office settings or in retail with fake 'papers'. But the majority, stay out of the lime light.
iii: The prisoners would probably make much more than what the migrant workers make. Because, just so you're not deluding yourself, the I.I. make next to nothing per hour.
On the other point, I think prisoners should be doing road work (also back-breaking manual labor).
YY, I am confused. You say that many legal residents don't pay property taxes because they rent? Well, what about the person who owns your home? They must pay those taxes. As for people who pay sales tax, true, illegal immigrants do pay those, but legal citizens also pay them and that's the real issue. Why should any of my taxes have to pay for any services for people who are illegally in my country. You're argument is that not a lot of my taxes are going to that end, whereas I'm saying, I don't want any of them.
Also, I hate to say this, but I also believe illegal immigrants are holding down the wages in this country. If a company had to hire a citizen they'd have to probably pay more, but why do that when they can pay 1/3 less for an illegal immigrant? That also cuts into our tax base.
25undave --yes, and so do the illegals who pay rent.
26stiletta, yes, they are holding down wages. thats why companies who hire them to benefit from those low wages should be charged with crimes and forced to pay heavy fines. maybe even have their business licenses taken away. see my previous comment.
27I can't believe I used "you're" instead of the possessive "your". And I was an English major!
28also, isn't it funny that we are giving tax breaks, subsidies, to corporations (like agribusiness) who are hiring all of these illegals? hmm. so they are getting help from the government on the front AND the back end. interesting!
29YY, sometimes debating a point with you is like wrestling a demon bronco from hell. You just refuse to stay on one point. But someday, I'll break you!
30UnDave35
31Where are you grandparents from?
Where are you great-grandparents from?
Where are you great-great grandparents from?
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Do you see where I'm going with this? Unless your Native American (and pretty 'full-blooded' one at that {high percentage of pure Native American}) you shouldn't really sprout much should you?
It was ok for for your previous generations to come in, but now that you're in you want to stop the flow? Isn't that a little greedy of you?
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ALL of you for the matter, it was ok for for your previous generations to come in, but now that you're in you want to stop the flow? Isn't that a little greedy of you?
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Just look at Ellis Island records.
Ejmcmis! How dare you use this "history" against us!
32stiletta, i am competing in a rodeo next weekend. you are free to join us and try to tame me. you can even wear your pumps instead of spurs.
33syako, i am with you! With all the money we have paid out for my husband's immigration paperwork and all the time spent waiting...it is a very frustrating system as it currently exists!
34is the angola prison rodeo
35*is it the
I got too excited.
Martini - tell me about it!!!
36raciccarone
Yes I dare, and yes, that's why it bothers me so much, the issue of illegal immigration.
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... Again, for all of you reading through the comments, stop and think for a moment ...
Where are you grandparents from?
Where are you great-grandparents from?
Where are you great-great grandparents from?
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Do you see where I'm going with this? Unless your Native American (and pure Native American} you shouldn't really sprout much should you?
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ALL of you for the matter, it was ok for for your previous generations to come in, but now that you're in and settled you want to stop the flow? Isn't that a little greedy of all of you?
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Just look at Ellis Island records. Listen, this country was founded on immigrants and illegal immigration at that. What if the Native Americans would have built a fence?
And we as illegal immigrants kicked the Native Americans out to crappy lands that we not of use to the country.
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And since 'we're going there' all of the south western US belonged to Mexico, so yeah, you could extrapolate that the Mexicans and Central Americans are 'just going to their ancient homelands' ... they're just going home.
37.
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... Do you see how ludicrous this is.
Ejmcmis- I don't think Undave was implying that the influx of immigration has to stop, I think what he, and many others, feel that they should have to go through legal entry to gain citizenship. How is it ok to force immigrants from other countries to go through the long, tedious process (as Syako pointed out) to become a citizen and let immigrants from Mexico bypass this system because they provide cheap labor for businesses?
38Where are you grandparents from? Seymour and Columbus, IN
Where are you great-grandparents from? Rock Island, IL and NY, NY
Where are you great-great grandparents from? Not a clue, my leneage changed his name on the boat ride over.
The point is. When he came over, he did so to become and American. This isn't about who is immigrating into our society, but how and why. Illegal immigrants don't necessarily want to become a part of this great nation, just take from it. Why is it that such a hard concept. Do I agree that our immigration laws need to be changed, yes. Do I want a way to protect myself from the people who choose to bypass the system, for whatever the reason? yes.
39"How is it ok to force immigrants from other countries to go through the long, tedious process (as Syako pointed out) to become a citizen and let immigrants from Mexico bypass this system because they provide cheap labor for businesses"
40Ejmcmis- Where do you think the native americans came from? They aren't necessarily originally from here, they just got here first.
41The Alamo...
42...And since 'we're going there' all of the south western US belonged to Mexico, so yeah, you could extrapolate that the Mexicans and Central Americans are 'just going to their ancient homelands' ... they're just going home.
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That is celabrated because we were the victors
UnDave35
43Since they got 'here first' don't they have the right to claim it?
Ejmcmis - I think lovlie has it right....no one here is saying we should stop immigration, but rather that people wanting to come here go through the LEGAL process to do so. My father was an immigrant and my husband is an immigrant and my mother's family were immigrants way far back, but all came here through LEGAL means.
44I absolutely agree we are a nation of immigrants and shouldn't throw stones about immigration in general. My problem is the number of illegal immigrants that come into this country (thereby breaking the law) and want the government to give them a free pass. My younger sister married a non-citizen and together they have spent the last year and a half trying to get him a visa to even come live with her in the U.S., and it has been a difficult. They have drained their savings for the lawyers, documentation fees and the stress is weighing down what should be a happy time for them. She hasn't seen her husband in person for a year and we can only hope that he will be here by the end of summer but the U.S. is limiting visas from Europe and Asia. I don't care where you came from, we have paths to citizenship like every other nation and everyone should have to follow it, if not you can't stay. Building a fence isn't going to stop immigration and the U.S. is so wrapped up in the economies of other nations we can't quarantine ourselves off completely. With everything my family has gone through any "easy" path to citizenship will make me angry, whether that is right or wrong of me.
45MartiniLush
46You're missing the point of what I'm saying. When your great-great grandparents' or what have you came over they were just as illegal. THAT IS MY POINT.
I understand where you are coming from Ejmcmis...but this isn't the 19th century. There have been so many systems implemented since the great migrations of many or our forefathers...social security, income taxes, property taxes, the list goes on. With the implementation of such systems, citizens need to have a secure place in our nation to not only donate to these systems, but also to receive the benefits of these systems. Having large amounts of illegal immigrants without any accountability does not help anyone.
47What there needs to be with the 'reform' (gosh, I HATE that word, but there's no better way to but it), is an eventual path (that doesn't drain your life savings jessy777) to citizenship. Have the people jump through hoops, ok, I get it, even though I don't agree with it. Everyone's back generations didn't have to jump through the hoops the way the current illegal immigrants do.
48.
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Oh, and UnDave35, "Illegal immigrants don't necessarily want to become a part of this great nation, just take from it." Take from it how ... as yesteryear pointed out
"actually stiletta, illegals do pay taxes. many have false papers that allow them to get regular, "over the table", jobs where they get a normal paycheck - just like you and i. payroll taxes like social security and medicare are deducted... but the ironic thing is, they are not entitled to any of that because their SSNs are fake. so, in fact, they are paying into a system that they are never going to use. ive even heard arguments that they are helping social security! just sayin'"
Oh let's just get the inevitable over with globalize under one government, make all Presidents, Prime Ministers, Kings and Queens Representatives and just be one big happy family. TeeHee!!!!
49One of my biggest issues with immigration in the U.S. is that my family had to wait(and is still waiting) for our immigration status to be approved. We all submitted the necessary paperwork, paid the necessary amounts(lots) of money and lawyers fees for more than 2 decades. We were petitioned in 1987, a month after I was born, but we're still waiting. (Although the embassy did tell us my father will be approved next year, but I'll be 22 by then, not a minor so we have to go through a couple of more hurdles)
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