McCain or Obama? Can You Pick Out the Patriotic Candidate?

July 4, 2008

John McCain and Barack Obama wrote about the meaning of patriotism for Time. I took excerpts form McCain's essay "A Cause Greater Than Self" and Obama's "A Faith in Simple Dreams." Can you match the quote to the patriotic candidate?

The magazine also featured a great piece about the state of American patriotism. Check it out here. Tell me —how do you define patriotism? Good luck on the quiz!

Source

News Fourth Of July Quiz Nation

52 Comments

Jude C 4 years 45 weeks

*shorter and clearer

Jude C 4 years 45 weeks

*shorter and clearer

Jude C 4 years 45 weeks

I want to say something about the idea that attending a particular church implies lockstep agreement with all the clergyman's beliefs and sermons: The synagogue I work for is a Chabad House, which means that it is a Jewish synagogue led by an ultra-Orthodox Chassidic rabbi but dedicated to outreach to Jews of all levels of observance and practice. This means that while the rabbi preaches the most orthodox doctrines and sticks to the most orthodox theological views (as well as how they apply to politics and everyday life), by definition many of the synagogue members do not subscribe completely to his teachings and views. They aren't blind followers of their rabbi's sermons; that isn't why they're there. In fact, I've heard quite a few very heated disagreements between the rabbi and the most prominent members of the synagogue on theological and political issues, indicating that, again, even the most prominent members of the synagogue don't subscribe blindly to the rabbi's point of view. This also indicates that even strong disagreement with the rabbi's point of view doesn't compel them to leave the synagogue. In my experience, most people attend any kind of church or religious service much less out of agreement with a clergyman or church's doctrines, and much more for other reasons. The two most common ones, I think, are that they may be believers in their religion in general, and their particular church happens to be most convenient for them, or they may simply want to preserve their religions traditions and continuity for themselves and their children. Or some of the teachings may work for them, canceling out the ones that don't. It's not as simple as blindly following the clergyman or choosing a church whose clergyman espouses all of one's own beliefs. There's a lot of pick-and-choose, and the priest, rabbi, or minister doesn't always speak for his congregants, even the most loyal ones. Ugh. I'm tired today; I wish this had come out shorter and clear. But that's what I wanted to say.

Jude C 4 years 45 weeks

I want to say something about the idea that attending a particular church implies lockstep agreement with all the clergyman's beliefs and sermons:The synagogue I work for is a Chabad House, which means that it is a Jewish synagogue led by an ultra-Orthodox Chassidic rabbi but dedicated to outreach to Jews of all levels of observance and practice. This means that while the rabbi preaches the most orthodox doctrines and sticks to the most orthodox theological views (as well as how they apply to politics and everyday life), by definition many of the synagogue members do <b>not</b> subscribe completely to his teachings and views. They aren't blind followers of their rabbi's sermons; that isn't why they're there.In fact, I've heard quite a few very heated disagreements between the rabbi and the most prominent members of the synagogue on theological and political issues, indicating that, again, even the most prominent members of the synagogue don't subscribe blindly to the rabbi's point of view. This also indicates that even strong disagreement with the rabbi's point of view doesn't compel them to leave the synagogue.In my experience, most people attend any kind of church or religious service much less out of agreement with a clergyman or church's doctrines, and much more for other reasons. The two most common ones, I think, are that they may be believers in their religion in general, and their particular church happens to be most convenient for them, or they may simply want to preserve their religions traditions and continuity for themselves and their children. Or some of the teachings may work for them, canceling out the ones that don't. It's not as simple as blindly following the clergyman or choosing a church whose clergyman espouses all of one's own beliefs. There's a lot of pick-and-choose, and the priest, rabbi, or minister doesn't always speak for his congregants, even the most loyal ones.Ugh. I'm tired today; I wish this had come out shorter and clear. But that's what I wanted to say.

Cassandra57 4 years 45 weeks

Personal beliefs, kept personal, are irrelevant. Wright's beliefs aren't "personal". They are also not mainstream. I freely admit where I am lacking information, and when I lack time for research. Appearances to the contrary, I have an off-line life.

Cassandra57 4 years 45 weeks

raciccarone 4 years 45 weeks

I find that funny, Lain. Yet for Obama you seem to have so many facts at your fingertips. As long as we're being objective, being a member of a church doesn't mean you subscribe the personal beliefs of its minister, does it? If that were true, would every Catholic who attended the sermon of the pedophiles make them pedophiles by association? According to your argument, it does.

harmonyfrance 4 years 45 weeks

Where is Jill? I MISS JILL! :cry:

harmonyfrance 4 years 45 weeks

Where is Jill? I MISS JILL! :cry:

harmonyfrance 4 years 45 weeks

hoo-boy. :drinks:

harmonyfrance 4 years 45 weeks

hoo-boy. :drinks:

Cassandra57 4 years 45 weeks

I won't excuse McCain's solicitation of Hagee's enorsement. I'd have to investigate what comments were made and at what time, first. However, I *do* believe that attending a church for 20 years implies endorsement of the minister's theology. I believe that easily distinguishes the two cases. Also, over the years, I have noticed that emotional responses, particularly aggressive ones, frequently indicate a lack of objective supporting evidence. And an emotional discussion rarely leads to a good resolution. Just sayin'.... (:hides:)

Cassandra57 4 years 45 weeks

Jude C 4 years 45 weeks

:ROTFL:

Jude C 4 years 45 weeks

:ROTFL:

raciccarone 4 years 45 weeks

Me too, Jude. I am afraid of Obama, but I don't know if I am afraid for the right reasons!

Jude C 4 years 45 weeks

Anyway, all the fearmongering has gotten me confused. Are we supposed to be afraid of Obama because he might be an angry black Christian who agrees with Wright's most out-there stances, or a terrorist black Muslim in line with Louis Farrakhan? Christianity and Islam are monotheistic faiths; he surely can't be both. I wish the fearmongers would get their stories straight.

Jude C 4 years 45 weeks

"it does define them a bit." As does actively seeking the support of someone like Pastor John "Katrina was God's judgment against New Orleans, and also, Catholics suck" Hagee. Neither candidate "endorsed" the rantings of their respective controversial religious figures. Both candidates repudiated the remarks made by said religious figures. Obama is no longer a member of Wright's church, and McCain has distanced himself from Hagee. Let's move on to more substantive issues that aren't, as Rac pointed out, tortured, lame, and full of veiled racism.

Jude C 4 years 45 weeks

"it does define them a bit."As does actively seeking the support of someone like Pastor John "Katrina was God's judgment against New Orleans, and also, Catholics suck" Hagee.Neither candidate "endorsed" the rantings of their respective controversial religious figures. Both candidates repudiated the remarks made by said religious figures. Obama is no longer a member of Wright's church, and McCain has distanced himself from Hagee. Let's move on to more substantive issues that aren't, as Rac pointed out, tortured, lame, and full of veiled racism.

raciccarone 4 years 45 weeks

Obama's church is bad, McCain's church is good. Got it.

Great Sommelier 4 years 45 weeks

And, when said candidate has been a member of said church for so long, it does define them a bit.

Great Sommelier 4 years 45 weeks

Actually, the racism in the Wright instance wasn't veiled at all.

raciccarone 4 years 45 weeks

So is this tortured, lame, ridiculous Candidate=Church garbage argument with it's veiled racism and transparent coded hypocrisy.

Great Sommelier 4 years 45 weeks

That is tacky rac.

Great Sommelier 4 years 45 weeks

That is tacky rac.

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