So you're willing to risk losing the guy you love and want to be with forever, just because you want forever to start a little sooner than he does?

I wouldn't buy a house with him until you are married. It just makes good legal sense not to even go near that minefield without the commitment of marriage. You could end up seriously screwed up financially if you enter into a legal contract like the house and are not married.

Like the first reply said... you are willing to risk losing the man you love just because you want a ring on your finger? Your priorities are severely skewed. I mean, I wouldn't sign a contract on a house without a wedding but I can live in cohabited bliss quite happily without?!

Is there any reason why he isn't willing to discuss marriage? Him side-stepping around the issue of putting a ring on your finger is a little odd considering he's happy to discuss everything else. Are his parents divorced? Was he pressured by a previous girlfriend for marriage? There is not enough information here and I do not feel qualified to answer this fully.

Yeah you're quite fool. I say don't wait so that you can release him to a woman who will be willing to wait for him. You will be married the rest of your life so why would you want to rush that? If you are ready to leave him because he won't marry you when your spoiled self wants, then how do you think your marriage is going to last? You think that if you leave him you'll find that same connection and be married in less time? If you do then (1) it probably won't last and (2) it says much about you and that you don't want love, you want marriage. You should also go into couples counseling BEFORE getting engaged so that you can be sure that it DOES last. i understand that you may want to get married but you are only 24! Why not concentrate more on your career and getting that house and then think about marriage? I guarantee that if you get hitched now, you'll have a kid within the year and then there goes the marriage! You'll just be a mom until your 40s taking care of someone else and have no time to enjoy just your fiance or your husband. Learn to slow down a bit before you royally screw up your relationship.

And if you want to be mature about it, talk to people who have been married a long time and get their advice. And I don't mean 5 years, I mean like 35 years. While they may have married young, times were different. And I can almost guarantee again that they'll advise you to put off getting married. You'll never regret waiting but you will rushing it!!

Don't buy a house until you have a ring! It could be a legal disaster if someday you break up and one of your names is not on the house, or if one of you put more money in, etc.

As to your timeline: you're only 24. What in God's name is the rush? Some men his age don't like to consider marriage until they feel stable enough financially to raise a family--even if they have found "the one."

Our preconceived plans for our lives usually go down the toilet (the best laid plans of mice and men, etc.). You risk unhappiness if you don't show enough flexibility to deviate from the plan a bit. People flexible enough to deal with whatever life hands them tend to end up happiest.

You're young enough that you're not risking your ability to bear children. If what you really want is to be MARRIED, not to be married TO THIS GUY, do him a favor and leave him because you don't love him more than you love your Plan. If you marry him or anyone else just to fit your life into your time frame, you'll end up miserable. If he marries you before he's ready because he's afraid of losing you, you'll also end up miserable. Sometimes an ultimatum can be helpful, but I think your situation is not nearly far gone enough to call for it.

Your BF envisions you being part of his future, and you talk about kids, etc. I wouldn't worry too much that he's not ready for the marriage step... you're getting validation about how much he loves you and how important you are to him. It seems like one problem may be external pressure from what you wrote. It does get *EXTREMELY* hard when people ask when the wedding is, because they know you've been together a while, but their timeline shouldn't be yours. It's really no one else's business.

At the same time, although you're not asking for opinions about this, Fantome is so right-- you are NOT this guy's wife so why buy a house together? Does no one listen to Suze Orman? Until you have the legal protection of marriage, buying a house together can break you financially if you break up. Why not just rent, save your money for a down payment, and eventually buy together when you get married? Perhaps have a "house fund" that you both put money into.

This would be an interesting Dear Sugar debate in its own right-- should you buy a house together with a boyfriend?

I have been with my boyfriend for four years and have a similar situation as you- except I'm a bit older. When I ask my boyfriend about marriage he says he is afraid things will change if we get married. It is frustrating- I just want to go to Vegas or city hall and get the legal stuff done, I don't need a big wedding since I already feel like we are married.

However I would never give him an ultimatum. I want to be married to HIM, not just BE married. Maybe you should think about what you really want- you both are pretty young still. Since being married to him is whats important to me, I will wait if I need to. I bring it up every now and again and he is coming around slowly. I think my boyfriend is just afraid we will end up divorced like our parents, so I am trying to show him that we are not going to repeat their mistakes.

You are still really young. I know it doesn't feel that way, but slow your clock down a little bit. Explain calmly to him that you will not be able to take any major steps with him until you two are married (like buying a house, and personally I would recommend waiting to move in as well). Do not mix finances or anything like that. Once he comprehends that moving forward as a couple means getting married, he will have to eventually make a personal decision to propose. I would give both of yourselves more time to enjoy the relationship, but do be sure he knows how strongly you feel about marriage.

Something tells me i already answered this letter but, here i go...
It seems that you guys haven't actually talked about those plans to get married and that is serious. I wouldn't be planning on buying any kind of house with someone i wasn't married to, hell, engaged even. It's a very serious thing and not something to think of lightly, so don't buy any kind of property with this man unless you're already his wife. There is nothing wrong with you wanting to be married and you shouldn't give that up, there is something wrong however, with you guys not having actually had that talk. And having a talk about sharing the same timeline, isn't going to cut it.

I'm on my second marriage (got married at 19, and then again later at 26).. Trust me, marriage isn't all it's cracked up to be. It is a TON of work. I wouldn't trade this marriage for anything because I'm so in love with my man. (He asked me to marry him 6 times, so I was worried he would feel rejected if I didn't accept the last time..). But it's not all fun and games and light like being bf/gf (which I already knew when he kept asking).

And yeah, I wouldn't buy a house with your guy just yet unless you're asking for heartache or some long-term financial ties with him. If he's not ready - then he's not ready and that added pressure could hurt your relationship.

Plus, he's only 26. He has yet to live yet. And you're 24.. you're probably a little more mature than you realize for him.

Hmmm ... my viewpoint is vastly different than the others on this posting. Being older than you (31), I have seen numerous friends shack up with their boyfriends (some in houses they bought together, some not) and only 1 of them is married. In some instances the relationship has gone on for 7 or more years! In my opinion, if they guy doesn't know he wants to marry you by year 7, you are LONG overdue for getting out. That being said, ultimatums never work and aren't good for the relationship; if he loves you and takes the relationship seriously, he should be open to compromise or at the very least, a discussion.

To those who say don't "rush" it, 2 years is hardly rushing. I read on a relationship advice website that the average length of time for a man asking a woman to marry is 2 years and 4 months. According to their statistics, if the man drags his feet for a substantial amt of time, it means he is unsure and 9 times out of 10, the relationship ends in divorce.

As Berlin noted, there will always be women who are willing to wait (Exhibit A being my friends mentioned above). However, any woman who puts her desires on the backburner while some man tries to figure out whether or not he wants to be with her is stupid (in my opinion).

Seven years and 2 years are very different. Divorce rates are over 50%...and that certainly includes those that hitch up after only 2 years. You are still getting to know each other. Just because he isn't sure at 2 years doesn't mean that he won't ever be. Not to mention a lot of people, myself included, want to be completely secure financially before settling down to marry. I don't want to marry with a new mortgage, a small savings account, and a year into my job. I want to be many years settled into my job, house almost paid off, a huge savings account, retirement account, and assets. If you have anything else new going on at the time of marriage, it isn't going to help out any. Things should be as perfect as possible in life and the relationship before talking about and jumping into marriage. The wedding and life together afterwards will be stressful enough.

I have been with my boyfriend over 3.5 years and I don't plan to get married for at least another 6 years, I want to be in my 30s before tying the knot. And I don't need to have a ring on my finger in the mean time either.

But just because someone doesn't talk about it, doesn't mean they aren't planning on marrying you in the future. He sounds like he has a good head on his shoulders and that he isn't taking a marriage lightly.

Also, many, MANY relationships in your lifetime will be around 1-3 years. It's a typical timeframe for a long term that can turn sour by the end. If you can last 6+ years dating, you'll have a much stronger foundation to work on and have a lasting marriage.

But jenwils, if you're getting your info from a "relationship advice website" it doesn't make me have too much faith in anything spewing from those lines of text.

I agree with most of the others here. I'd just wait. I was having a talk with my male coworkers yesterday and they're all about the same age. They can't see getting married now just because they're not ready to be married. It doesn't have anything to do with the person, marriage is just a big thing which generally leads to having a family and financial obligations. You have to be really ready for that sort of thing. It sounds like he does want to marry you some day, and if you really love him, then you'll wait until he's ready.

OK, before you decide to give an ultimatum, consider this, marriage is FOREVER (supposedly), and it takes tons of energy, sacrifice, etc to maintain it. What's the deal with rushing into it especially if you guys have already discussed about the future and saving up for a downpayment of a house, etc, it seems that it's going that way anyway, so what's wrong with waiting a little more. You don't know this, but your bf may even be planning on proposing, just waiting for the right occasion to do so, and your giving him an ultimatum will just give such a bad taste in the whole thing.
You don't want to force him into proposing, you want HIM to want to propose to you. Is he so flaky to the point you're so scared of him not wanting to propose to you, has he given you any reason to believe that he's just postponing the inevitable (not proposing--break up)? Only YOU really know how he really is, if you even suspect that he's not wanting to marry you at all, you really should just let go of the relationship and find someone else who will suit your needs/standards.

Oh another thing, I agree w/ the other ladies, DO NOT Buy a house together unless you're married.

Good luck.

There is nothing you can do he told you he is not ready to become engaged. I agree that your thinking is a little skewed, the impression you have given is one of wanting that ring on your finger. Before you even think about marriage or buying a house with him you need to realize there is more to life than being married on your time-line.

Ultimatums like the one you are considering giving are not only stupid but incredibly selfish and imature as well. Do not make an ultimatum you are not willing to keep. You are already assuming it'll work out in your favor. Do not assume that. However, if you are willing and if you think by ending your relationship with this man you supposedly love will get you to the alter quicker with someone else, you are thinking quite foolishly.

It's already clear that your love is not withstanding with your current boyfriend if you are ready to give an make or break ultimatum. You are not ready for marriage like you think you are. As I see it, he has already made it quite clear to you that you two will be married someday. You are only 24. Should you get married later at 27 or 28 and granted you have a long and healthy life with him, you are going to be spending about 50-75 years with him if you consider marriage is for life. Doesn't that make the 4 years of waiting to be married sound small in comparison to the life after marriage?

Berlin, my dear, you sound bitter and young. Let's talk in 6 years after you've accumulated all this "wealth", and your bf who doesn't talk about marrying you has magically decided to. 6+ years of dating is absurd, unless you truly don't care about being married, and I have met very few women who truly do not care.

chill....it will happen when it happens. don't put everything on a timetable...it will work out for the best. good luck with you and your man.

If it ain't broke don't fix it dear. Don't be in a rush to get to the next step, it sounds like you guys are a great couple that is really on the same page for your life goals. You may not believe this, but you're going to miss this time! This time to be just the two of you and travel and sleep in for hours on the weekends and date and have fun. I agree, with the others don't buy the house until you're engaged. But there is nothing wrong with saving together (in separate accounts) for a common goal. I think its mature of your boyfriend to realize he's not ready to take that next step, and I don't think its a reflection of how he feels about you. Enjoy this time!!

Ultimatums are certainly distasteful, so I'd avoid this if at all possible. But discussions must certainly be had, especially if the two of you really are on a journey of betterment together. He should be able to fully explicate why HE is on a timeline as much as you are.

Perhaps you ought to both consider what your views of marriage are in the first place. Is marriage a matter of legality, milestones, chapters, and romantic titles? Is it an emotional/spiritual commitment to an individual, a unified life, family? Whatever it is, you must do what comes naturally, and what you can hold yourself to. In my opinion, "scheduling" life is a waste of energy. Be it an engagement now or two years from now.

On a more personal note, what's so unsettling about being married if you guys are already sharing a life together and intend on further fusing your dreams (house, children, etc.)? If it's nerves on either part about wanting out later, perhaps marriage ought not to be in the cards at all. o.O It is, by definition, a commitment for life. Don't bother making promises you'd rather not keep.

How does one talk about rearing children, sharing dreams, and building a life together without a discussion about its foundation? Or maybe the actual wedding event seems like too much to handle at present?

I definitely would not buy a house with him until I was married. However, I am different from a lot of the other posters in that I would not have been living with him already anyway. I just feel that if I am good enough for you to play house with then I am good enough for you to marry. This is strictly what I feel for me and for those that don't feel that way it is fine. But you obviously want to be married and he won't even discuss it. I don't think 2 years is too short to expect it either.

cuba-dog took the words right out of my mouth. He isn't ready and nothing is going to change that. Do not buy a house with someone you may not be with in two years. And yes, realize there's a LOT more to life than getting married. Explore yourself and put your thoughts and efforts into that instead of trying to get a reluctant boyfriend to the altar.

I agree with much of the previous comments. You are both still young, don't rush it. Though it seems like 2 years is a very long time, you are both still getting to know each other. Take your time to fall in love. Good Luck

Most women want to live the dream of marriage and what they dream it entails, and there are statistics that indicate 50 percent of first marriages survive, but if they don't it can be very expensive. I hate to say it, but I think Angelina Jolie and Goldie Hawn have it all figured out ~ although it took them both two marriages before realizing that a marriage certificate does not guarantee bliss.

I have an environmentalist friend with two small children who makes an above average salary whose divorce has cost her $36,000 so far. I would suggest that if you are able to talk him into marriage, you may want to consider a prenuptual agreement to ensure that should you ever be divorced it can be accomplished without going to court because the one with the most money wins. I know someone who lived in an upscale neighborhood whose husband (on the sly) put all their assets in his father's name, and then bought a new house, under his father's name, and let the house they live in go into foreclosure. Luckily she was able to cash in her 401k to obtain a divorce lawyer, but there he and his new girlfriend sit in his new larger home that can't be declared as a mutual asset...and she has nothing after 18 years of marriage. So believe me marriage guarantees no financial protection and does not guarantee faithfulness.

Let him go. Men aren't so much about finding the right woman-as they are about finding the right time in their own life. So, go find some guy who thinks you're worth marrying now

From your description it sounds like your boyfriend has every intention of marrying you-- just not as soon as you'd like. If that is the case, it would be very unwise to give him an ultimatum-- what is that going to accomplish, other than drive a stake between you guys? He will just feel pressured into proposing and he's already expressed he's not ready yet. Do you really want a proposal from someone who is not ready to be married? Why is it so important to be married, anyhow? What matters is that you've found the love of life. Be happy with what you have, and be patient because he will ask you to be with him for the rest of your lives. Don't mess it up by pressuring him into doing anything he doesn't want to do just yet.

jenwils, 31? Really? This is considered old and wise? I thought 31 was young... guess not. Maybe you are the one who is bitter because you got jerked around when you were "in your youth." Berlin made a good point about referencing relationship advice sites: don't. As a wizened 31 year-old, shouldn't you know that already? How many people in their early twenties (including yourself) do you think knew what they wanted in hindsight?

There is nothing wrong with a six-year relationship. I'd put a lot more faith in a six-year than a two-year. Infatuation and being in love with being in love don't last very long. Regardless, maybe a six-year (or whatever it may be) isn't right for you but that certainly doesn't make it "absurd."

I don't think Berlin meant she'd be a multi-millionaire at your old age but that she'd have her financial goals well on their way. A variety of factors could make her goal realistic. Perhaps your life is wrought with poor decisions that have put you in a less than desirable position in life. Planning ahead to protect numero uno first, before any spouse or fiance, is vital.

Anyway, to answer the letter: She sounds like one of those whiny girls who want to be married for the sake of being married. They started dating when she was 22. Good grief, why not wait and experience more life? She's just a baby. What does she fear by not getting married NOW? This sounds like a validation issue. Constantly pressuring someone (including allowing your family to pressure them) is not going to give you what you want. Agree, etc. with all the ultimatum folks: bad idea.

Just enjoy the ride and chill.

I have to completely agree with what Berlin said ... down to not wanting to get married until I'm well into my 30s. I personally have never understood women who are my age (early 20s) and write into magazines and websites like these saying "WHEN IS HE GOING TO MARRY ME???" But hey, whatever floats your boat. But to think that you'd be willing to walk away from the person you love just because he won't commit to you on a piece of paper and/or in front of a congregation in a church within a certain deadline ... I don't get that. But that's just me.

I have been where you are emotionally. I don't know if your guy has made some sort of secret decision that he will never marry you, or whether you're just at different places. Time will tell. Don't wait forever, but don't just assume the first scenario is true either. I have a great marriage, but I was ready WAY before my husband. It hurt my feelings at the time, but didn't cause any irreparable harm to our relationship. We eventually made a mutual decision over dinner to get married. If I had waited for a traditional proposal, we still might not be married! It ended up being a bit of a compromise for both of us, and it worked out fine. While I was waiting for him to come around, I went on and bought a house. It was empowering to do that on my own! It's different with each couple, and I certainly don't think there is anything wrong with livin together before marriage, but in our case I wouldn't have agreed to buy the house "with him" without some pretty definite marriage plans. Good luck.

SLOW DOWN!

as much as you want it...you have given yourself 2 years also....WHY? do you want to drop the "wonderful guy" to start over with some stranger that you haven't even met??? Unless you're out of love with your bf...stay where you are. You're 24 and could be getting married at 26-27. Start a new relationship and you could be getting married at 30! Instead of pushing marriage...be 100% sure your guys is THE GUY! What's the point of stressing?

there's no logic in your question...

Sigh, as someone who has been 7 years into a relationship, with an engagement ring, I have to agree with jenwils. After enough time, you know or you don't. 26 is certainly old enough to know if you want to get married. This lovely woman is faced with a man who isn't even willing to *talk* about marriage for 2 years at a minimum. While you shouldn't throw away a good future, resentment will continue to build if you feel this man is it and he doesn't necessarily feel the same way about you. If in one year, he hasn't changed his stance any and is still unwilling to even talk about the future, you shouldn't overlook that. If he's telling you "I'll live with you, I'll buy a house with you, I'll promise you things," but all of his actions are saying the opposite and he does not value marriage... that's important. Good luck.

Maybe he's just trying to surprise you.

I guess maybe I'm a weirdo but I see where the OP is coming from. If indeed he wants to be with you for the rest of his life for sure then what's the hesitation about. It can be really frustrating waiting for something you feel is so right. I would say to talk to him tell him how you feel and ask him how he feels and why. it may just come down to financial situationsor soem other idea he has about marriage. Let him know that you are willing to wait for him to feel it's right but point out how you feel about his stipulations. Make your case soemtimes we all need a new perspective to help us move along. If he is just using this as a stall tactic then let him loose because no matter how much you love him if he doesn't love you the same way wiating or not won't change that

I agree with jenwils and bransugar!

There are an awful lot of judgmental people posting here who seem unable to sympathize with next step nina. Calling names ("baby" "fool" etc.) and using such a condescending tone (telling her to "chill out") just indicate that these people are not committed to giving constructive advice. I don't know why they wasted their time.

I am currently in Nina's position (well, similar) and I can understand this problem. It's not a good feeling. It certainly doesn't help to be pegged as whiny, needy, or uptight simply because you feel love and commitment for someone that you believe only marriage will truly dignify. (Obviously marriage isn't for everyone, but for those who feel this way, it's a given.) It's a struggle to be forced into a role you never wanted and to handle it gracefully.

I don't know why so many posting here are more than willing to give the guy what he needs (two years) but refusing Nina what she needs (at least to talk about marriage). Both bf/gf relationships AND marriage are about balance. If the guy really cares, he will come to some sort of compromise in order to meet Nina halfway. Maybe this just means talking about it right now. My point is that it's a give and take. Sounds like the guy is just taking right now, everything is on his terms, and so many women here seem so willing to allow it! Crazy. Makes me wonder about your relationships.

I don't have the solution - I'm still in the midst of this scenario myself - but I know that the judgmental responses are not the answer. My bf has come a long way to understanding how I feel and why, including the frustration that comes from being put in this "whiny need gf" role (which btw I would have thought came from men...but this post suggests maybe women create that even more). Hope you don't take them too seriously Nina - give your own feelings some credit, and I'm sure your bf will too.

I think you need to wake up and smell reality. It is people like you that ruin relationships because you have to have it on a piece of paper by a certain time period.

Honestly, 2 years isn't super long - and he is only 26. I completely disagree with jenwils01...6+ years is not absurd! Why is one time period okay and another not? I have been with my boyfriend for 5+ years and we are not planning on getting married anytime soon. I completely agree with Berlin - I want more time to acquire some stable wealth, not start a marriage with a brand new mortgage and have paid off my car, etc. Both my bf and I want to pursue further studies, we could end up anywhere in the country for grad school. Should we sacrifice and try and go to less reputable schools to stay in the same city? Um, no. If we get married after grad school, we'll have been together for like 9 years. God forbid!!!

OP - Let your boyfriend breathe and live his life, while happily being in a relationship with you!

You were forward thinking enough to live with him before marriage but are traditional enough to want to get married after 2 years. I don't get it.

There's a classic little song that comes to mind by the Georgia Satellites that cracks me up everytime I hear it, but I'm sure it offers a make or break solution to marriage.

I got a little change in my pocket going jingle lingle ling Want to call you on the telephone baby, I give you a ring
But each time we talk I get the same old thing
Always “No huggie, no kissie until I get a wedding ring”

My honey my baby don't put my love upon no shelf
She said “Don't hand me no lines and keep your hands to yourself”
Cruel baby baby baby why you want to treat me this way
You know I'm still your lover boy:love: I still feel the same way
That's when she told me a story 'bout free milk and a cow
And said “No huggie no kissie until I get a wedding vow”

My honey my baby don't put my love upon no shelf
She said “Don't hand me no lines and keep your hands to yourself!”
You see I wanted her real bad and I was about to give in
That's when she started talkin' about true love started talkin' about sin:evil:
I said honey I'll live with you for the rest of my life
She said “No huggie no kissie until you make me your wife!”
My honey my Baby don't put my love upon no shelf
She “Don't hand me no lies and keep your hands to yourself!”

If nothing else I'll see if I've got my emotions figured out.

Amen sewsweet. Poor "Nina" is damned if she does, damned if she doesn't. By that I mean she's called selfish & immature for wanting to get married now; HOWEVER, if bf was ready now, and she wasn't, she'd be selfish too. What it amounts to is it's still a man's world, and the women on this post would have you sacrifice your desires to make sure you don't lose your man. I guess finding a man that can actually meet your needs is out of the question. ??
Here's how I see it: if you really want to get married, then you deserve someone who wants the same. If like the other posters, you are young & unready, then wait. Nina's ready and I think she can find a man who is too.

I actually read that letter as in he wants to get married in two years. So its not like he cant see himself married - just not now. Which is fine, frustrating yes but 26 is young for a man, so wait till he is 28 if he doesn't figure it out then... have a serious talk and figure out what you want to do from there. However, do tell him that you need to know from him - in a clear way that he does see you two getting married in a few years. Thats all.

Don't buy - just rent together. I am in the same position here.

Oh AND remember this when you start letting him know that you are relaxed about it - he will suddenly be more interested in it. Remember no pressure is the key here. He doesn't want to be forced to make this major decision - he wants to do it freely. So when you starting relaxing about it, putting no pressure on him and letting him know yes I do want to live with you before we become engaged - you will see a major change.

He might be worried that if you live together - you will reject him! Men have that fear too.

If you truly feel that he is the man that you want to be with, then you wouldn't care exactly when the marriage happens. If you care more about getting married by a certain day/time then about being with this particular man, then what makes you think he is really the man for you? You are still so young, stop being in a rush and let things happen naturally. I am not understanding the whole "I must get married by this age and then we must have kids by this age, etc..." Your life is not a script, if you truly want him as your life partner, then friggin chill out. Do you really want to pressure a man into marriage when he is not ready for it?