license place?

Yea, right a 7 trillion dollar fine. That would buy ALOT of spam, and tiny bubbles, heck they could reanimate Don Ho's corpse for that money keep the tourists happy.

when i read "american businessmen" an image of the monopoly guy popped into my head, rubbing his hands together.

Give me a break. Then let's take back all the good stuff that being a state has given them.

i.e. everything

I use to eat Spam. I am glad that I am not in that place anymore. I hate to look at it in the store.

I wonder what disadvantages do they feel from being a state.

It's funny that they'd press this now, just as Obama, who grew up in Hawaii, has a shot at the White House. Why not just declare him Hawaii's king if he wins and call things even?

Good lord, I didn't recognize you steph! And maybe they want no part in obama!

mmm hawaiian kings bread

I do look fine today, don't I?

How is this even "news"? I'm originally from Hawaii, and the Native Hawaiian rights movement has been going on, some would argue, since the overthrow in 1892, but has definitely gained more recognition in the last decade and a half on the overthrow's centennial and because of a joint resolution by Congress, signed by President Clinton, apologizing for the United State's role in the overthrow. (American geopolitical and business interests prompted the U.S. minister in Hawaii to give military aid to a coup led by American and European businessmen.)

The history of 19th century Hawaii is a sad thing, but too typical of the colonialism era. Hawaii was this country's only monarchy, which was recognized diplomatically by the major world powers at the time. But Euro-American interest dominated the politics and economy of the kingdom, forced major concessions in successive constitutions, and marginalized the Hawaiian people in their own land.

Is the Native Hawaiian sovereignty movement likely to go anywhere? Probably not. In addition to the above group, there are literally dozens of other factions with their own leaders and agendas, and ideas of what form reparations or restitution should take. And there's little agreement among them in any case. Most likely, if the Democrats take a clear majority in the Senate, Hawaii's Senator Akaka (who himself is part Hawaiian) will be able to push through his bill to recognize Hawaiians in a similar fashion to how the federal government now recognizes Native American tribes. Both Clinton and Obama had indicated they would sign such a bill into law.

So with no offense to stephley, they're no pressing anything just because Obama is running for office. In fact, groups like the one above very likely oppose a measure like federal recognition, which they would view as perpetuating foreign rule in the islands.

No offense taken Serial - I was just being a geek. Thanks for the lesson.

"American businessmen ousted and imprisoned the queen, and now the Kingdom Government is fighting for reparations."

Well my goodness that sounds like a familiar theme to me. Aside from the fact that neither side would want this I think it would be cool to see the Monarchy and the State government moves to a British type State rule. Where the Monarch is clearly visible and celebrated as a cultural leader but the power will reside with the Governor and representatives.

I have family in Hawaii and two cousins that are half Hawaiian. They think that idea is cool too.

Hark, did I catch a bit of "states rights" in there hyp?

I have always felt sketchy about the fact that we colonized Hawaii and turned it into a tourist attraction.

It would have become one anyway as time went on. Only much more rustic.

Well I was shooting for compromise but if states rights is hiding somewhere in there than that's fine too.

Please let it be...it makes me happy!

Alllriight II'll let it beee.

I don't see how Hawaiian natives are that different than Native Americans. Maybe we killed fewer of them with infected blankets?

If they want their own gov't I say go for it.

This brings to mind the mens Hawaiin Hula competition I watched last month. Hot Hot Hot! Wooooo!

Why do colonizers always feel so entitled, and that the death of a culture and people is so small in comparison to the "Stuff we brought them?" I'm pretty sure the Vietnamese would have been a hell of a lot happier if that whole French colonization thing hadn't happened even if it meant not having good bread and puff pastry.

I'm sure the native Hawaiians don't mind being minorities in land that they ruled. You know just like the Tibetans.

With that, in the real world this movement isn't going to make much of wave. Self government might be acceptable but maybe the acknowledgment that Hawaii was indeed pillaged by white businessmen with connections to the US Government might be a little more meaningful.

Oh and why is it that the US "Annexes" countries while everyone else is a "colonizer?" What with that? Someone educate me I really don't know what the difference is.

You know what? that's history. Plain and simple. That is how this world was built.

And one thing, the Japanese own most of Hawaiian businesses.

Not the evil "white businessmen". You know, the devil.

You just reminded me about all the histeria in the 80's and 90' about the Japanese owning too much in America when it was the British that owned more. Not sure what the ratio is now though.

I agree that history is history but on the same token present is present and future is future. The later two are being shaped and have yet to be shaped and with history as our campus I think the question to ask is why do we keep losing our way?

Yea they own them NOW, but I think back in the 1800's Japan wasn't really setting up shop in a lot of places.

And, someday American dominance will be history, be prepared to learn Chinese. And don't complain because that's history and that's life.

I agree with China, India, the EU and discussions floating around South America about an EU type government the U.S. will need to scoot over and share the spot light whether we like or not.

pffftt..that is a bit extreme ona.

I hate when peoples arguements are just sentences made up of extremes, you cant counter them because they make no sense.

The only way America will be dominated is if we let the WEAK and silly coddle us into the grave.

Pfft? Really? I mean we disagreed a lot today...I expect more from you. I think you should try again.

CaterpillarGirl. It's called sarcasm. Your comment not appreciate, you're off topic and getting personal.

Careful GS, it wasn't too long ago that 'the sun never sets on the British Empire' was a truism - and it wasn't liberal governance that did them in.

GS: I don't believe that sharing the distribution of power is a result of being dominated nor do I believe sharing the distribution of power is a sign of weakness.

Americas well being and place at the table with fellow superpowers of the future will be determined by our ability to adjust to a new age. If we play our cards right there is no reason that we should not sit at the head of that table and be looked to for guidance and respected for having forged the path for the others.

How can we sit here today and claim to start wars in foreign lands for the purpose of spreading freedom, democracy, and free economies so that other societies can be blessed with the same liberties that we as Americans have enjoyed and then turn a quick hand to say you can be prosperous but just not as prosperous as us.

hyno, i have absolutely no problem with other countries being prosperous and can't find where I implied that I did. I just think they should prosper on their own.

And steph, never will I ever say that someone can take over this country. I for one will go down in a blaze if someone tried. America the home of the free and the brave is my truism. I can give you many more slogans and mottos, but I think you get my point.

And ona, i meant pfft...that was extreme. And that is what I said. That was my comment on your extreme statement about learning chinese.

And I know you are probably already rolling your eyes at my patriotism that you probably see as extreme. If not, I apologize, it is just the usual response I get from liberals when I speak of my love for this amazing country.

No one raised the issue of patriotism, feel as you please.
Otherwise, you responded with a non sequitur - I'm guessing it was in order to change the subject from a comment you couldn't defend.

rowrr

Steph, as each day passes you are getting progressively ruder and downright mean.

It's only rude and mean when someone disagrees with you. Otherwise, you feel quite free to say anything you please - see comments 21 and 23 as examples.

1. In Lyndon Johnson's war on poverty, America built housing projects for the poor and underprivelidged. Then the problems started a) Crime was out of control due to the tiny area so many people were crammed into. B) no nearby employment, no nearby provisions, including no nearby grocery stores or gas stations.

2. Just read the teaching of Leo Strauss

Strauss taught that liberalism in its modern form contained within it an intrinsic tendency towards relativism, which in turn led to two types of nihilism. The first was a “brutal” nihilism, expressed in Nazi and Marxist regimes. These ideologies, both descendants of Enlightenment thought, tried to destroy all traditions, history, ethics and moral standards and replace it by force with a supreme authority from which nature and mankind are subjugated and conquered. The second type- the ‘gentle’ nihilism expressed in Western liberal democracies- was a kind of value-free aimlessness and hedonism, which he saw permeating the fabric of contemporary American society. In the belief that 20th century relativism, scientism, historicism, and nihilism were all implicated in the deterioration of modern society and philosophy, Strauss sought to uncover the philosophical pathways that had led to this state. The resultant study lead him to revive classical political philosophy as a source by which political action could be judged

3. Italy, The Failure Of The Liberal State 1876-1914

http://www.rufuspollock.org/nonfiction/italy_the_failure_of_the_liberal_...

4. Why Socialism Failed
http://spruce.flint.umich.edu/~mjperry/socialism.htm

And I can go on and on, I just tried to list a varied little group here.

I have tried to respond but it is getting flagged. It is my links I suppose.

It'll turn up, mine always do - usually after I've written something trying to explain what I said which is very frustrating.

whoops, responded on the wrong thread. And steph, I am by far not the only person who thinks you have gotten progressively more rude over the past couple of weeks. So attacking me is just proving my point further.

GS: look who's talking!

I'm fine with it.

For what it's worth GS, I had to ask Team Sugar to free up a couple of posts of mine that got caught in the spam filter this week. Maybe that's happening to yours.

GS, It's an interesting group you quote - and they may have convinced you that liberalism has failed.
#1 is opinion with no facts offered to support anything. The Rufus Pollack article, which reads like a university research paper, is talking about liberalism in Italy in the mid-1800s. Liberal in Europe means something very different from liberal in the U.S. - definitely an apples to oranges comparison.
Leo Strauss is a philosopher who is considered by some to be the father of current neo-conservative thinking in the U.S. That would be like me telling you conservatism is dead and citing Arthur Schlessinger as my authority. You'd pay no attention and realistically, I shouldn't expect you to. The Mark J. Perry paper is about socialism, which is not the same as liberalism.

Hi folks from England, as a loyal subject of Her Majesty
maybe a word or two is allowed about how it feels. Its absolutely fine - and right for us, mind you I have faint doubts about Charles .... Only the Government opresses us these days. Did you know that there is another Monarch within the Commonwealth, the ruler of Tonga. And maybe also for Samoa?, thats the other part, you really ought to look up that story! Oh yes and why is there something familiar to me about the state flag? And is the name Dole familiar - in a historical context that is?
warmest regards

Stafford