I hope the murkiness is not spreading.

"Though voters famously claim distaste for negative campaigning (and those who sling the mud) they can't help but remember the message."
I honestly don't remember Hillary's "message".

I don't think it is bad for Bill Clinton to comment...BUT, when he spreads lies or misrepresents the truth I think it is even more damaging to our election process than it would be if he were someone else. He is a former President, and with that comes the responsibility of being credible.

The things he was saying about Obama were complete misrepresentation of the facts. I have liked Hilary but prefer Obama, but the things Bill has said since Nevada have REALLY made a negetive impression on me.

I think it's an interesting strategy albeit a little unfair given the circumstances, but the Clintons are well within the boundaries of what's "legal" for campaigning.

This quote from Ms. Dowd reflects my thoughts on the Clinton campaign: It’s odd that the first woman with a shot at becoming president is so openly dependent on her husband to drag her over the finish line.

Well put.

The thing is, the stuff he's said isn't nearly as bad as the media makes it look. Either way, people /think/ he's saying absolutely horrible things so it's bad for him and Hillary. Bill should stop lying about others.

And similar to Jillness, I too liked Hillary (actually a lot) until seeing her and Bill in action during this campaign. TOTAL turnoff. They can forget getting my full support!

She's obviously not strong enough to do it on her own. They're playing good cop/bad cop.

Hahaha... I just saw http://www.shutupbill.com/ on Digg earlier today, and now this!

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with him campaigning for his wife - but he's starting to spew slander and outright lies, which just makes him look bad - and it makes Hillary look like a calculating shrew who uses her husband to do the dirty work while she takes the moral high road.

bill needs to calm down he honestly does and be a little good boy. Maybe he's trying to make up for the humiliation he heaped on hillary but he's being a tad overzealous.

I can't figure out what the question is - is it about using her spouse or about negative campaigning?

clarient, that link is REALLY FUNNY!...and true, which only ups the funny factor.

Clarient, great link

I think it's sad that Bill is doing this. It's making him look awful and just another thing that will be used against him in the future.

***News Alert!**

According to Yahoo Clinton is calling for the delegates to be reinstated in Michigan and Florida!!!!!!! Umm...they were penalized by the Democratic PARTY for violating rules. They knew the consequences of their actions, and chose to move their polling days accordingly. If we have no order or rules of the primary/caucus system to go by, there will be mass chaos. Every state will continually move their date forward unauthorized in an attempt to be the first state to reap the economic benefits. Yes, change is needed in our voting system, but rewarding renegades is not the answer.

Not to mention, she is going against her party. She is going against her own word, which I am sure extreme members of the Republican Party will use against her. I don't think this is a good decision at all. Democrats have a bad reputation for being "weak", and "flipflopping" has become the favorite symptom of it. Even though I am an Obama supporter, I don't want Hilary to fumble. This scares me, frankly.

I think if he said nothing people would be speculating as to why he wasn't supporting his wife. Can/will be skewed as negative whether he talks or not. Remember how much flack Hillary took for quietly forgiving her husband for his indiscretion (which happens all the time with regular people). I say might as well talk.

I don't think it's any more unfair than Oprah stumping for Obama. Oprah has such crazy sway on buyers, ahem, voters that anyone she convinces may be voting for Oprah and not Obama.

Bill has every right, and plenty of experience to speak his mind openly and honestly, and heck, it's a free country folks!

I find it funny Hillary and Bill are being attacked for many of the same mechanisms used by the Obama campaign. All the times he has stretched the truth regarding Hillary are all fresh in my memory. People don't seem to like when their candidate gets slammed by an opponent. Whatever happened to the Clinton-Obama dream team?! By the way the campaigns are going, you would think they are from different parties.

Michelle Obama would never stoop so low. But...if she did, she would tear Slick Willy apart. I would pay to see that.

Um, if my husband was the former president of the United States of America, I'd allow him to campaign for me, too. Bill has BEEN there, he has the experience, and frankly, every right to campaign with/for her.

You're absolutely right, he does have the right and I so hope he keeps doing what he's doing because people in his own party are finally seeing the Clintons for what they are. Even John Kerry of all people thinks that he is going too far. That's just...well, put it this way, I never thought I'd agree with anything John Kerry said.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Bill Clinton helping out his wife. But the way it's working out- that I have a problem with. She can't afford to be seen as negative or nasty, so she has him do all the dirty work and take all the flak. What does he care? He's already had his day in the political sun.

Definitely good cop/bad cop, and to me it seems sleazy and underhanded.

Obama hasn't LIED about Hilary. Bill lied. They are not using the same campaign tactics.

As I said, I don't think it is bad that Bill comments, but he shouldn't intentionally misrepresent Obama. Voters deserve more than dishonesty when they are trying to make such an important decision.

politics is a dirty business not one of these people has clean hands, just cleaner hands.

I think honesty and full disclosure should be the order of the day. When Hillary layed Obama out with that statement she made about his representation of Rezko, I almost hit the floor. Talk about the height of hypocracy. Obama has an arsenal against her right at his fingertips and yet he doesn't stoop to her level. That is to be admired but there comes a time when the gloves have to come off. Especially when you're up against the Clintons.

I think you cross a very clear line when you lie. Maybe I do have too high of standards, but I honestly was disappointed.

The democrats are really all on the same team at the end of the day. Mistakes she makes now will carry over to the general election. For all of our sakes, she can't be blowing her credibility. I really want Obama to be the candidate because I have faith in his intelligence and wisdom. But if he isn't in the race, Hilary is the next in line for my vote. I really don't want her to mess things up...it isn't a question of my candidate against your candidate. Be respectable for the team.

Obama inspires people. He's polarizing and likeable. Then there's Hillary. Democrats stand a much better chance of winning back the White House with Obama as the nominee.

I guarantee you that Republicans are hoping she gets the nomination because what would they have on Obama - his "Present" votes? Seems like an easy decision to me.

I think it's kind of weird to think about Bill Clinton being in office again, because to an extent the first-lady or the first man in this case has huge influence, people like Lady Bird Johnson for example. I'm not saying it's bad, but this really brings up that thought in my head. Would that be bad for people or would his influence make people more likely to vote for her?

Poor Obama fans - they have to whine about something. Go Hillary!! Citizen I am surprised at you for not really checking out the facts on whether the information is false or not. Can you give us some examples of the statements Bill has said that is false?

Poor Obama fans - they have to whine about something.

really? isnt it true that hillary agreed to the casino thing it wasnt until the union endorsed obama that they complained. obama doesnt have a former president stumping for him, obama doesnt have his spouses coattails to ride upon, obama doesnt get to say "im above dirty politics" while his spouse spews venom throughout the campaign. i think "obama fans" have alot of reason to whine.

Hey Kaysnowboarder!

Nope, we didn't mention anything about whether the statements were true or not in the question (though I think some of the commenters did.) Just whether it was okay to use Bill as "the bad cop" given his former position—outsourcing the tough/personal campaigning to him so Hillary doesn't have to. That's all! Thanks for commenting

What's the difference between having Bill Clinton attack her enemies and Bush using 527 to attack Kerry? It might be wise, however, to rise above the fray because once you attack an opponent, you make yourself a target and sadly, Mr. Clinton makes a very easy one at that.

There were several things that Bill said that were untrue. On Keith Oberman the other night, he played 2 sets of clips that showed Bill making reference to something Obama said...and then he would play the actual Obama clip of what he really did say. There were intentional misrepresentations.

Here is one (I will post link in next comment):"Clinton said. "And then the next day he said, 'In the '90s the good ideas came out from the Republicans.'

He never said that. He said, ""The Republicans were the party of ideas for a pretty long chunk of time there over the last 10, 15 years."

There is a HUGE difference in these statements. Taken in context, Obama is saying that the Republicans have been an idea machine, while Democrats have not been as aggressive on getting their ideas to take hold. The biggest complaint during the Kerry and Gore elections was that Demcrats didn't stand for anything!! Of course they did, but that isn't what voters though as shown by 2 terms of Bush Jr. Obama was talking about the GENERAL ELECTION, and how to get a majority, not the policy that Regan passed. Regan got people to vote outside of their economic class, and that campaign strategy IS something that democrats should think about. It is so apparent by reading what he really said. I think to misrepresent the true context and to add the word "good" is certainly a lie.

It should also be noted that after they were called on the lie, the Clinton campaign changed their wording and removed the radio ads from South Carolina.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=4162996

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2008/01/23/clinton-goes-after-obama...

It is interesting that the first article gives Bill's quote, which is inaccurate, but they don't give the original Obama quote. The second article gives Obama's true quote, but they don't quote Bill's incorrect representation, only Hilary's newly modified one.

The fact is, none the less, that Bill incorrectly quoted Obama, and then Hilary's campaign ran with that.

"Poor Obama fans - they have to whine about something"

I actually feel worse for the folks that have to insult people who may think differently than them. Now that is sad.

Really is that the best you have? I would have to say - this is not the kind of wine you drink.

I think some of the banter in this thread is a perfect example of why politics in this nation are so screwed up. We can't even talk about an issue without calling people names. What does name calling do for anyone? All it does is increase the division that already exists between people with different beliefs. And it takes away from the issues because we end up investing time in being offended.

There is absolute credibility in asking people to provide examples of Bill lying. However, in my opinion, that credibility is lost once you start name-calling. Why not leave it respectful, and still make a great point? It is possible, despite what many of our political leaders would have us think!

And, onto the question at hand. I personally don't believe that Bill stumping for Hillary is the same as Oprah supporting Obama. I believe that endorsing a candidate is far different than coming out and speaking against an opposing candidate, especially if the statements are false. To me, that is an apples and oranges comparison.

To another point, someone mentioned that if Bill wasn't speaking up, people would wonder why he's NOT supporting Hillary. I agree with you, but I also don't think that means Bill has to be so negative. He can be a great supporter talking about how amazing Hillary would be as president and leaving out the slander. If he were doing just that, I think people would respect it more.

I actually saw a quote from Hillary yesterday that said she didn't want to play dirty, but that she just had to defend herself from Obama's dirty campaign attacks. That is just the sort of thing that makes me dislike her style of politics. She is trying to make it seem like Obama has been at her throat and that she's just a victim of his mudslinging.

The reality is that both sides are playing politics, and whether it's justified or not, Hillary's camp is getting especially slammed for going after Obama. As with many things in politics, perception is everything. And I would certainly say this is hurting the Hillary camp more than helping it.

Jonathan Chait puts it nicely and is backing up what some of us are trying to say:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-chait26jan26,0,7890763.column

"why did your two front runners spend two hours arguing about a dead man?" that is what my boyfriend asked me after the debates. the clintons have taken a page out of the karl rove handbook for presidential success, instead of focusing on the issues, focus on the weaknesses and for some reason likening yourself to reagan is a weakness. it bothers me that hillary is using bipartisianship to cut down obama "oh my god your like a republican, blah". doesnt hillary realize that she will never get the independent vote if she continues to position herself as the darling of the far left?

Geez grow some chops and broadan your shoulders. No one is calling anyone names. Just saying there is a lot of whining going on. You can not have it both ways.

Also, I think if Obama wants to play in the big leagues he better get use to it, especially when there are big issues and a national crisis around the corner. He brought up Walmart in the debate so he better beleive he is going to get it back. That is not the only thing he has brought up.

Also, some people on this site never do their research and do not put out credible facts when discussing issues so it is hard to take them seriously in a debate - and that is a fact.

I hope all of you are out volunteering - no matter who your candidate is and get involved in the democratic process. Then people will really take you seriously.

Ok now we can all sing koombahya -spelling?

Q.E.D.

i have seen the light kay

Yes please prove us wrong Kay, with your facts. In which you haven't provided as of yet. Which makes it difficult to have a discussion, or at least a civilized one.. jeez.

Hehehehe

Citizen, can you post the links I tried to post that were flagged...no porn, promise!

Interesting article grrrlyrebel! Thanks for sharing.

I do recall Obama playing on some of Hillary's alleged racially insentive remarks, which I think is completely out of line as well. To act like Obama has clean hands is naive. In fact, I'm disappointed in the democratic party. It has become more mudslinging on both sides than discussing the real issues at hand like the Iraq war, where our men are dying everyday, poverty, discrimination, health care. I think the Democratic Party should spend more time figuring out how to help America then sit there and call each other liers, likewise for us discussing the Obama-Clinton controversy.

I do recall Obama playing on some of Hillary's alleged racially insentive remarks, which I think is completely out of line as well. To act like Obama has clean hands is naive. In fact, I'm disappointed in the democratic party. It has become more mudslinging on both sides than discussing the real issues at hand like the Iraq war, where our men are dying everyday, poverty, discrimination, health care. I think the Democratic Party should spend more time figuring out how to help America then sit there and call each other liers, likewise for us discussing the Obama-Clinton controversy.

This afternoon, Bill Clinton was asked what is says about Obama if it takes 2 people to work against him. Bill responded that Jesse Jackson had won that state twice before.

Uhhh.....The question had nothing to do with race. Interesting that Bill went there.

Hillary and Bill will say and do anything to get back into the White House. That's what their opponents need to understand. They don't play fair. BTW - Just heard the Obama has won my state, go Obama! Can't wait to hear Hillary's consolation speech.

GO MCCAIN

GO MCCAIN