I usually just write off Minutemen as crazy old guys who hate anything different and want to feel important by keeping "foreigners" out of the country. In fact, a story on "The Daily Show" comes to mind, one where a "Minuteman" on the Canadian border is sitting in a lawn chair at the edge of his property with a rifle across his lap, watching for any rogue Canadian fence-jumpers who might be trying to cross over to America "for the health-care."
But you know, I can see where CitizenSugar has a point about the MCDC. I mean, it's good for the government to know what's going on at the borders so that they can make informed decisions about how to handle any future issues involving illegal immigration, and whether "fence-jumping" really is a problem that needs more attention, or if there might be other ways to help alleviate the issue besides building a giant wall on the Mexican border.
I also think it's good to have a non-governmental organization watching the border, so that the government can hopefully use its time handling more pressing issues that need its attention now. I don't think illegal immigration is our biggest problem at the moment, and though it's good to keep an eye on things, in my opinion we should be worrying about national healthcare, the condition of our public schools, the economy, and getting out of Iraq safely before we worry about immigration.
So in a nutshell, I think that it sounds like the MCDC does have merit, but that the Minuteman Project should rethink the way it handles border-patrolling.

I'm waiting for this to take off in other areas of former civil responsibility. "Metermen", in particular, for that jerk who always blocks my garage with his SUV, as long as we're deporting people.

Chica- I sure hope you don't think this-(snip)In fact, a story on "The Daily Show" comes to mind, one where a "Minuteman" on the Canadian border is sitting in a lawn chair at the edge of his property with a rifle across his lap, watching for any rogue Canadian fence-jumpers who might be trying to cross over to America "for the health-care."--is "real" reporting. While the Daily Show may have found one lone rogue on the Northern Border, huntin' him some Canadians, it's satire. Not all that want to protect the US from the influx of illegals (at either border) are yahoos.
For myself, come one, come all-as long as you do it legally.

wow.
this is so strange! and kind of ridiculous. but i am glad people are doing it because it's kind of what our country was built on, taking intiative in your own hands and the people's government and what not. people are standing up for their country, and i wouldn't do it, but whatever.

I was the unfortunate and indignant witness to several of the Minuteman Project members beating up peaceful protesters at Columbia university when Jim Gilchrist was speaking there. I watched a grown man - one of those people devoted to 'protecting America' from illegal immigration, slam a 19-year old college students head into a stage corner because she held a sign in Spanish that asserted her opposition to violence against illegal immigrants.

Believe whatever you want about immigration - that, I have no issue with. But the Minuteman Project is a group of vigilantes who are given a silent pass by Southern authorities to take up what the National Guard cannot do on its own - unfortunately, these people are NOT trained National Guard, and DO act out their personal vendettas and violent rages against anyone they come across.

There have been many cases of legal immigrants being persecuted by the MInuteman Project members, simply because they were Mexican - these men aren't professionals, they're civilian militias without any support from humane, intelligent Americans.

wow, this post makes me want to not read any further. i would suggest you do further research before writing about something you obviously know very little about. go to the new york times website and search for "minutemen." see if you feel the same way after you read a couple articles on them. it's a shame that you're posting to a very wide audience on a topic you need to do further research on. it's the bare minimum you can do.

I'm so dumbfounded by america's treatment of illegal immigrants. those people are actually working and doing jobs that noone else would ever do so it's weird how americans are so anti-them when you deport someone you odn't know what you are sending them back to, think of your worst nightmare only multiply it by ten. It's this treatment of immigrants legal and illegal that makes me want to be a human rights lawyer.

Not cool.
I completely agree with the three comments above mine.

A few objective points:

I have heard news stories recently featuring African Americans concerned that illegal immigrants are taking jobs that they want and need. (Also, remember that gray- and black-market workers drive the wages down for all of us.)

If a poor immigrant can get across the border with only a backpack carrying water and food, so can a terrorist with a briefcase nuke.

This is also a public health problem. We've already seen the return of tuberculosis and other diseases. Without some control, this is bound to continue and spread.

Lainetm. TB and other diseases are not necessarily brought in b illegal immigrants. Sexual tourism is thriving in the wolrd and Americans are buying into a large chunk of it who is to say that these diseases are not being brought in by American citizens themselves from trips abroad?? It makes me realy mad when people make statements like that. And terrorists don't need the border they have proven they can enter America in a number of ways and without being detected too. I'm sure right now there are many sleeper cells but people are targeting the wrong groups. You need to tightn security all around not only the borders.

Thank-you Nyara, Mina, Patbing and Missquiet... I honestly don't see what a group of untrained, riffle wielding people are going to do about National Security by "patrolling" the borders... and the comment about illegal immigration ruining America pretty much infuriates me... Yes, it is true that illegal immigrants take jobs that sometimes could be taken by others, but look at what happens in cities in which the Government decides to crack down on illegal immigrants and fine those who hire them... Whether you like it or not, illegal immigration has become part of the American economy and although I wish it weren't the case, I believe it will take a long time for this to come to an end and for everyone to be regularized. Illegal immigration is not an "issue" that only exists in the US, it is prevalent all over Europe. I won't speak of other countries which I don't know much about, but I'm sure Australia has a lot of illegal immigration as well. I wish that it were easier for immigrants to legally work here, but the Government has quietly allowed this because it is in some way beneficial... I'm sure if they really wanted to cut down on illegal immigration they would have done so a long time ago.

In any case, I'm sorry, but I'm not sure this country is ready to take things into it's own hands.. instead, people need to exercise their power over government and tell it what they really want!!

No, I do not support either of these Minutemen groups. The government is responsible for the border's security and it will only be a matter of time before these untrained civilians are injured in the ahem, "line of duty." It is a very dangerous job and there needs to be proper training involved.

I come from one of the border towns these Minutemen claim to patrol. The language they use on their website and materials is strategic...that's exactly how they recruit people into their organization. Taken on face value, the message sounds patriotic and reasonable. But I've seen the damaging effects of these groups. Not only do they undermine government efforts to secure the border, but they perpetuate an undercurrent of hate toward Mexicans in general...not just those crossing the border illegally. I agree that illegal immigration is a problem, and that a solution must be found. But this isn't it.

The Minutemen are bigoted loons, sorry. What about the Canadian border? Imagine if the situation was reversed and it was Canadians instead of Mexicans immigrating illegally. Would they care? The Minutemen are actually suing (or plan to sue, I forget which) their leader, who's hoarding away all their wall/fence money for himself! They had a special on CNN one night about it. The only wall they have up is some cow fence. The whole idea is completely absurd anyway, there's no way to block off the border, as much of it is private land owned by people who won't stand for it. Previous wall building attempts led to illegal immigrants being paid to build the wall! It's so ridiculous.

Illegal immigration is killing America? Illegal immigration is responsible for America, if you go back to when the white settlers massacred the Native Americans. America would fall apart without illegal immigration. The economy runs on their labor. Instead of freaking out over people who don't speak English or have brown skin, why doesn't the anti-immigration crowd go after the companies that hire illegal immigrants? I know if I had to provide for my family, and had to live in horrific conditions, I'd do the same things that Mexicans are doing. It's almost impossible to immigrate legally, if it were easier they'd do it. It's hard being separated from your family and trying to get by in a foreign country.

Sure, terrorists can cross the border illegally as well - but there are plenty of other ways of getting here besides the Mexican border. Wackos with guns patrolling the border won't stop terrorism or stop Mexicans from taking cheap labor jobs. If they really cared about the illegal immigration problem they'd put their attention towards the policies and practices that are the cause of the problem, rather than just attacking a symptom of the problem like the border.

To check out our interview with the Minuteman Project’s founder Jim Gilchrist tonight Wednesday, January 16, 2008 at 8pm EST go to http://thirdrailradio.com Feel free to call in and speak with him on-air.

While I disagree with a lot of the tactics and rhetoric of the MinuteMen, I can certainly feel their frustration.

I have to say that I don't think it's fair for people who don't live in areas affected by immigration to get so offended. I live in Southern Texas and I see firsthand what kinds of effects immigration has, legal or otherwise.

Firstly, the more illegal immigrants we have, the less legal immigrant the United States will permit. This affects immigrants from all over the world, not just Mexico. Sendly, illegal immigrants are without health care when they enter the country, and as a result most of them use the Emergency Room as their only form of care - and that costs hospitals millions of dollars a year.

Thirdly, illegal immigrants suck jobs from perfectly willing American citizens. They do NOT do jobs that regular Americans are 'unwilling' to do, they do jobs for WAGES that Americans are unwilling to accept. That puts more money in the hands of corporations and takes unfair advantage of immigrants who are often forced into extremely unpalatable working conditions. Plus, many of those illegal workers send their money directly back to family in Mexico, taking it directly out of the American economy and pumping it outside the country.

And you have to understand that Mexico has a completely different culture, one that does not mesh well with what many Americans consider our culture. Machismo is extremely important, and homosexuality is taboo. Immigrants are not joining the Melting Pot, they are instead establishing their own communities with extremely different traditions and norms, and it makes many Americans extremely uncomfortable.

With that said, I believe the United States needs to take better care of its borders. The MinuteMen exist because the Mexican border is porous and lets illegal immigrants through like a sieve. Eliminating the MinuteMen means eliminating the reason they have been established.

Our immigration laws also need a total overhaul. The process is ridiculously long and complicated, and needs to be streamlined so that people can easily immigrate if they so choose - and we can easily monitor and control that flow, making sure incoming immigrants are healthy, lawful future citizens with a rudimentary grasp of English.

1 - You're right. Hospitals do have to pay for what illegal immigrants have to come in for - but poor people cost hospitals BILLIONS of dollars - does this mean we should get rid of poor people in this country as well? Universal health care is a much better idea than targeting immigrants as the cause of this problem.

2 - Illegals do not work for wages in most cases - 'wages' insinuates a living wage, whereas 80% of illegal immigrants are working jobs for perhaps a quarter of the minimum wage in each state they are in. Tell me how many Americans would scoop crap off a barn floor for $1.50 an hour?

3 - Not part of the melting pot? Have you ever been to a major city in the United States? EVERY immigrant group that has ever entered this country spends about 50-100 years as its own community before even thinking of branching out into the American public. I suppose those of German descent in this nation should be vilified because they only lived in small communities for the first 100 years of this nation after they came here, right? And the Amish - oh man, the Amish have to go for sure... they have NEVER conformed to what we think of as "American".

I agree with you in your last sentiment, clarient, that immigration reform needs to happen to open up our borders to those in need and those who desire to immigrate into this country. It needs to happen to protect America, and to protect the rights of immigrants. Rudimentary grasp of English? I could live in almost any major city in this country without knowing a word of English and still live decently. I think perhaps Americans should be encouraged to be bi- or multi- lingual, as most other countries encourage - Mandarin is the language used most in international business... perhaps we should all be speaking Chinese in order to be part of the international community, right? I'm not American by birth, and I refuse to ascribe only to those ideals that some Americans do - that everyone should speak MY language, that everyone should be the way I am, that everyone should have to PROVE their Americanness. I encourage you, clarient, to consider how ironic it is that you point out a population a twentieth the size of the entire population of the South and Midwest is detrimental because they're too macho and think homosexuality is wrong - catch my drift?

Wow, thank you again Mina.

When our student's education is being sacrificed for the benefit of Spanish speaking students, as it is in my city, there is a problem. We have had children turned away from the public school they were categorized to attend, because they did NOT speak Spanish.

Also, I agree with what the MinuteMen are doing. We may have trained National Guard on our borders, but what good does it do, when their training teaches them to turn and run the other way when they feel threatened by a border hopper? I know this because my sister-in-law spent 8 months on the Texas border.

The wages that illegal aliens are paid are so low because they have accepted them for so long, so that's what those employers expect to pay them. If the illegal aliens were deported, the wages would go up, because the people paying those wages would be unable to find workers willing to be paid sh*t. To be honest, we don't have to deport them at all. Just change the laws to not benefit them, and they will go to where the laws do benefit them.

Summer break from school was created so that the students could get summer jobs harvesting, or help their parents on the farm. Remember, that's how we survived for all those decades without their employment. Not to mention, what kind of damage will it ultimately cause to have a craft such as home building lost to an entire generation of Americans?

There have been reports that state that allowing all the illegals (of which we don't really know the number since they're undocumented) to stay and become citizens and collect social security would absolutely bankrupt our economy, because you know it's in great shape now.

Now, everyone go ahead and hate on me and report me for being malicious... blah, blah, blah!

Brandy, I don't think you're malicious, I think you're ill informed. It's the case with the majority of Americans, so I can't really call you out on it - it's not your fault.

However, your sister having been on the border does not mean you've ever had experience with the extreme violence the Minuteman Project utilizes - now, if she utilized this sort of violence, THEN I'd think you're a little off your rocker for supporting it. I encourage you to look into the cases brought against the Minuteman in America, BY AMERICANS before you laud their efforts at the border.

The only thing you could call me out for being ill-informed on are the MinuteMen in general. I agree with them, because they are not just sitting around talking about what should be done, they are stepping up and taking action, even if it is not in a positive way, atleast someone is doing something that is preventing illegals from crossing. If they hurt a few illegal immigrants along the way, so be it, they just counter for those that put out water for them. A friend of mine has a uncle who owns land along the border. He has a camera set up by his corn feeder to catch photos of deer eating. Most of the time, the only thing he gets a shot if is the illegal immigrants eating the feed corn. That's stealing! They aren't paying him for the corn they are eating!
Everything else I made a statement on is not being ill-informed. I live in Texas, and we get a lot of the illegal immigration effect here that people who do not live in a border state could possibly understand.

Brandy i agree with everything you are saying here. Except I will add to Mina, who is going to pay for the universal health care for Illegals? I am not, nor should I be expected to. I don't believe in Socialism as is, never mind paying for people who are not citizens of this country. Do you think if I go to Canada, they give me free health care because they have universal health care? I think not. But hey I have no problem if people want to pay for illegal immigrants health care make donations or maybe the government can take a tax for those who want to pay? But don't take my hard earned money.

Honey, I lived in a border state - I understand. And you're right, you ARE ill informed on the Minutemen - they're not just hurting illegal immigrants, they're hurting LEGAL citizens of all ethnicities - including getting into scuffles with the National Guard. I encourage you to go to your local library and search some past newspaper articles so you can learn about this.

Actually, cine, if you go to Canada, Britain, France, etc (countries with universal health care) - you ARE eligible to receive their care at a discounted rate. I broke my toe in Paris two years ago, went to a hospital, had it set and taken care of, and I was charged 5 Euro for the entire visit, including some pain meds from the doctor. Universal health care does not mean FREE for everyone - it means free for those who pay for it, but it certainly helps the cost of those who can not, because it also includes regulation of the health care system and prescription medicine - so the prices don't get too high.

But this isn't really the place to discuss it - feel free to message me if you'd like to continue this.

Agreed that this is not really the place, but I just want to answer your statement. Yes if you have an EMERGENCY in one of those countries they will cover the cost with little pay from you. But that is an EMERGENCY. That is not you sneaking into a country to give birth or any other variety of reasons and having them flip the bill. If you try to do this in Canada they will reject you.

I definitely agree that there needs to be a health care reform and regulations, but I am completely against socialized health care, and even more so for non-citizens of this country.

Don't call me honey. I'm not your dog, husband, or child! You can read my name, if you want to make a remark towards me, use my name. Not some stupid little pet name you use for your boyfriend.