Boy did that man make himself look bad. There is a time and place to disagree with the president but not when he has the floor to speech. What an idiot. But he was from South Carolina. They still have the confederate flag flying there.

I CANNOT believe Obama. He wants to makes this a socialist country. Do WE want the government to decide when, where and how we get our health care? NO!

Johnnie - they fly the confederate flag at their state capital building there! It's awful. I couldn't believe it the first time I ever visited Columbia (to go to the zoo).

Ugh, I wasn't a fan of Bush in the slightest but I always felt he deserved the utmost respect and used to get upset when I saw people behaving poorly towards him. It's sad that any president would be disrespected in this way.

call me old fashioned but regardless of how you feel about Obama and his ideas, the office of the president deserves respect. that congressman made an ass of himself.

Anonymous comment #2 - I fail to see how the Obama administration would be taking away your freedom to choose your own health care when they plan on giving you another option to choose from. More choices typically mean more freedom? It's not like the government is forcing you to "choose" the public option.

In regards to Rep. Wilson's remarks, while I value our first amendment right to free speech, I think there is a time and place for such remarks, and disrespecting the president during his speech wasn't appropriate at all. Is there something in the South Carolina water making their politicians become a-holes?

Tara -
With what Obama is planning we will be paying for the health care of those who are lazy, on welfare and do not work.. these people in turn are taking away the opportunity for those who PAY for health care to get to see a doctor they want and be able to be treated by any doctor at any time with whatever meds you may need.

The government will choose when, where, who and why you will get the medical treatments you get.

Ex. Your 80 yr old pop pop will not be treated over a teenager who has the same health problem bc the teenager is younger. The government will be choosing who gets the help and who doesn't.

I truly believe Obama is bad for this country. He is nothing but a celebrity and is going to take this country down. He already hired people who agree with a communist government.

AntiChrist? I don't put it past him

Oh Gods, Republicans. You give us eight years of Bush, and then act like 6 year olds when the country puts an adult back in office. Put a sock in it. This is just asinine behavior.

Just so you know, my "pop pop" as you put it, was denied coverage because his health insurance company deemed his treatment "experimental." (It's funny how the same treatment can be labeled experimental for one patient but not for another patient.) That wasn't the government denying him help, it was the insurance company that he PAID for to prevent having to pay for costly procedures on his own.

Additionally, my mom's mother, who was a Canadian citizen, received top rate treatment for her diabetes and psoriasis. Health insurance companies would've deemed her uninsurable in the US, as they did with my dad's mother, who died of a brain tumor shortly after her diagnosis when she was unable to receive affordable treatment.

So please stop spouting off your nonsense about socialized health care. From first-hand experience, I can say with confidence that our system is broken. The status quo can't continue.

More and more, the anon comments prove they're people hiding behind their stupidity, ignorance, and hatred!

The comments being discussed was whether or not the SC Representative was being disrespectful.

I wish the anon comments would stop spreading lies and hatred. Antichrist - seriously? And oh yes - we're all going to go on the same health care plan and there will be death squads, people choosing your healthcare, and lines for miles to get help at the hospital, and gas chambers for the elderly. Seriously - people who repeat stuff they hear without even checking to see if it's true or reading up on it so they can make an INFORMED, EDUCATED decision make me sick.

"The fundamental problem with Mr. Obama's plan is the premise that health care is a "right" that must be guaranteed by the government. Health care is a need, not a right. Rights are freedoms of action, not automatic claims on goods and services that must be produced by another. Attempting to guarantee an alleged "right" to health care must necessarily violate actual individual rights and will destroy the American economy in the process."

I agree with *Spacekat*

"Oh Gods, Republicans. You give us eight years of Bush, and then act like 6 year olds when the country puts an adult back in office. Put a sock in it. This is just asinine behavior."

This man acted immaturely. And I don't think the confederate flag should be flying over the state capital either, it's 2009 and millions want it taken down for obvious reasons.

"It is economically disastrous. The estimated cost of the proposed government health care program threatens to crush our economic recovery with mountains of debt, higher taxes on businesses and individuals, rising inflation, higher interest rates, slower job growth, and continued stagnation."

Tara -

You are comparing apples to oranges here. Let the private insurance companies, patients and doctors decide who they want to treat. NOT the government.

What's frustrating is people who blame asinine behavior on Republicans or Democrats. He didn't harass the president because he's a Republican, he harassed him because he was being an immature and inconsiderate person. People who blame it on the party are uninformed and childish- There have always been Dems that have yelled rude things at previous presidents... Shouldn't everyone deserve a little respect in a setting like this one? It's not about "sides", it's about common sense and manners.

Tara -

Although I cant say one way or the other if this is a good idea.. .if Obama's plan goes through our health care system will technically be "socialist" So whether you like the word or not that is what it will be.

For all you anon commentators out there - have you ever had an illness while being uninsured through no fault of your own? Or had coverage or a procedure denied because of a pre-existing condition?

My husband was born with a deformity (an extra artery around his right kidney) and as he got older, the artery didn't grow with the kidney and it ended up strangling the kidney. He was 22, had a full time job with health insurance from his employer that he had to pay towards. Well he started getting sick and ended up hospitalized and needing a very serious kidney surgery, without which he would have died - the insurance he was paying for wouldn't cover it because it was a birth defect. Luckily, his doctor agreed to waive his fees and perform the surgery. My husband walked away with a $230,000 medical bill that we will be paying off for most of our lives and that doesn't even include the doctor fees.

If you think health care is working fine the way it is - I hope that someday you are put in a situation to see what happens to good, hard working citizens when the private health care companies decide to choose your fate and deny coverage. The reason health insurance companies are private is because they're in health care to make a profit - that's ALL they care about - the profit margin.

Yoga,

Your husband wouldn't have been able to see the doctor at all with this plan. He would have been waiting in line for 5 years.

Then why bother paying for insurance if the private companies won't insure you anyway? My question is, what happens to the people who, like my dad, work very hard and pay for insurance only to be denied? Where do they go? Who can they turn to? Or do they just have to wait it out in pain and misery until they die?

I would honestly like to know what you would propose as an alternative. While I disagree with you about the public option, it doesn't mean that we can't agree on other changes. I would hate for anyone to have to go through what my dad has been through, but I would be interested to know what you would do in that situation.

LizM, I have no problem calling it socialized medicine.

Our entire system needs overhauled - the unnecessary tests ran so doctor's can cover their butts should somebody decide to sue over them missing a diagnosis; denying coverage to people for existing conditions; not covering preventative medicine - even though in the long run it saves money. There are so many problems in the health care industry today - it's sad but true that one bill won't be able to fix it. But it's time we start looking at solutions on how to get out of the mess we're in. People shouldn't have to go bankrupt to pay for their cancer treatments. There are thousands of stories out there of people who thought they had good health insurance only to realize the insurance companies walked out on them when they needed it most.

And no I dont' believe he would be waiting for 5 years. I think that is propoganda spread by people/companies who are opposing the changes because they either are in the health care industry and don't want their profits cut into or more regulations/oversight or are politicians who are being lobbied by those health care industries.

I'm sorry but i am unwilling to pay for anyone's health insurance but my own... especially those who are lazy and are no working. God that pisses me off.

YogaforLife, my heart breaks reading that story. Unfortunately, it's the story of so many other people out there. It's sad that so many people have been so propagandized into believing things that enable the insurance industry to take advantage of us. We simply must overhaul the system.

You will be waiting a long time for tests and treatment. The only thing you don't have to wait very long for in Canada is an initial doctor's visit, after that well, you spend more time waiting then anything. Canada has free health care and people have to wait six months to a year for MRI's, and that's even with many hospitals having their MRI machines run for a lot longer then anywhere else. People in Canada die because if this socialized health care. And this is the truth. And think Canada only has a population of 33 million while the US has a population of over 300 million. Canadians travel down to the US to get tests and treatment because they have to wait so long here. Socialized health care creates more problems then solutions, just saying.

Thanks Spacekatgal - people do what they have to do to survive. We're lucky because he didn't have to claim bankruptcy since he was given a monthly payment we can afford - we'll just be paying for 20 or 30 years (can't remember which?).

I get so pissed when people make ignorant comments about not wanting to overhall healthcare because like anon 22 said "i am unwilling to pay for anyone's health insurance but my own... especially those who are lazy and are no working".

The system needs overhalled because it doesn't work for the majority of American's, especially the middle class. It's the people who are working, have and pay for health insurance that are most often the ones who get screwed by the current health care system. You make enough money, you can afford the best coverage and can afford all the medical treatments. If your poor enough, you can get free health insurance through government programs or at least at a reduced fee. If your poor and uninsured, the hospital cannot turn you away without treatment. The hospital swallows the cost and passes it on to people who can afford to pay. It's the middle class - people not poor enough to qualify for government handouts but not rich enough to pay for all the costs of treatments out of pocket and need health insurance that are getting ripped off, denied, turned away.

AMEN to TVJUNKIE! Speak the truth.

tvjunkie- while I agree that waiting times for specialized procedures can be long, I believe the waiting times you listed are slightly exaggerated. MRIs rarely take 6-12 months to administer. I believe the average wait time for an MRI is between 3 - 10 weeks (though you can check the Canadian health care system website and correct me if I'm wrong).

Also, while I don't deny that Canadians come to the US for various procedures, the ratio of Canadians seeking US treatment is smaller when compared to Americans seeking treatment abroad.

Umm..Why would Americans seek treatment abroad???

We have the best and brightest doctors and treatment.. which is why everyone comes here! Also bc we aren't socialist! yet...

You know, I really don't mind having a meaningful debate with other members, but these anonymous comments really make it difficult for me to want to participate in such a discussion. Unless you have something of substance to add to the debate, please go back to your cave, troll.

I totally agree with you, Tara. If the right-wingers are so proud of their ideology, why won't they stand up and put their name to their ideas? I think it's because they know their political philosophy is mean-spirited, selfish, and will gain them resentment from people here at Tressugar. I am all for abolishing anonymous comments.

Janeane Garafolo used to speak on Majority Report about the withered, fearful nature of the soul of the conservative. I think it's really exemplified in the debate on health-care reform. They can't be bothered with facts or logic, they only respond to fear.

How does that not add to the debate? You made a comment, I responded to it.. yet you have no answer? Probably bc your statement made no sense.

I absolutely agree with amelioratelj - regardless of party, there are people who are just rude and inappropriate. I hate seeing either party painted with a brush just because one person is out of line/has their head up their butt.

I dont want to sign up with an account! whats the difference! You are mad bc your theories have been refuted. It has nothing to do with what political party you are.

And Janeane Garafolo?! Are you serious, cmon!

Oh Spacekat. You just can't hack someone refuting your statements. And Janeane Garafolo?! Who the hell cares what she has to say!?

Oh wait oh wait Democrats take their political advise from celebs. Almost forgot.

Anon - please provide links to studies and papers supporting your position. You have not backed up your viewpoint with any information.

For people with situations like my husband's, you never addressed why we should keep healthcare the way it is now. Please, give me a good reason why health care does not need some form of reform. I'd be glad to hear why you think my working, insured husband deserved to be denied by his insurance provider on a life-or-death surgery? And why we must now spend the rest of our lives paying for that surgery? Why did we pay to have health insurance in the first place if we knew this was going to happen?

tara - These wait times are true, I grew up in Canada and experienced the waiting first hand. I've had many family and friends have to wait this 6 months or more for an MRI, one has been waiting now for eight months. And it is not just in one part of the country it's all over, and it's only gotten worse over time.

I wish it was a way for Obama and his people to just pass what is fair and forget all those who oppose. I say stop going from place to place trying to convince people who are obviously not going to listen and don't want to compromise no matter who (Dem or Rep) that's sensible places a good plan on the table.

The people who are fortunate enough to have all they need don't want other people to be just as happy. Thats greedy.

Anonymous #32 I'm assuming your question was, "Umm..Why would Americans seek treatment abroad???"

Americans who seek treatment abroad do so for a variety of reasons, one of which is because private companies won't cover the cost of the procedures they need. Also, many uninsured Americans go abroad for simple surgeries for problems that are not life-threatening. Another reason they go abroad for health-care reasons, especially to Canada, is to buy prescription medication at vastly cheaper costs. The same is true with medical marijuana, which is illegal in many states but legal in Canada.

tvjunkie- If you don't mind my asking, what part of Canada did you grow up in? I'm just curious. No worries if you're not comfortable answering. I just find it interesting because my mom's side of the family is from Quebec, and my uncle had to get an MRI last year and was seen in about 8 weeks if my memory serves me right. I hope your friend gets seen soon.

I just want to reiterate that I agree with you that wait times are long in Canada. It's not a perfect system, by any stretch of the imagination. I do feel, however, that something like a public option would be beneficial in the US, not only for the uninsured, but for those people like my father who can't get treatment even though he pays for private health care. I guess I'd rather him endure a long wait in order to get his procedure done, versus not being able to have it done at all, or at least, at an exorbitant price.

tara - Ontario, more specifically Toronto as well as Manitoba.

And I agree that there is nothing wrong with a public option for those who really need it, and can't get the health care they need anywhere else. But it has to be highly regulated to ensure that there is no abuse from either the public or those who deliver the health care. On the other hand you don't want to wait even a few months for tests that, if a person had sooner, could save people's lives.

tvjunkie, I just want you to know that I really appreciate the informative, intelligent discussion. If only congress could act in such a civilized manner, and I'm talking about both sides alike haha. Oh well. I agree that it needs to be highly regulated. It's going to be a long process before we can shape it to where it needs to be, but we can't hold off on health care reform for much longer. Hopefully it happens during this administration.

There is so much wrong with this health care bill I wouldn't know where to start. But none of that matters because of one point...

Obamacare or whatever you want to call it IS unconstitutional.
Last I checked republicans, democrats, and independents were all suppose to still believe in that, right? It is unconstitutional for the government to force the people to pay for health insurance you have the right to not be insured.

Space- Really?!?

My "ideology" is neither mean spirited nor is it selfish. Before attacking an ideology perhaps you should understand it.

Conservatives aren't against giving, they are against the government forcing them to give where the government sees fit. Conservatives are for smaller government, a trust in the people. I think this quote sums up why...
"a government large enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take everything you have."

Also before throwing out shinanigans about conservatives being selfish you should do a little research. Conservtives donate more money, time, and blood when compared to liberals. Stop listening to crazy Garafolo there are real studies out there available at your fingertips.
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Zjg2ODYwNzdkZDhhYzkwNzM3YThlOTY2ZTh...

Anonymous said: "I'm sorry but i am unwilling to pay for anyone's health insurance but my own... especially those who are lazy and are no working. God that pisses me off."

Sorry, Anonymous, but you're doing just that right now. Poor people who are sick and without health insurance don't go to the doctor. Until they are very very very sick, almost dying. And then the hospital is legally obliged to treat them. After something that would have been really cheap to treat early on - this becomes really expensive when it gets out of hand.

And who pays for that? Hospitals? Well, not really - they spread out the cost to people like you. And me. Yup, Anonymous, you're paying for people without insurance right now.

And if those poor sick people had health insurance they'd go to the doctor before things got really bad - and expensive for all of us.

Totally agree, Spacekatdude. This is why I married you - you're so leftistly awesome. Welcome to the Sugar network!

KJerabek said: "Obamacare or whatever you want to call it IS unconstitutional.
Last I checked republicans, democrats, and independents were all suppose to still believe in that, right? It is unconstitutional for the government to force the people to pay for health insurance you have the right to not be insured."

So... is it unconstitutional for people to be legally obligated to carry car insurance? I'm not sure about your state, but here in Massachusetts, we are. A cop told me he could have written me a ticket for not having car insurance (I did, but I didn't have the paperwork with me).

Health insurance - like car insurance affects all of us. If you don't go to the doctor because you don't have health insurance, and then you get me sick, then your problem becomes my problem, and society's problem.

Right on, Spacekatdude. It's the same in Texas. We are required to carry at least liability coverage car insurance if we own a car.

As far as health care, It's not like it's going to become completely socialized. And if it prevents insurance companies from taking advantage of people and dropping them when they need it the most, then I applaud it. I find it disgusting that companies would drop people who need it the most at the moment where they need it.

As for that anon who said people who are on welfare are selfish, lazy asses....show your face to me. I had to go on SSI with Medicaid a few years ago (Yes, HAD to. I had bills to pay) because no one would hire a deaf college student. Not even for summer employment. When I graduated college last year, I kept applying for jobs, I kept going for interviews. I never got a call from those places I interviewed at. Why? I assume it's 'cause they could surmise that I couldn't hear, or had a good amount of difficulty hearing. I can't prove it, but yeah. Over one year later, I'm finally working, only it's temp jobs that I'm working.

If you call that being lazy....well, I don't want to meet someone who you think is NOT being lazy.

As for the other comments...it is true that the middle class can't afford it. An example (not so recent, though..this happened when I was 2) is my parents. When I was about two, I got sick with meningitis, ended up in the ICU for at least a couple of weeks, then after that, my father got sick with pneumonia if I'm not mistaken, then after that, Mom was already pregnant with my brother, she then got sick with pneumonia, and she ended up giving birth to my brother early due to her being sick, and being hospitalized. Dad had a job that paid well, but not enough to pay for all the costs of the bills that had racked up in a five, six month period of time. So they ended up declaring bankruptcy due to all the money they owed to the hospital and the doctors, and the insurance didn't even cover most of it if I recall correctly. It's probably not the best example of how messed up the health care system was in the late 80s, and well, it's gotten worse since then.

Is having to have car insurance unconstitutional in order to drive a car?

No, because the government is not forcing everyone to have insurance. You have the choice to not drive and not have insurance.

Now if the government said everyone must have automobile insurance even if you don't drive, ride, or even leave your home, then yes it would be unconstitutional and at that point it would be comparable to health insurance plan.

Do you understand how they are not comparable where the constitution is concerned?

.

Also Spacedude i found what you said here very interesting...

"Sorry, Anonymous, but you're doing just that right now. Poor people who are sick and without health insurance don't go to the doctor. Until they are very very very sick, almost dying. And then the hospital is legally obliged to treat them. After something that would have been really cheap to treat early on - this becomes really expensive when it gets out of hand"

Because this is exactly what the republicans in congress are saying. Have you read the bill they proposed to fix health care by chance? The republicans want to do more in preventative care while as Obama said in his speech the democrats want to cut back on preventative care.