Yikes. I think this is different from male circumcision since the male can still enjoy sex, and it makes things easier to keep clean.

Definitely cringed. Couldn't help it! But I have to admit that I've never really thought about male circumcision in the same way that I think about female circumcision. I believe, and I could certainly be wrong, that in men's cases, being circumcised can lead to LESS infections and problems because the foreskin is being removed. Which is a good thing. I suppose I'll have to think a little more about this issue!

Also - there's a spelling mistake in the post - it should read "cut off" and not "cut of".

I had a professor do an entire lecture series on FGM and it was really powerful.

As to your questions, male circumcision is done for cleanliness and for religious reasons. Rarely does it cause the complications that FGM does. Also when done to a male it is done while he is a baby and unable to remember the procedure. FGM is usually done in horribly unclean conditions and to girls who know full-well what is going on.

In my opinion FGM is much, much worse.

Nevermind, my brain was on the fritz.

IMO it's barberic, period.

I agree with jmmst49.
I read a very disturbing article in McClans magazine about a year ago regarding FGM. Before that, I had neevr even heard about it (and I was 19).
Thank you for posting this to make other women (and men) aware of what is going on.

THere is a real good book out there called Infidel. She talks about her own personal circumcision and they don't just snip skin in some cultures. They sometimes sew you up where your piss dribbles out. The sound of a school age girl can bring you major harrassment because the other girls will call you dirty. Then, on the wedding night, some girls have to be cut so the guy can get it in.

There is so much fricken injustice to women in the ME and people don't know. I'm glad the word is getting out now. I discovered it back in the late 80s due to a school project.

i think that is awful.. i feel it is some type of control going on..

"Female circumcision" is regarded as the equivalent of partial castration, NOT male circumcision. Many girls die during the procedure which generally occurs sometime before puberty but not in infancy. The labia minor and clitoris are removed, almost always in an unhygienic setting. The whole areas is stitched together and a tiny space is left for blood to flow through during menstruation. The area, which heals together, is reopened on a woman's wedding night, by her mother or mother-in-law. Many "circumcised" women have incredibly painful sex and die in childbirth.

I'm all for relying on your own cultural norms, but eliminating functions in the way that nature intended, childbirth included, is not one I can ever accept.

These procedures will continue. It's been banned in many countries, but it still happens. It happens in the US as well. A man just got several years for performing the procedure on his toddler.

GREAT POINT Niger! I don't think that male circumcision is the same as fgm. First of all the word 'mutilation' is in that name, that is bad to begin with! Also, circumcision is done on babies, so they can't remember the pain. Girls are able to feel it more and remember it because they do it at around age 11. Also, when dealing with males it's a matter of hygiene. A male friend of mine who is Irish is no circumcised and if he doesn't clean it thoroughly everyday (sometimes twice a day if it's hot or he worked out) it will start to smell and bacteria thrive. I will definitely circumcise my son when he is born.

Hey... trace face... not a nice comment there.

As regards the male circumcision: I find it horrible that it is so common in the US. After all it started in a time when the personal hygiene was different. Nowadays this is not at all an issue. In Europe there is nearly nobody circumcised (expect for religious reasons of course, but it remains the minority) and I never heard of any medical problems. Besides, I have heard, that men which remain natural are much more sensitive in that area and therefore enjoy sex better.

It is nature which knows best in my opinion - and that's it.

Personally I had one boy-friend who was jewish and therefore circumcised and to tell you the truth, I was shocked when I first saw him naked! He seemed "mutilated" to me.

mimoreno, just saw your comment.
About your irish friend - sorry, but this is not true (at least not for the majority of uncircumcised males). They do not smell neither more or less than other people. It depends on the person.

tinywhale- i couldn't agree more. i'm from europe too and hardly anybody's circumsized there. my boyfriend's german and he isn't and we've never had any hygiene problems in that respect. i really don't see the point of male circumcision.

as for the main topic of this thread. female circumcision is barbaric. there's some really good books out there that i recommend, personal accounts for the most part. the really scary thing is that it's mostly mothers and grandmothers who do it to girls. not the men.

Dear - where is that stat about 97% of married women being circumsized from? Are they referring to the world, or just to Egypt, or to developing nations?

Nigerienne - great comment, I completely agree that female genital mutilation cannot be equated with male circumcision on the grounds that the process interferes with childbirth and often causes death. How many deaths occur as a result of female genital mutilation? How many as a result of male circumcision?

On another note, the pleasure aspect..

I think this practice is disgusting, but I also think wearing the burka is disgusting, so sue me.

I think the nuking thw hwole Me is a great idea too! Too bad we have a bunch of wooses running the gummit, and Im not talking about the pres. He would have done it a long time ago if it wasn't for the rest of the crappy peeps in washington.

omg, please do not say BOMB THE MIDDLE EAST!!! that's just insane and makes whoever says it sound ridiculously ignorant!

when Europeans were fighting off plagues caused by their own nasty sanitation issues and burning "witches" at the stake, the Middle East area had many advanced civilizations that were producing great art, advancements in astronomy and science and building magnificent buildings. did you know that the first writings were in Mesopotamia (now Iraq)? Pyramids anyone? What about the great empire of Persia?

PLEASE STOP WITH THE IGNORANCE.

yes, female circumcision is absurd and needs to be abolished and i'm SOOO happy that the govt. of Egypt came to its senses and got rid of it. however, please don't come up here and start talking nonsense about how an entire region of people (99% of whom are NOT terrorists) should be blown to bits when they're just trying to live their lives? sheez!

hey nica, i understand what you are saying, but you do realize that the majority of the 1% of terrorists do come from there? And that's one reason they have bomb sniffing dogs patrolling the metro stations this morning? I just assume bomb the whole middle east then get a little scared every moning on my way to work...sorry. ignorant as that is guess what...it would mostly solve the problem. Mostly.

Oh, and, this may be innappropriate, but when i see men frmo the middle east, i immediately ask myself if they are terrorists or not. ever since 911. ever since i saw the pics of men who took those planes to there crash sites.

I am not the only one.

And, i realize what i am saying is extreme...so what? sure i may not actually think that bombing it is a good idea, but, it could work.

clearly cravin, you watch too much mainstream tv and acquire your news from mainstream media.. do you seriously think that bombing the middle east to smithereens will do anything besides for create ripples of devastating instability across the world? Have a little compassion and think positive!

let me clarify, it's evident to me how cravin et al. have acquired their facts regarding recent attacks.. my comment is not meant personally, but rather is larger critique on how easily we swallow the information fed to us.

well as someone from Egypt I think it would be great to share the Egyptian Point of view
this daring decision was taken thank God after the great recommendation of the Grand Mufti of the Egyptian State Ali Goma to ban the female circumcision as it is against the Islam , for decades some thought it was from the Islam but it was not it came from Africa ,already the only Arabic Muslim country that allows is Yemen and this is due to the African influence there from Ethiopoa
already the custom for a long time was considered more social tradition than religious
About the boys circumcision , well this is a different thing ,
First of all it is a religious tradition just like other ,Islam calls for it just like other religions
second and this is for the record there is no danger in it in the process itself as the female circumcision
already the WHO considered the Male circumcision as another way to combat AIDS in Africa , of course it is not the perfect weapon
So Dear Sugar we don't think that you are doing a crime because we do Male Circumcision
About 97% it is not in Egypt , it is in Africa , simply because the educated high and middle class stop to circumise their daughters from decades,my mom and aunt were not circumised nor did their cousins

Curious question what brought Female Circumcision to terrorism and bombin the middle east??

Well, I will tell you where i get my opinion from. Who piloted the air planes that hit the World Trade Center and the Pentagon? What am I supposed to think when the security warning is ornage, and when i go to the metro station (subway) there are people walking around with machine guns and a bomb sniffing dog?

It didn't happen before 9-11...so I am going to go with my gut and say, if we destroy the source, the symptoms will disappear.

And, as a disclaimer, while i do think most of the islamic fundamentalists come from the middle east, i don't think nuking or bombing the ENTIRE middle east is a good idea. I enjoy arguing, and playing devil's advocate. however, i do think a well placed bomb in pakistan, iran, and iraq would do some good, rather than letting roadside bombs kill hundreds of troops and innocent iraqis, etc.

I read a longer story yesterday on this and wanted to add that the 97 is a disputed number and the Egyptians says it is less than 30 percent but for southern egypt where the number is higher. By banning it is a regulation for it to be banned by the government it needs to be passed by their congress and that takes time. According to that other article, and I only remember a bit, the regulation is really not going to stop it since there is no real punishment and it cannot really regulated. In fact, as I recall it, they stated there was a prohibition before but then people started going to outside villages to get it done (think wire hanger abortions here in the 50's) and they figured having it available killed less people. I really do hope they find the answer because this procedure is archaic. I hope change does occur now and now that religion is involved perhaps-- both the Muslim clerics and christians were also advocating that it be stopped as well because no good religious person should mutilate children. Let me see if I find that article.....

Omg. That is torturous.

Oh boy just read cravinsugar's comment -- I do not want to get into religion on this website but islam is a peaceful religion there are fundamentalists on every religion and I do agree with Zeinobia, how is the problem of female circumcision that is rampant in Africa and other both muslim and christian third world countries, have to do with terrorism let alone blowing some parts of the middle east?

we need to outlaw male circumcision as well: pointless, useless, mutilation. look at the research, people, it's not necessary!!!

katie, i am happy my man is circumsized. and i will circumsize any sons i may have. it makes it easier for men to stay clean, and it even helps stop the spread of some std's since the bacteria can't live under the foreskin.

and, everyone, I was not the one that brought up the bombing thing. I was simply adding to it. If you read up, you will see the comment that put together both female circumsision and crazy in the middle east. that person then said the crazies in the middle east should be nuked. Please read my disclaimer on a previous comment though.

and, yes, there are fundmentalists in every religion, HOWEVER, you don't see any Christian fundamentalists from the us hopping aboard planes and ramming them into buildings of other countries, to "kill the infidels" do you?

Didn't think so.

so in comment #10, a poster said "this is totally insane. People in the middle east are friggin ANIMALS living in a time-warp delusion where they think this, honor killings (total BS), and chopping peoples heads off is acceptable. We need to nuke the whole area."

CravinSugar then latched onto that idea and agreed and then i disagreed with bombing the Middle East. so that's where the whole thread came into play even though, yes, it is not related to this particular topic. Sorry about that, but when i see something like that, it just seethes me to no end!

and yes, i do ride the metro in d.c. because that's where i've lived all my life and i know what a pain in the butt it is when there are machine guns and dogs sniffing my bags but it's not an everyday occurrence and thank GOD i am not living in a country where bombs are going off all around me EVERYDAY.

i have too many friends from the Middle East (one of whom was very falsely accused of being a terrorist in the hysteria days after 9/11) to call them all terrorists. most of the Middle Eastern guys i know like sucky house music and mojitos than reading the Koran and hating America so sorry to burst anyone's bubble!

sorry for yet another off topic thread! i'm done commenting on this.

This too is my last comment.

I am sorry for feeling the way i do, because I know the majority of middle eastern men are not terrorists, but, to someone who is NOT from DC, and is NOT used to seeing the guns and such, I am not used to it and it keeps everything on my mind.

(i don't know how to describe to you what looks scary to me) (and guess what, I have friends form the middle east too-coworkers as well and they are nice and i don't think they are terrorists)

Roger that cravin, I went up a bit farther up this time. I won't comment any more on that.....

Oh, it was banned in 1996 again in Egypt but an Islamic cleric sued and the ban was overturned again in 1997. It has never been a crime, for it to be a crime punishable by a fine, jail you would need an act of their parliament/congress. the guy that sued when asked why it is not practiced at all in Morocco and Algeria should it be practiced in Egypt replied that the clitoris in Egyptian girls was larger than in those countries and had to be cut back to a normal size. Priceless.....

Before this ban, just for your information the practice was prohibited unless needed for health reasons, but that was and is like getting a doctor's note here. Doctors would claim it was medically necessary for all and everyone had access....

Have a happy 4th of July everyone!

1. Female genital mutilation is not even tangentially related to male circumcision. It is a method of control and oppression and a ridiculously sexist practice. On top of that, the conditions many girls in Africa endure for their "procedure" make even the shoddiest American male circumcisions look positively stellar.

2. I refuse to go back and once again refute all the misconceptions regarding male circumcision with actual facts. I hope some commenters bother to do some actual research before making decisions based on mythical nonexistent medical benefits.

3. DearSugar - Muslims circumcise their males for religious reasons, so I'm not sure why the question is posed whether or not Egypt would believe routine male circumcision (which IS on the out in America) is a crime against men.

Just to add something Vanyvrgs said , yes the problem already is in Upper Egypt ,already the poor 12 girl died in Qana that's beside Luxor and here is the problem the Upper Egypt can be considered more complicated and more private then the rest of Egypt and it is just like a country inside a country with its own traditions that are stronger laws and religions
The ban surely is not enough and the parilment needs to restrict a strong law with restrict punshiment and even with that it won't make them stop ,the only way is through cleric ,Muslim and Christian , the orders should be given that the Friday and Sunday speeches should explain the dangers of this process ,the religion factor here can replace the law factor
unfortunately the upper Egyptians can be hard to convince easily I mean this is not the only social problem they got ,it is only the ice berg

Vanyvrgs ,I know that Cleric you were speaking about ironically after the anouncement of the grand Mufty no one heared his voice again , the grand Mufty is the highest Sunni position in Egypt , his decision is usually taken but after a research with other Clerics
it is so silly and rude what he said really about the Egyptian girls , already they forgot him to ask about Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Islamic world
anyhow I believe this man is from the people who are seeking media attention than anything else

Thank you for your explanation Zeinobia, that is what I love about this website, people from everywhere with different experiences and you learn something everyday. I do hope is criminalized but do agree with you that the muslim clerics and the christian heads have to continue to send the message that this mutilation is wrong and eventually minds will be changed.

Good night.

Im not going to divulge in the ignorant and ridiculous statements made above regarding bombing the middle east and such.

However I do feel the need to say something. This website is a great outlet for people to share opinions and to interact in a friendly manner. But people spewing hatred and being blatently racist should not be tolerated on this site, or any site for that matter. I am aware that we cannot always help how we think/feel, however that is not the rest of our problem. Its your problem and you should be able to have an intelligent discussion about a serious issue without automatically attacking a certain ethnicity or geographic area because thats the first thing that comes to mind. How about just not commenting at all??

It appears I have divulged after all...oops. Im very passionate when it comes to tolerance and acceptance when it comes to other cultures. Remember this wasnt a personal attack on anyone specifically...just a general statement. Have a good night everyone!

i sympathize with those who have died because of the procedure and have been caused pain by the procedure.

something to remember is that there are cultures different from ours and beliefs different from our own. Part of being a united community and overall being united as human beings is respecting and understanding those differences.

To go back to the initial topic, I see male circumcision as a religious and/or medical operation, and I'm not saying that uncircumcised men aren't healthy but yes, circumcision has healthy benefits.
Female circumcision is in no way related to health, it's about making sure a woman will not get any pleasure from intercourse, and will therefore not try to have any sexual experience before marriage or outside of marriage.

While I understand people might not agree with male circumcision, I find it slightly offending to see these two procedures equated or offered any comparison..

I researched this issue when I was studying Human Rights at university. It is a horrendous practice and I can only hope that the rest of Africa places a ban on this too.

I have done research on FGM in the past, and many of the procedures are done secretly, in a relative's house, and the mother, aunt, grandmother, etc will do it with a kitchen knife. The other female relatives hold the girl down because there is usually NO anesthesia. It really is a wonderously cruel practice that proliferates because of 'honor'.

On male circumcision-- I will attest that men who are not circumsized are not any dirtier or prone to infection than anyone else, but they do need to be more mindful of cleaning the area. I also feel like they really do get more pleasure and stimulation out of sex.

Oh, and for those ignorant people wanting to bomb the Middle East-- that won't solve the problem. There are many radical schools of thought in places you wouldn't want to bomb-- London, Hamburg, Paris, etc.

To those people going off about bombing the middle east; there are just as many, if not more people that think the world would be a better place if people just bombed the crap out of America. I'm not going to lie....a lot of days I'm one of those people haha (in case you're wondering, I'm a caucasian Canadian). I know the majority of Americans are good people, the majority of my best friends are American. But your government is straight up messed up. Your country has killed WAY more middle eastern people than the middle east has killed Americans. Anyways, I'm going to stop before this becomes an even longer rant. To quote one of my favorite bands "America is the terrorist"

ps- a large percentage of the recent terrorist plots/attempts going on in the UK have been by people that were born in the UK. It had more to do with muslims upset over how they're treated in Europe than anything else...so yeah.

I am muslim not terrorist nore barberic

If you have seen how many children and girls our age have been killed by US army and how many dead girls body without head have been found in deserts of Iraq then you would tell who is barberic

oh and I have no idea what is Female Circumcision is? we just circumcise 1-3 years old boys in our families!

SOME people need to study Sociology and a little concept called ETHNOCENTRISM
yeesh.

Anyway, I'm glad to see that this ban is in place but hope that it will deal out harsher punishments to those who violate it.

Thank you Bahar! That's another thing, there are a hell of a lot more reports of US soldiers raping and killing Iraqi girls than the other way around. Actually, I haven't heard any reports of it happening the other way around...