That's going to be one screwed up kid

While I understand the whole idea of people hating the "social construction" aspect, I think people need to take a look at what they are really doing. It's sort of...well...necessary to know your gender. When someone asks on a survey or something if you are a boy or girl, what do you do? Cry because they are trying to make you "conform"? That seems so ridiculous to me.

No one is different on this whole planet. People think they are unique, but they are not. People are male or female -- even if they are born one and identify more with another. A born physically male, but really a female. Whatever the case may be. People dress the same, act the same, think the same. You cannot avoid conformity. I don't understand how not revealing a gender, or telling your kid their gender will help anything. It won't eliminate confusion, it would add to it. That is not something you hide. It's something trivial, so what are they trying to do? They want to be new-agey and different, more accepting to guys identifying as girls and visa versa, so they don't have to label what their child is.

Even the parents know, their kid is a boy OR a girl. Physically, you cannot be both, and what matters right now is physically what the child is. I am sure the kid will ask questions, and I am sure they will say something about how they want him to be and grow up different, how they don't want to cause problems, how it's better this way.

He'll know his gender very soon. I can guarantee that. So all of their secrecy and hard work will have gone out the window. And once it happens, they will see how unnececessary it really was.

She's not up to date on her facts and she's pushing her views to an extreme at the expense of her child. Scientists recently proved without a doubt that boys will be better in math no matter what we do and they don't know why. Also then when the girls were studied they just like dolls better. Nothing to do with outside social pressures. The boys were given dolls too and they throw them on the ground, and go for the trucks. It's in the genetic makeup. Sometimes women have to prove themselves if they happen to be one of the lucky ones who can fly an F-16 or be a brilliant mathematician. I'm sure they have to prove themselves twice as hard. That's life though. God, that poor kid.

Dikke, there's no way to prove that "without a doubt" because the children studied have already been socialized. There's no way around it.

Regardless, these parents seem odd, to say the least. I think they're doing more harm than good.

That's just mean. There is no shame in being happy to be a boy or a girl. Wait till that kid is older and the kids start picking on him/her...then the parent will wonder what they did.

For having a baby, this couple has way too much time on their hands. One can embrace their gender (or sex, as it is) without being confined to 'labeling' societal norms. That being said, it's also healthy to not only be comfortable with your gender (as Pop will clearly not be, due to outside influence, which he/she'll ultimately have to face in order to function), but learn that you can ALSO be an individual, and not a stereotype. For instance, not all girls like dolls and shopping, and not all boys want to grow up to be firemen and play with trucks.

I don't know that this will cause the trauma everyone else seems to think... Treatment of people based on gender really does happen from day one, and if you read the article they say the child does know there's a difference between boys and girls, they just aren't treated like one or the other. If the parents are willing to go through the trouble of keeping the baby's gender from the general population, that's their right as to how they're raising their child. I'm sure once the child hits school age it will become obvious to everyone what gender it is; the first day of school when they have to go to the bathroom will be the telling sign. But hopefully the parents intention will be realized by then, that their child will CHOOSE who they are from an early age, hopefully making the child a more secure person as they grow. Of course it always has the potential to backfire, like ANY idea (religion, ancestry, socio-economic class) that is forced upon a child.

I really wish I could find the article, but it was talking about gender and eating. How if a thin girl pigs out she's eating like a boy, but if a fat girl does the same she's out of control. And if a thin boy picks at food he's encouraged to eat like a man but heavy boys are still encouraged to eat. There was a story contrasting a little girl and boy wanting cake, and they got the same amount, but with the little boy it was cute that he liked the cake but the little girl was warned (at 5 years old!) about 'a moment on the lips, lifetime on the hips.' Those are the situations I think the parents are hoping to avoid.

BTW dikke - I've known plenty of little boys who like dolls and little girls who like tanks & trucks. Kids will generally play with whatever you put in front of them if you don't teach them from the beginning, 'This is for boys, this is for girls.' And dressing a little boy in pink does no more damage than dressing a little girl in blue, until you factor other children and their learned attitudes into the picture.

it's not even as noble as they are trying to sound, they are not freeing the child from anything, they're just HIDING part of his identity from him.

Is it possible the child is intersexed? It happens to 1 in 100,000 children. One of the things we learned in the 70s is that you can't assign sex to a child like that - because gender is hardwired into the brain. In a famous case, they tried to turn a male child who had been castrated in a circumcision accident into a girl. He suffered from strong depression, and eventually committed suicide with a shotgun over the issue.

The lesson learned from that case is that you have to let an intersexed child express what gender they are - then support them in taking the medical steps to correct their genitalia.

Wow, this kid is two years old, and the parents are still keeping her gender a secret! Guess he doesn't go to daycare.

the whole thing seems odd,and they are not helping the child in any way

this is silly, seriously. it's making the statement that the only way that people can be fully self realized is to ignore their individuality. I'm a woman, I wear make-up and heels, go shopping, and cry at the end of every sappy movie. But on the same coin I'm better with powertools than most of the guys I know, I was the top of my high school class in all things (including besting boys in math and science), and I play tackle football with the boys. That's who I am, none of it is based on gender. I am happy to prove people wrong when they stereotype me, because I strongly believe that everyone regardless of any superficial traits has the ability to be exactly what they want to be.

Well said, ummyeaitsma!

the fact that they're making a statement about gender and society does not bother me. the fact that they're creating an experiment with their own child is to me wholly unethical.

I don't know how I feel about not identifying a child's sex, it is what it is & seems like they are not preparing the child for society. If you don't care that your son/daughter conforms to traditional societal norms, then help them understand you accept his/her choices. Children are very opinionated & constantly looking for outside approval, so as long as you are approving of their behavior they will be accepting and it will help others (children and parents) to be more accepting (not that they will approve of the behavior but accept the decision). I think refusing to identify what sex he or she is; further shows that you're uncomfortable with the child's choices. By not allowing him/her to know that their choices can be correct regardless of outside judgments and the norms of society will make them question their own choices and behaviors.

I had a psych professor in college who had a 7-year old daughter who she hadn't named yet... because she knew how much of an impact names can have on a child and she didn't want her to be "screwed up." The family referred to the child as "Sister." Right... She's SEVEN! With NO NAME. Some people are just WEIRD!

0denielle0 — it sounds like your professor just didn't want to admit that the girl's name was Sister!

How does a seven-year-old with no name go to school? What do they call her there? At least she knows she's a girl, though. Hiding the gender of your child is really not going to do anything but make people say how very ridiculous it is and maybe screw up the child more than knowing his/her gender would. The name "Pop" is not going to do anything for the kid either.

Um..."Pop"? I guess either they're going to think "really old man" or "sugar candy pop-girl"...seems kind of self-defeating...

Anyway, this isn't going to work, because while what we call "gender" is socially constructed (how we treat and view people), it's informed by BIOLOGICAL phenomena. Typically, if you have a penis, or sex chromosomes XY, you're considered "male" or "a boy", and people will treat you as such. If you have a vagina, or sex chromosomes XX (or just NO Y's), you're a "girl", a "female" and people will treat you as such. There are things women can do that men can't, and vice versa. Part of being human is knowing what your body can and can't do.

While this "experiment" might help "Pop" develop into a more well-rounded individual, he/she is going to get a rude awakening when they start interacting with people. That child will be so confused.

From the article Tres linked to on Salon.com: "Only those who have changed the toddler's diapers know if "Pop," which is not the child's real name, is male or female."

"Pop's wardrobe includes both pants and dresses, and the child usually gets to decide what to wear. "Although Pop knows that there are physical differences between a boy and a girl, Pop's parents never use personal pronouns when referring to the child -- they just say Pop," according to the English-language Swedish site the Local."

Hate to be the one who's different here, but I don't really see anything wrong with the parents choosing not to publicly state their child's sex. Their child is aware of the differences between boys and girls, and is likely aware of their biological sex. The real challenge for the parents will come later when the child starts school and interaction is based on gender. It would be interesting to see how they handle that.

I doubt there is much harm done, when I was that age, I went to a daycare with all boys, and really thought I was one of them. Kids that age don't really understand gender, and it's not a big deal.

I really don't see harm in this. They're not telling people the gender, because they don't want the child to feel pressured to act a certain way. Eventually, the child will grow, start looking like one of the genders, and it will be made obvious- I doubt this will continue until they're 18! xDD

Scientists recently proved without a doubt that boys will be better in math no matter what we do and they don't know why.

Um, what research studies are YOU ready ?! It's very, very, VERY rare to see a social psych experiment with the end result of "proved without a doubt." methinks you are wrong.

thank you runningesq. Dikke, scientists actually just proved that there is NO difference in mathematical aptitude between boys and girls. I would suggest you recheck your references. I'm pretty positive of this considering I am a female math major and follow these studies pretty closely.

This is tremendously messed up. Years of therapy are in store for this kid.

Oh my. Poor Pop. How sad is that? The child needs to know their gender! Just wait until the child is about 5 or 6. You can tell them. I swear, if (it's possible) you are the parents to this child, and reading the comment, you are making a big mistake. All the tormenting this poor kid is going to get. And being so confused. Oh my. And imagine if your child can't handle this well? Therapy doesn't work? And they kill themselves! It'll be all your fault. It'll be like murder. I'm sorry...

Anyone else think of Pat from the old SNL skits?

This is sort of weird, but I guess it lets Pop pick his or her gender when she or he feels old enough to make an informed decision..we all are the sex we are born as (male or female), but it's quite possible to identify as a different gender. Children don't need to be told their genders...they will be able to figure it out themselves. It's just that most girls identify with feminine gender, and most males identify with the masculine gender, so most parents do just fine raising their children with that mindset.

@Dikke.

I'm a woman. I'm a computer science major. My best girl friend is a chemistry major. My female cousin is a medical sciences major. One of my best guy friends flunked out of college.

When I was little, I played with toy cars. I played with barbies too, but half the time they were getting kidnapped and had massive action adventures and had to brave torture chambers and whatnot.

When my boyfriend was little, he played with barbies as well. My younger male cousin asked for barbies for Christmas.

Men and women are both good at sciences, just with slightly different ways of learning. Ways of learning evolved by the cultural roles of men and women in hunter-gatherer societies. Boys and girls play with the same toys, it doesn't matter what "gender" the toys are, kids don't care.

As for raising a kid without a gender... I'm wholly against it. I remember when I was little, I'd never seen pictures of male or female genitalia. I knew guys had a bulge and girls had a hole, but I didn't know where my hole was, and since I've always been fat, I've always had a bulge in that area. It wasn't until I got my period that I was wholly convinced that I was a girl, and not just pretending. I can only imagine my level of confusion if my parents hadn't raised me with a gender at all (and for the record, I've always FELT like a girl, even when I was confused, I still FELT like a girl).

Yes, I think the parents are foolish.

Staple and everyone. Bravo to you all. I think woman are just as capable at some things don't get me wrong. I am sure you know you were not the majority in computer science or chemistry classes correct? Why is that? I was thinking about a science experiment I read about a few years ago. I have been trying to find it on the Internet. Anyway it was a famous test based on the old theory that social pressures have something to do with our interests. It was a control group of very young children. Both boys and girls were offered the same types of toys and tested for different capabilities. They found that without question the girls were superior at some things and the boys at other things. I couldn't help but notice when I went to my college only a small percent of women were enrolled in the chemistry and engineering colleges. I dont think it was because mommy wanted their daughters to be teachers either. I don't buy into that. Believe me if I could be a math major or a chemistry major I would have done it. I struggled like hell to get a C in those classes. I'm just not good at it. Does it have to do with social pressures? Hell no.

I don't think it's as simple as "mommy wanted their daughters to be teachers." There are much larger societal influences at play.

I for one excelled in math and science, but didn't enjoy them.

Lilkimbo. If I had exelled in math I would have jumped for joy. I would have taken a engineering job or become a pilot that paid big money. Money was the bottom line for me. However I excelled at art. Its good that artists can be men or women. There's no gender role bias in that. However math gets better paid I think. I do dread the stereotypes people assume of artists.
My roomate in college was a math major and she had jobs waiting for her when she graduated.
I had to find jobs on my own. They don't even hire designers at job fairs. So much for art appreciation. Pretty much in graphic design both men and women do equally well. I still think some of the web designers who are men get paid more. About 20% more. Just thought I'd put my two cents in......

Dikke, I genuinely feel bad for people who choose careers based solely on money. Of course a big part of the reason we all work is because we need money to survive. And of course very few people, if any, are going to enjoy their job every day. But I just don't see the point in choosing a field you dislike just because you happen to be good at it. What a miserable life! Although, I have to say, for a lot of people that's not a problem because most people naturally enjoy what they are good at.