"Why are we bringing it back? Because there is sin in the world."
With that matter-of-fact answer one Catholic bishop in Brooklyn explained why the Church has decided to start peddling indulgences —or, get-out-of-purgatory free cards!
Technically believers haven't been able to purchase indulgences outright since 1857. But, you can exchange a charitable contribution and confession, or a combination of other acts for reduced time in purgatory. According to the Church, sinners must face punishment in purgatory before they make it to heaven.
Plenary indulgences, which erase all the time a sinner must spend in purgatory, only come around every so often. Right now they're being offered in conjunction with a yearlong celebration of St. Paul, and they're available for you, or someone you know (dead or alive).
So are Catholics lining up to participate in something as confusing as this? According to the New York Times, many are eager for the opportunity to "do something Catholic" in these modern times.
DKNY
Acne Jeans
Matthew Williamson
Seriously? Is this a joke? I'm confused.
1Isn't this what caused a lot of trouble and split from the Catholic Church in the first place?! Why the heck would you stir that up again!?
And, even reading about it - I understand indulgences, and why the Church says they're done and everything - but it just doesn't make sense to me and seems really unnecessary. But then again, I guess that's why I'm not Catholic. :\
2Okay, apparently the indulgences aren't for sale, you get them in exchange for certain prayers or other actions. It still seems silly to me, but I'm not Catholic so what do I know.
3Is it time for the next revolution within the Catholic Church? We got the Protestant Churches with the last one. What are we going to get this time?
4I'm Catholic and it's embarrassing to me.
5Yikes. I agree, steph.
6LMAO! What is this the newest version of Monopoly? Hey I wanna be the dog!
7is this for real?
8There's always been sin! What is he talking about??
9Woo hoo! It's time to re-watch Dogma so that I can be prepared when Loki and Bartleby decide to visit that church in Red Bank, NJ.
10How much do they cost? I might get one... just in case.
11Well I'm a homosexual I might have to sell all my worldly possesions just to afford one.
12"Just in time for Valentine's Day! Show someone you care by...getting them a shorter stay in Purgatory! "
I really hope they don't have commericals for this. I might die - then I'll *actually* need some! @_@
13Stephley, for once I'm with you. As a Catholic, I'm kind of disappointed.
14
15And yet another reason why I'm proud of myself for resigning from the Catholic Church for good. Ever since Pope Benedict XVI was elected, the Church is making huge steps back to the Middle Ages. *rolls eyes*
16Mitch: I love the french sailor look...chic!
17I'm just speechless on this one.
18Hmm, now that I'm reading and it's not monetary - I'm a little more OK with it. I think it's good to push people to be closer to God, and if this is what it takes, then so be it... If it was just monetary contributions, I'd be
about it.
19So, basically, the Catholic Church is saying that all rich people can go to heaven, whereas the poor will just have to fend off the fiery flames of hell by themselves. As if heaven is something you can buy your way into. I wonder how much a one-way ticket to heaven costs these days...
This is an embarassing return to medieval times. I thought the Church was better than this.
20They need to replenish the property they had to sell to cover their legal costs...
21mscc, they're not selling them. It doesn't take any money, just special prayers.
22Here's my question- How do they know that this is how it works? The great hereafter doesn't just mold itself to whatever the church decides to cook up. Craziness!
23I'm confused! They're flawed human beings, just like us. The only difference is they've devoted their lives to religious study/service. When were they deified? I hope for the sake of the people who buy indulgences that they're right.
24You can get these for someone dead too? I've always been taught while you can pray for others to come to God and pray and hope for their salvation, but ultimately you are responsible for you. That you are the only one you can get to heaven or hell. I'm not Catholic, so they may have a different stance. If so, I'd love to hear about it.
25Stangel, I thought that was weird, too.
26You have to read the fine print there, it is not automatic: "The decree lists the usual conditions for receiving the plenary indulgence: sacramental Confession, reception of Holy Communion, prayer for the intentions of the Holy Father and “complete detachment from any inclination to sin.”
That complete detachment from any inclination to sin is not something that can be granted by any church official. That MUST come from within the conscience of the petitioner, and without mental reservations, or attempt to evade. In essence the people who are eligible to receive such an indulgence, more then likely already have earned one from the "Supreme Being". It is another example of Catholic bashing. In this country the only "safe" targets of "hate" are those believing Christians, who hold a principled position based on "Faith".
27Yes, it must be "hate" for believing Catholics that would lead other believing Catholics to question something like this. No intellectual curiosity possible, no philosophic questioning, no theologic difference of opinion - just "hate."
28I am Catholic and I don't understand indulgences, i'm not sure God will care about what you do except for whether you truly repent at the moment of death. Anyway this won't stop me from being a proud Catholic.
29Look at the date the Catholic Church made the announcement, over 6 momnths ago. What makes this worth posting here now other then a case of Catholic bashing.
August 5, 2008
ANNOUNCES INDULGENCES DURING PAULINE YEAR
Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio has announced that parishioners in the Diocese of Brooklyn can receive plenary indulgences for participation in events connected with the 2008-2009 jubilee year of St. Paul the Apostle proclaimed by Pope Benedict XVI in May.
The Pauline year began June 28 and will close June 29 next year to mark the approximately 2,000 anniversary of the saint’s birth.
In a decree, dated July 23, Bishop DiMarzio designated the places where the faithful may benefit from the plenary indulgence if they take part with devotion in a liturgy or other public exercise in honor of the saint during the Pauline year.
On any day during the jubilee, indulgences can be gained at St. James Cathedral Basilica; St. Paul’s Church, Court St.; SS. Peter and Paul Church, South Third St.; St. Paul’s Church, Corona; SS. Peter and Paul Spirituality Center at two locations: Immaculate Conception Center, Douglaston, and 118 Congress St., Brooklyn; and Bishop Molloy Retreat House, Jamaica.
The indulgence can also be obtained within the territory of the Diocese on Dec. 8, 2008, the Solemnity of the Immaculate Conception; Jan. 25, 2009, the Feast of the Conversion of St. Paul, and June 29 next year, the Solemnity of SS. Peter and Paul and the solemn closing of the jubilee commemoration.
Other days when the faithful can gain the indulgence are the patron feast day of each parish in Brooklyn and Queens.
The decree lists the usual conditions for receiving the plenary indulgence: sacramental Confession, reception of Holy Communion, prayer for the intentions of the Holy Father and “complete detachment from any inclination to sin.”
30The NY Times article has some priests admitting the rules are hard to grasp for those who have never heard of it. I believe it. This is really confusing me. I'd like to understand it, but I'm not sure I will.
31Stephley there are Catholics, who claim to be Catholics that does not make them practicing Catholic. You could claim to be a conservative, or Cinelover claim to be a progressive, that would not make either statement true, nor validate pronouncements, made by either.
32The Times article, which is dated yesterday, focuses heavily on reasons and reaction. Is it Catholic bashing to write a well researched article with a number of different views expressed?
33starangle82, if the full rules of any religion were easy to understand in all detail, priests, ministers, and rabbis, would not spend years studying before being “ordained” to lead the faithful of their sect.
34Meaning what G'pa? Should we present credentials?
35(My question refers to the response addressed to me)
36I understand that Grandpa. I just enjoy trying to learn about other religions and denominations.
37The Times, has along history of denigrating not only Catholics, but evangelicals, and recently Mormons. These sects have beliefs that are held as articles of faith that are at odds with The Times, abortion the most notorious.
38Oh, I see where you're coming from now.
39As a PRACTICING CATHOLIC I'm more okay with the Times than I am with people who think any bit of discussion or criticism equals hate.
I am unsure what you meant there. Are you saying you consider yourself a "practicing" Catholic, or are you implying that I am making my statements as a “practicing” Catholic?
40I would never presume to imply anything about whether you are 'practicing' - I only speak for and of myself.
41I am saying that if you are a news person, it is incumbent upon you to be sure of your facts, and at least interview a spokesman from the diocese for a clarification of my accusation. In fact the answer was right there in the sourced document, if anyone bothered to read it all the way through. It is at the very least sloppy journalism and even sloppier editorial review of the article prior to publishing.
42Stephley,then you oppose abortion, and artificial forms of birth control, since they are both “articles of faith” of a practicing Catholic who is in communion with the Church.
43What I believe I have discussed with my various pastors throughout my life - who as you have said, studied for years. We're all fine with describing me as a practicing Catholic so you can relax, I've been judged by professionals.
44
45Religion is mind boggling to say the least.
maybe i;m wrong and i read your statement wrong grandpa but i think what defines being a practicing catholic is subjective as is what defines chrisitianity. Questioning or disagreeing with your church doesnn't make you any less of a catholic i think cos lord knows i don't do a lot of the things required by the church but i still consider myself a practicing catholic
46nyaradzom, if you were to say Christians, I would whole heartedly agree with you. Once you claim affinity with a particular sect, then to be "faithful" to that sect and in communion with that faith you have to adhere to the teachings of that sect. That is what makes a Baptist a Baptist, A Catholic a Catholic, a Lutheran a Lutheran, etc. Most sects require you to follow all their rules, or be separated from that sect.
47Um, last I heard purgatory didn't exist anymore... what happened?
48You are thinking of Limbo, MSucre.
49Grandpa, I'm practicing Amish, but I use electricity and support buttons and zippers on clothing. This doesn't make me not practicing Amish for the same reason that supporting abortion doesn't make Stephley not practicing Catholic..
Stephley, it's interesting that you
use the word "pastor," especially since they're called "priests" most of the time.
50Msucre, I thought the same about purgatory, but frankly, I'd rather have it exist!
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