Places of business should be able to enforce any PDA-related code they want - but it has to be fair to each and every orientation. I don't mind cute pecks, but I don't want to see any couple, regardless of gender of the partners, making out.

But it does seem to me like this woman and her girlfriend were trespassing, without a doubt. You're told to leave a place of business, and not to return (regardless of how unfair being told to leave was), and you return to the place of business? That's not legal.

If a place is a private, members-only type thing, then I see nothing wrong with them setting rules. Public places is another thing. I do think couples, gay or straight, should recognize what are appropriate forms of PDA. I have no desire to see a couple making out in public, gay or straight. But holding hands or a quick kiss really isn't a major thing to me.

I think I'd thank any mall that has rules against excessive PDA. Personally I'd hope they enforced the rules equally for all genders and orientations, but I think it's within their legal rights to do otherwise. I wonder just how explicit this 'kiss' was.

starangel, do you consider a mall a public space? I don't, and frankly never have. They're a private establishment and therefore have the right to utilize any sort of nondiscriminatory rules they want to! The mall in my city has a really firm anti-camera policy. I'm forever pretending to text while I take a picture of a truly heinous outfit some pleeb has put on a mannequin. But if they caught me and wanted to throw me out for a week - I'd obey it, because otherwise it's trespassing.
The issue in the arrest is undeniable - they trespassed. Should they have been asked to leave in the first place? Possibly not, but that isn't what the ladies seem to be arguing.

I have a hard time believing the security guard noticed a simple kiss on the cheek from one girl to another and thought he could kick them out of the mall for that.

He says that one was sitting on the other's lap and they were "swapping spit." I think that's a lot more likely.

Organic, thanks for researching the other side of the story! I would find that inappropriate no matter who it was, and if that's what these ladies did, they deserved to be kicked out of the mall.

chat - why isn't a mall a public space? Yes, it is usually owned by a company that leases space to retailers, but there is no membership requried to enter a mall. You are not required to buy something. Or to park. You can come and go as you please. Most malls have rules of conduct for the patrons safety and that's all well and good. Most public places can kick someone out if they are caught doing something illegal or doing something that could interfere with the safety of others.

Sorry that should read 'is a mall a public space?'

Actually, here is a good definition of a public place: http://definitions.uslegal.com/p/public-place/

Starangel, it's a private space because it's owned by those private companies. They allow both retailers and customers use of that space and their services, but they have the right to kick you out if you break their rules. You do not have a "right" to be in the mall.

mall cop, mall cop, what you gonna do? what you gonna do when they come for you?

Hate to disagree mich:
"Public place" means any enclosed indoor area used by the general public or serving as a place of work containing two hundred fifty or more square feet of floor space, including, but not limited to, all restaurants with a seating capacity greater than fifty, all retail stores, lobbies and malls, offices, including waiting rooms, and other commercial establishments;"
From the above listed link.

right and if a straight couple had done that they would have done the same thing. That's the thing i find it weird, it's perfectly acceptable for a boy and girl to chew each others faces off but the minute gay couples do it they get the side eye like people want to fight. I see that here all the time and personally i am more disgusted by the kids who take PDA to a whole other level of nastiness. It's very rare that you see adult couples going at it. I tend to believe the woman.

Starangel, I guess under the definition you linked to, the mall is a "public" place, but not in the sense that a park is a public place. There are different rules made by different people. Do you think that the mall shouldn't be allowed to make rules against PDA?

It was a kiss on the cheek... I kiss my friends hello on the cheek... haven't gotten arrested as of yet.

Lilprisci, that's their side of the story. The security officer said otherwise.

This is what i don't get, people are fine with copious amounts of sex and violence on tv and in the movies but a kiss here and there in public is a no no??

starangel - a mall is no more a public space than a Target. It's a private business, and they can have any rules they want! A mall in a bad part of Phoenix says that groups of teenagers must be smaller than six. They can enforce any sort of rule they want so long as it isn't discrimination.

Like I said earlier mich, if it is a private club or whatever, then they have every right to. I really don't know if legally a mall has a right to make those kind of rules. Technically PDAs aren't a safety violation (unless people want to attack the couple), but can make certain people uncomfortable. And if a mall is going to set rules for gay couples, then they should be the same for straight couples.
Like I said, I don't want to see a straight or gay couple going at it like bunnies on a park bench. I think couples should be aware of the people around them and courteous to those around them. I also think if it gets out of hand and someone asks them to stop, they should.

nya, it wasn't a "kiss here and there" if they were "swapping spit" and one was on the other's lap.

starangel, using that definition, practically everything but private residences are public, which is simply ridiculous.

Also, utilizing that definition, the place I work at now is not a public place, but the place I worked at previously, which is the exact same company, name, provides the same services, etc, but in a larger building on the other side of town, is! That's silly.

You don't know if, legally, a mall has the right to enforce public decency?

... OK. :rofly:

You don't know if, legally, a mall has the right to enforce public decency?

... OK. :rofl:

Everybody really should read the linked article. It sounds as if the arrested woman is being dishonest about what happened. Her story doesn't sound quite right. Furthermore, she was arrested for assaulting the mall cop in addition to trespassing and resisting arrest.

I'd love to see a mall go broke trying to enforce a PDA policy. My 13-year old daughter's 5'9" and I'm 5'1", we look nothing alike - should I be afraid to pat her back, hold her hand or kiss her in public?

Some people have weird control issues. A private business should be able to do as it pleases, individuals expressing affection should be controlled.

Steph, if your daughter was sitting in your lap and french kissing you, I think I'd have a problem with it. There's an obvious difference between hand-holding/ cheek kissing and some more explicit actions.

Michelin, don't trample on her civil liberties!

Steph, these women were making out, hot and heavy. It wasn't an issue of holding hands (which I do with my little sister frequently) or a quick kiss on the cheek (which my friends and I do in public frequently.) If you were making out with your daughter in public, you probably would be called out on it as it being inappropriate.

I think that you have the right to refuse service to anyone, for any reason.
I do think it is funny that Liberty decided only to put in the girls side of the story. I highly doubt it was a kiss on the cheek...
The difference between movies and the mall, is that I can not let my kids watch a movie, but when we are in a mall, I would like to not have to explain why a couple is making out, straight or gay.
I think that a mall should have the right to tell people not to do it again, as the security guard said. He eventually told them to leave. The mall has that right. A mall is private property, not public( public traditional definition meaning not owned by a private individual or company. )

But if there's a no PDA policy, those things would become issues. Are they going to time kisses, have signs designating where it would be acceptable to kiss someone or how far your hands can go? And if straight couples can make out, why can't gay couples?

Hainan, I also thought it was interesting that only one side's story was told! There's definitely a lot of spin on this website, no doubt.

steph, everyone here has said if it's the policy for straight couples, it needs to be the policy for gay couples. If you and your son were making out like this couple was, you would be called out for that, too.

first of all we have two sides to the story the cop says one thing and the woman says another so we can't say for sure who's telling the truth, period. And as for anyone refusing service to anyone for any reason is absurd as it gives way to saying i won't serve you because you are gay, not from here, fat, reasons that aren't legitimate. Refusing service for rude people however i fully agree with.

I don't think "just a kiss" that led to this. Plenty of other couples were probably kissing in the mall that day [both gay and straight]; kisses, butt-, hand-, and waist-holding happen all the time at the mall, so this just doesn't make sense.

When Garcia got to the part about how the officer told them to "sit properly on the bench"...well, I can see the problem, if you are sprawled all over your partner in a sexual/lewd way in a family mall. I don't think it has anything to do with their sexuality, that type of *activity* in a public space would be considered indecent.

Where did the "resisting arrest" and "assault of a peace officer" charges come in, I wonder? That sounds like they were doing something else to aggravate the officers.

Garcia said that after her girlfriend gave her a kiss on the cheek, the officers approached them and warned them to stop.

“He said, ‘This is a family mall, y'all can't do this,'” she said. “We said, ‘Do what?' He said, ‘Y'all kissed, and if y'all do it again I'm going to write you a citation or I'm going to kick y'all out...'

Pardue INITIALLY SAID IT WAS THE KISSING that gained the officers' attention, but she later clarified that the officers approached the women to tell them to sit properly on the bench.

She said one of the women was sitting on the other's lap — a claim Garcia disputes. Garcia said her girlfriend had the lower portion of her leg around hers, from the knee down. She said neither was sitting on top of the other.

“They (the officers) passed people who were kissing and they didn't tell them anything, but they came to us,” Garcia said. “We didn't even kiss. All she did is she kissed me on my cheek. There's no other way to explain it. They discriminated against us.”

It's interesting that you embellish the incident to include frenching, when the article clearly indicates the mall rep revised and expanded the cop's version of the story.

well heck that this actually became an issue in the first place is a wonder must have been a real slow day at the mall.

Nya, the cop probably got that scary, tingly feeling when he saw the women so he had to go harass them.

"This is what i don't get, people are fine with copious amounts of sex and violence on tv and in the movies but a kiss here and there in public is a no no??"
Nyaradzom-people who watch that stuff on movies and tv are CHOOSING to expose themselves to it, whereas you don't choose to see a couple, straight or gay, making out in public.

carrie sue really, someone kissing in public is bad and scary??? the way people use expose as if kissing is bad is what's boggling my mind. Unless i have a hand on breast action and they are rolling around naked on the floor, i'm probably just going to walk by and if i have kids i won't bat an eyelash cos lord knows they will have seen mom and dad kiss enough times. I'm sorry but the moral outrage about swapping spit so to say in public is just random.

I'm torn on this one. I hate excessive PDA but if the one girl was just sitting on the other's lap and kissed her cheek I don't see why they should get kicked out. I've seen straight couples do full on makeout sessions. If they're not getting kicked out too then it is discrimination against gays.

You're arguing illogically...did I say "bad and scary"? I was merely commenting on what you said. You said you didn't understand the difference between movies and public display, so I was explaining my view of it. Nothing bad or scary about it.
But personally, all facts aside, I don't like to see people acting like that in public. That's just me.

I imagine this mall cop would probably have an issue with a woman breastfeeding on that bench too.

I've seen plenty of straight couples making out hot & heavy with the girl on the guy's lap at malls without being kicked out. Just sayin'.

I'm with Mich on pretty much all of her comments on this one.

Yes, we've probably all seen couples making out at the mall. I have also seen couples be asked to leave or stop making out at malls. However, what we've seen doesn't really matter. What matters is what this particular mall cop has seen and how he has reacted to it.

And, the mall can have a code that specifies that inappropriate behavior is not permitted without strictly defining what is and is not allowed. Companies like this use ambiguous words in codes of conduct all of the time to cover themselves.

C'mon, lil, most people know instinctively what would or would not be considered acceptable in a public place. And commenters keep forgetting that we've only heard one side of the story. What gives us the right to judge a situation where we only have one sides opinion on what happened?

There is no question in my mind that regardless of the Malls’ claim of policy objectivity that there was no (personal) objectivity being expressed by the officers involved in the first exchange with the women. There fore the Malls policy which is supposedly fair to all was not represented in that situation, it was all about the officers and their personal discomfort.

As for the second exchange all they had to do is escort them to their car and really not say a word however they chose to create an atmosphere of confrontation and that’s just what they got.

This reminds me of similar experiences I had when I lived in the very conservative city of Upland Ca. in San Bernardino Co. back in 01/02 For decades this city has had +!++y bars at one end of town with big bill boards of big breasted women right on the main Blvd. (Rt. 66). Never a protest hardly a police patrol ever seen. Then when a gay club opens up on the other side of town all hell breaks loose. The police would raid the club once a month and at 1:30am every night in the parking lot across the street you would see a line of patrol cars sitting in the dark waiting to harass their chosen victim. I was one of them luckily I know my rights and for every piece of ignorance that spewed from the officers mouth I countered it with my knowledge of the law. Most did not fair so well however. Then there was the time I was being dropped off from a date. We were parked in front of my apartment sitting in the car talking for a bit and then kissed full tongue for several minutes. Next thing you know there is a patrol car parked next to us and he’s tapping on the window. My date obviously being ignorant of his rights was shaking like an F’ing leaf I on the other hand was ready to throw down baby. Long story short he asked us what we were doing and why don’t we go inside and do that. I simply told him because we don’t have to. LOL, when I said that my friends whole body just shuttered with fright. Long story short the officer went on his way but this is the point to everyone (know your rights). It kills me to see people get hysterical because they simply don’t know their rights.

"What gives us the right to judge a situation where we only have one sides opinion on what happened?"

The Internet.

carrie sue the whole story is up on the internet if you click on the link in the story, it's a he said she said story but i'm also with those who think personal prejudices came into effect here. that must have been so aggravating hypno. even if i know what i'm doing is right i get so mad that i just lose my crap, especially if the other person is wrong, sad but true

Carrie, I think I agree with you on this. You must have misunderstood what I was trying to say. My comment was in response to Steph's comment #28. The code doesn't have to specify that there can be no public displays of affection, just that there can be no "inappropriate" public displays of affection. That's my whole point, that most people know what would or would not be considered inappropriate.

"This is what i don't get, people are fine with copious amounts of sex and violence on tv and in the movies but a kiss here and there in public is a no no?? "

Not everyone is fine with copious amounts of sex and violence on tv. I also agree that PDA's aren't cool.

He said, she said, she said.

Steph, the mall cop himself said "swapping spit". I interpret that to mean it wasn't just a peck. You can call it "embellishment" if you want. The fact is that regardless of the reason for the initial request, the woman acted highly inappropriately afterward. Even if she was telling the truth and the only thing they were asked to stop doing was leg-cuddling and cheek-kissing, they still should have stopped. If he asked them not to do it and they stopped and then continued doing it, they were trying to instigate something. And then returning into the mall after being kicked out? Clearly, that's trespassing. And assaulting the mall cop? There's no excuse for that.