This weekend CA Attorney General Jerry Brown asked the CA Supreme Court to void Proposition 8 because it is unconstitutional. The attorney general must defend the laws of California. Yet Brown says Prop 8 makes his job impossible, because the amendment contradicts another part of the state Constitution: the equal protection clause.
Right after 52 percent of voters passed the gay marriage ban, Brown claimed he would uphold the will of the voters, and when the Court legalized same-sex marriage earlier this year, Brown had argued against it. But now, Brown says:
"Proposition 8 must be invalidated because the amendment process cannot be used to extinguish fundamental constitutional rights without compelling justification."
Brown thinks that in the conflict between the people's amendment power, and the court's duty to protect minorities and liberties, the court's duty should prevail. What do you think?
Gerard Darel
Mishumo
Juicy Couture
"Yet Brown says Prop 8 makes his job impossible, because the amendment contradicts another part of the state Constitution: the equal protection clause. "
What "equal" protection does Prop 8 contradict? Is there something in Prop 8 that says it's ok to go out and beat a homosexual, or a minority?
1what kind of standard for equality is that undave? what about the people who already are married and stand to have that taken away? that is theft of the worst kind.
THIS IS NOT MARRIAGE AS A RELIGIOUS CEREMONY we are dealing with here, this is about civil marriages, so this does not threaten the special bond that heterosexual couples married in churches have (although I think it would be nice if religions allowed gay marriage too, but forcing them would violate religious freedom) - so I don't understand the objections.
Marriage has evolved over the years (no more polygamy, women no longer property) so why this if it isn't discrimination? what is wrong about two people of the same sex publicly establishing commitment?
Democracy is only a good system if it avoids outright tyranny of the majority, which is what I consider this to be,
2No, the people voted. it should stand.
3It shouldn't have been on the ballot in the first place. Personal/civic/whatever rights are not up to the general public.
4I agree with moonlight and lil 100%. People need to get over their biases and prejudices and let people be.
5I was just talking about gay marriage with one of my friends this weekend, and she was telling me about this interview she saw with Melissa Etheridge after she finished chemo for breast cancer. She was talking about her what her wife did when she found out she had chemo--she had decorated their room with a banner that said "In Sickness and in Health". That is the true meaning of marriage (as opposed to, I don't know, serving your wife divorce papers when she's in the hospital getting chemo...*cough* Newt Gingrich *cough*), and yes, Prop 8 shoud definitely be repealed.
6Amen em!!
7that's an awesome story Em!
I think it should be repealed.
8Civil Rights issues shouldn't be on a ballot in the first place. It should absolutely be repealed.
9"what kind of standard for equality is that undave? what about the people who already are married and stand to have that taken away? that is theft of the worst kind."
What protection is being taken away? Prop 8 is taking any protections away. Rally to overturn prop 8, but don't repeal it based on equal protection.
10Shoot.
"prop 8 Isn't taking any protections away."
Sorry
11marriage comes from GOD. God doesnt sanctify gay marriage. Call it something else.
12uh oh
13Mmmm, spaghetti!
14That is the grossest pic ever.
15I was just thinking "Man, I'm hungry."
16I do have a comment on "shouldn't have been on the ballot in the first place. Personal/civic/whatever rights are not up to the general public."
17California has a unique statute in our constitution. Anything can be placed on the ballot by the people with enough petition signatures.
Maybe with some ketchup.
18em its a good story but gay people are just people, they will get divorced just as much as straight people I would guess. some will get married for the wrong reasons just as some straight people do.
and we'll be on to more broken homes for children to grow up in...
if it were up to me, everything would be a civil union and it would be 10000x harder to get married and even harder than that to get divorced.
19I prefer fettucine alfredo myself.
20good info Hain!
21And to Dave-
22The supreme court of california stated, "California, which in recent years has enacted comprehensive domestic partnership legislation under which a same-sex couple may enter into a legal relationship that affords the couple virtually all of the same
substantive legal benefits and privileges, and imposes upon the couple virtually all of the same legal obligations and duties, that California law affords to and imposes
upon a married couple." So, (trying not to start any arguments) prop 8 didn't really take anything away from gay couples. That they currently had. (aside from the ability to divorce)
Yeah, I wasn't trying to put them up on a pedestal, since they are just people too, but I like the story and think people, gay and straight, can learn from it.
I can't believe I'm now craving pasta.
23laurel: Marriage doesn't "come from God" (at least not always). It didn't become a church sacrament until the 12th century. Before that, the Church didn't have a role in marriages and they were cultural, not religious.
24And again the only solution is for the state not to refer to any unions as a marriage.
25Haus- your avi makes me impatient for christmas!!!
26Whoa, Faylinn, ease up there on your "history" and "research".
(Love the avatar, too. Bowie is the shizz).
27I don't think it should be up for voters to decide. but I don't think it would pass twice, vote again.
28em: Hah, I forgot that (religious) history doesn't count for this topic. Oops.
Thanks! Bowie is, indeed, amazing.
29We did vote twice Minday prop 22 passed in 2000 and prop 8 in 2008.
30And it's funny you say vote again. I don't like the result so just do it over hopefully it will be different? Anyways- I am highly upset that there are people seeking to nullify the 18,000 current gay marriages. Because as a group the yes on prop 8 people said they would not do that. However, it only takes 1 person to bring upon a lawsuit. Still upsetting though.
Prop 8 shouldn't have been on the ballot in the first place. It goes against our Constitution to keep the Church and State apart. This is my problem with religious people. You can't pick and choose things from the Bible to be used as a case to deprive people of their Constitutional right. Yes the Bible says homosexuality is wrong, but it also say to eat shrimp and shellfish is an abomination, so should we pass a ban on on all restaurants that serves them? It also say that adultery is a crime punishable by stoning, so should we stone everyone who cheated on their husbands or wives, or what about the fact that it goes against faith to shave your beard, or to wear two different clothes, or the fact that the book of Leviticus that says slavery is ok. The Bible is full of contradiction and the fact that people are using it to deprive people who wants just the same basic Constitutional right is just wrong.
31Who said that everyone who voted for this is religious myst? That is a major case of stereotyping on your end.
32And Myst separation of church and state is not in the constitution. Only that the government will not outright sponsor a religion and that we have the freedom as an individual to practice whatever religion we choose.
33I don't even want to get into another one of these arguments. The only thing I'll say is that people better work on legalizing polygamy and the practice of stoning adulterous wives to death if they want to legislate the Bible into law.
But wait...that would be a little to close to fundamentalist Islamic Sharia law for comfort, wouldn't it?
America isn't a theocracy. Thank God, eh?
34Yes, of course it should be repealed! You cannot let prejudiced, religious zealots decide the fate of a (semi) protected minority. Prop 8 is saying that people like my bigoted next door neighbor can decide that I'm not allowed to get married. How is that right? I don't care if people want to hate me because I'm a lesbian, but, it isn't ok for our nation to allow them to control our life. Then they talk about our founding fathers, saying that they were "good, religious men" but there have been many quotes from them to the contrary, they believed in the separation of church and state.
35Hainan, what's are the other reasons would it be for? Why do so many people think that homosexuality is wrong? Not because inherently they think it's wrong, but because it's been taught for generations that it's wrong for religious reasonings.
36I don't think we should get our Biblical info from a skit starring Jack Black.
And yes, separation of church and state is NOT in the constitution (neither is the right to privacy, but thats another story altogether).
I've never once heard anyone say they want to legislate the Bible into law so I think thats kind of a leap. The only arguments I've ever heard from those supporting Prop 8 was that they didn't want the definition of marriage changed and they want to preserve SOME traditional values in a country where they are quickly falling away.
37I never cease to be stunned at the amazing amount of stereotyping of those who supported prop 8. And it always gets a giggle out of me that it comes from the same people who complain constantly about being stereotyped themselves.
There are MANY MANY reasons, everyone has a different reason, for not supporting gay marriage. It is not only about the Bible 100% of the time.
38Exactly Kirstins, weren't religious by far. Our founding fathers are Agnostic at best. Thomas Jefferson was notorious for ripping apart the Bible or just leaving the parts that he thought made any sense.
39My husband is an absolute agnostic even borderline atheist. I am Baptist. I voted no on 8, he voted yes. Go figure. His reason is it against the laws of human nature. There are other reasons out there.
40Haus, I don't get any info from Jack Black. I can't stand Jack Black
I get it from the fact that I have to read large whacks of the New Testament for work and therefore have read those things. Along with the commandments to: put false
prophets to death, not to cross-dress, and not to wear garments made of a mix of linen and wool.
I think it's disingenuous to claim that the Prop 8 movement isn't religious in nature when so many Prop 8 proponents point to the Biblical condemnation of homosexuality as justification for discrimination against gays. Honestly--traditional values? If that's the case, it would seem far more important to legislate a ban on divorce; that would affect the heterosexual family unit far more than John and James down the street being able to get married in the eyes of the law.
41I agree, Jude.
42"His reason is it against the laws of human nature."
That's a pretty debatable argument, though, isn't it? (Hainan, I know this is your husband's reasoning, not yours, so I'm not arguing with you here, just responding to the idea.) His reasoning sounds like it's derived from the instinct to procreate or something like that, so if that's the case, "human nature" should include the instinct to run around shtupping everything that moves in order to propagate one's line--that's not particularly acceptable as an alternative
43Myst, as a christian we dont pick and choose what to follow, its quite clear. (mosaic laws , new covenant laws) and if you dont understand theology you will continue to throw "it says you cant eat shellfish" out there, but that is long gone and wrong.
44I don't eat shellfish, I'm good
45CG we pick and choose all the time - we find certain killing acceptable, we find torture acceptable if it makes us feel safe, we can justify certain lies, we can justify dissolution of certain marriages: if Christians didnt' pick and choose, why are there so many different Christian sects?
46This is not cool by any means. I think people need to put their prejudices and religious feelings aside and realize that they just revoked a group of people's human right to get married. Not cool. They need to repeal this ASAP!!!!!!
47And for the record, I am as much for polygamy as gay marriage. If we have gay marriage, I think we should allow polygamy. I did a speech on it for one of my classes recently and it change my opinion on it. If the argument for gay marriage is that is is about Love, then why can't multiple people have the right to choose to enter into a commitment with more than 1 person? What is the reasoning behind not allowing this act? IS it religious? I would love to see how many people are for gay marriage but not for polygamy.
48Okay, if we're going only by laws followed by Christians, then should we also legislate fewer rights for those who worship idols, work on the Sabbath, take the Lord's name in vain, fail to honor their parents, or covet what their neighbor's got? There's still plenty to pick and choose from, you know?
49Or, to be even simpler, should we legislate fewer rights for those who haven't accepted Jesus as the Messiah and savior?
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