20% doesn't sound like much but I guess it's better than nothing.
It'll be interesting to see what Bush does now about the auto industry - I think it's a dangerous issue/time for the GOP to suddenly decide to stand on principle.

I don't much like how the White House is considering doing that over the will of the Senate.

I can't wait for this Caylee Anthony drama to be over. It's so annoying, but I find myself compelled to devour every story about it that I see.

I hope that Caylee Anthony gets justice if it her - damn b*stards.

Glad they finally agreed on something. 20% isn't very much but it's better than anything. I thought they would never reach to an agreement with Merkel and Berlusconi.

For those who said 20% isn't enough of a reduction... what are your thoughts on the auto bailout? Seems to me like imposing more stringent environmental standards on the autocompanies at this junction will only insure that they do not succeed.

Ooops - and I meant to add that, yes I am aware that the measure passed in Europe, and I do assume that ya'll would be in support of such a measure passing in the US.

Now if we could just get those scientists to agree that Global Warming is human caused. Aren't there like 250 more scientists worldwide coming out against their previous conclusions?

UnDave-

Yes! There are 650 dissenting scientists at the UN Conference on Global Warming in Poland this year.

I tried to post a link about it, but got kicked out of the system. I'll try in a separate post.

I do think it's no longer accurate to state that scienced has concensus on this issue now.

Here's the link:

epw.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Minority.Blogs&ContentRecord_id=2158072e-802a-23ad-45f0-274616db87e6

Ok, so you might not think polluting and increased carbon emissions is causing 'global warming' and its all a farce. BUT there was a study released today that said the effects of pollution and increased exposure to carbon emissions is decreasing the size of male genitalia.

Would that be reason enough for you to not have a massive SUV and support these kind of actions?

Why would you care what a scientist says either way? Isn't it all in the Creator's hands?

diadem-

You simply MUST provide a link for that. I can't in good conscience Google that at work.

And steph - I suppose that's one way to look at the situation.

www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,24768960-948,00.html

I actually saw it discussed on the View this morning, but this story seems to be about the same study.

Thanks for posting diadem!

"Urgent action is needed to control gender-bending chemicals and more resources are needed for monitoring wildlife."

WOW, gender-bending. I mean the implications for humans... WOW. I can't really comment on this because it's a completely new one for me, and quite frankly I don't know that I want to go there.

Anyone?

What some people were saying is that men will now be the weaker sex. I kind of like that idea.

The only thing I will say seriously about this is that there are many benefits from legislation that reduces emissions, not just the idea that it will curb global warming. Pollution has a lot of effects on wildlife, human health, etc. I for one would rather have a healthier cleaner planet than cheaper goods and more factory jobs (or whatever rationale people use to say that this kind of environmental legislation is somehow a bad idea).

daidem-

I have been very forthright about my love-hate relationship with environmentalists. I like clean air and think that pollution is a generally bad thing. However, I think that policy should not be made ad hoc in a way that kills industry.

To me, the climate change argument is completely different than pushing for a general effort treat our planet better.

What I do think is shame is that global climate change has become such a devisive topic. It has become less about science (which apparently is still out on the issue) and more about ideology. In the mind of global changers, if I support drilling then I am a flat-earther. It's very off-putting.

(And yes, I'm rambling. It's Friday and I am wasting time!)

You know how I feel about the drilling thing (we talked about it before), I just think its a short term diversionary fix to our energy problems and a waste of time, effort, and money. Besides the fact that drilling will mean disturbing pristine land and marine habitats.

And I just don't buy the 'it will hurt industry' thing. I work in the manufacturing industry and we are actually saving money through our green intiatives at our plants. Its about efficiency (and its great press, you have less lawsuits, etc.).

Steph - Since it's the scientific community that is supposedly driving this madness. George Carlin had a pretty good commentary on global warming.

diadem-

Yeah, I think we will continue to disagree... I'm OK with that though. I think if you could get beyond the fact that I do not believe global climate change is man made and that drilling is fine as a SHORT term solution, you would be pleasantly surprise that we probably agree on many things.

One question on the saving money thing - how much did it cost to implement the new measures?

I can't go into specifics, but you get a lot of government tax breaks for a lot of things. One of the things that was done at one of the plants was to collect rain water on the roof instead of using public water. The cost was extremely low and the benefits were major cost savings.

Oh, I love rain collection barrels, they are great for gardners. For the rest of it, I really can't comment because I don't know specifics.

Looks like I'll be signing out for the evening. Have a great weekend!

Dave, I know about the Youtube thing - he also said this last year:

“People are selfish,” he said. “These people with the fires and the floods and everything, they overbuild and they put nature to the test, and they get what’s coming to them, that’s what I say.”
Joy Behar replied, “That’s a little harsh, George.”
But the 70-year-old comic continued: “People think nature is outside of them. They don’t take into [themselves] the idea that nature is a part of them.” Pointing to his chest, he said, “Nature is in here, and if you’re in tune with it, like the Indians – the balance of life, the harmony of nature – if you understand that, you don’t overbuild, you don’t do all this moron stuff.”

"I work in the manufacturing industry and we are actually saving money through our green initiatives at our plants. Its about efficiency (and its great press, you have less lawsuits, etc.)"
Then why not just let the businesses take care of that and stop making it mandated. That's when the cost of such measure rise is when there is a large demand for it. Which is what these mandated initiatives cause.
And I simply love how it isn't global warming anymore, it's climate change!