I just saw this on another site ( ) and I think it's great!

"create a relationship of mutual respect and partnership in countries and with peoples of goodwill who want their citizens and ours to prosper together."

Love it!

Oh no, the hysteria will start again. "He's reaching out to a form a relationship of mutual respect with Muslin countries because he is secretly muslim!"

I'm glad overall that are international relationships might be improved because of him and his efforts.

"Maybe all those Obama supporters who changed their middle names to Hussein on Facebook actually reduced the stigma, transforming the name from a campaign liability to a tool of US diplomacy. "

What is this post about? IMO, Liberty is seriously overstating the importance of Facebook and a person's name in the diplomatic sphere (see: Al Qaeda's response to the Obama Presidency).

Terrorists will hate the US regardless of who our President is - even Obama. I am torn on the appropriateness of our President giving an address in an Islamic capital, but I suspect that it will be actions like that - rather than a name - that will affect our nation's relations with the international Muslim community.

On another note - I would love to see actual news given a real posting, rather than smashed together like the Pelosi-halo shot below.

Jessie, "Oh no, the hysteria will start again." That is exactly what I was thinking.

I can already hear certain members of my family saying, "SEE?! I told you that there was a good reason to be scared of Obama! See?! See?!"

Kranky - I don't know if you know this, but Hussein is typically a shia sect name - in fact some Sunnis (not all, some do use the name) and MOST wahabis (like Al Qaeda) don't the name Hussain because it goes back to the time when the sects split and Imam Hussein and his followers were the Shia. Sunni (most muslims) followed the main guy in power, and a sect within the Sunnis, the Wahabis, were extremists in their views calling the Shia worst then the infidels for their choice. It's all some really interesting politics, has very little to do with religion even.

I am really excited about Obama and foreign policy, I think just who he is as a package is going to go far, if you combine that with the intelligence and diplomacy I think he has, I believe that he can make great progress in just a few years.

From Wiki:
"Husayn ibn ‘Alī is revered as a martyr who fought tyranny, as he refused to pledge allegiance to Yazīd I[11], the Umayyad caliph. He rose up to create a regime that would reinstate a “true” Islāmic polity as opposed to what he considered the unjust rule of the Umayyads.[11] As a consequence, Husayn was killed and beheaded in the Battle of Karbalā in 680 (61AH) by Shimr Ibn Thil-Jawshan.[12] The anniversary of his martyrdom is called ‘Āshūrā ("tenth" day of Muharram) and is a day of mourning and religious observance for Shia Muslims. Revenge for Husayn's death was turned into a rallying cry that helped undermine the Umayyad caliphate, and gave impetus to the rise of a powerful Shī‘ah movement.[11]"

Okay, I wasn't an Obama supporter, but I do believe in supporting our president (or president-elect). I'm really tired of hearing about how Obama's not a citizen or him being a Muslim or how he can stand on his head while wearing crocodile leather shoes (kidding on the last one). There is already speculation floating around about Blagojevich and how Obama is tied to it. My point is, this will inevitably stir up more controversy about the Muslim issue. Someone will always find something to stir up about Obama... or anyone in the spotlight, politics, or any position of power. And quite frankly, I'm tired of it.

(End rant.)

zeze-

No, I did not know the origin of the Hussein name - thanks for sharing, I always like new things. (And I am not being sarcastic, I truly thank you! )

However, I think that our relationship with the international Muslim community will have more to do with Obama's actions than his name or what people on Facebook do. The post did reference the Muslim community as a whole, not certain sects. Though they are not of the same sect, I beleive that Al Qaeda's reaction to his Presidential win supports my position.

Kranky, it's obvious that you're not aware of exactly how many Muslim nations that there are in the world. There's a number of Muslim nations that Obama could go to speak with. Such United Emirates, Egypt, Morocco, Tunisia, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Malaysia, and I could continue for hours on end, and many of these countries are US allies. The problem with the media and the current administration that we have in place is that, Muslim in general have shed in a negative light. My problem is that fact that it's not shown how justifiable the anger for many people in the Muslim world's on US foreign policy in the middle east, especially in regards to Israel and Palestine.

You're welcome, and I absolutely agree, it will be based on his actions in the end, but I do think what Liberty was saying holds some water. The Facebook name-change is more of an example of how he can use his background (not just his name) as a diplomatic tool. I think for many Muslim countries his name and the fact that he is not a "white man" will mean something - they look at this and see America can't possibly hate Muslims and Islam as much as Al Qaeda says they do, or else the would not have put a man with a Muslim name and Muslim father in office. Sure, if Obama starts a new war and starts demanding Palestinians must relocate and all of Jerusalem goes to Israel, his name and anything else will be meaning less - but as it is now, I think his name and background is a great stepping stone. Like nice wrapping on a present, it puts the receiver in a better mood of accepting that present, but if that present is coal, the wrapping will be forgotten.

"Oh no, the hysteria will start again. "He's reaching out to a form a relationship of mutual respect with Muslin countries because he is secretly muslim!"

my grandma already called me with BS. I can't really fight with her just "okay mima ya se."

Yeah right, let's all kiss and make-up and just be friends. Remember 9-11????? Wake up, people. It ain't gonna happen. THEY HATE AMERICANS!

CCPDM, can you say that to the hundreds of thousands of Muslim who are in America and are proud to be American?

Myst, I completely agree with everything you said. This will not change the option of terrorists (Muslim or no) but there are a lot of normal Muslim citizens in this world that felt they were lumped together with terrorists just because they shared a religion. Lots of them even liked America a lot and were alienated by the Iraq War and the Axis of Evil stuff, even if it wasn't there country it felt like a general attack on their culture. By this very small act I think Obama will do some good to set a distinction between terrorists and Muslims.

"Yeah right, let's all kiss and make-up and just be friends. Remember 9-11????? Wake up, people. It ain't gonna happen. THEY HATE AMERICANS!"

Can of worms...opening...

...worms...squirming...fighting to get out...

Any worm emoticons on here? I'm emoticon-challenged.

em, I think this emoticon will suffice for that comment:

"Kranky, it's obvious that you're not aware of exactly how many Muslim nations that there are in the world."

Myst-

I actually have some knowledge about the Muslim world. I have Muslim friends, I got my Master's degree in Anthropology (so I am highly tolerant of other cultures), and I keep up on the news.

I am not sure exactly what you are reacting to in my post - maybe the fact that I wasn't 100% on board with what Liberty said - that I disagree with the importance of Obama's name?

If you want to speak out against ignorant people who think all Muslims are evil just 'cause, then fine. Don't drag me into it because I feel the same way. Please specify exactly what I said that caused you to insult me so.

I think this will greatly help, in the same way that the actions of Matt Alexander, the senior interrigating specialist who wrote the OpEd in the Washington Post, did.

Matt said jihadists said "I thought you would torture me, and when you didn't, I decided that everything I was told about Americans was wrong. That's why I decided to cooperate."

Al Queda and the like recruit from a well supported by poverty and attitudes towards the US. Obama is an example of the US being obviously different from what the extremists are trying to paint us as. I think the solutions go far deeper than this, but this will be a positive step.

And hopefully the American public will get educated about how the majority of Muslims differ from the extremists. Good points Myst.

mydiem, thank you. It pisses me off to no end when I here people talk like that. I'm as agnostic as they come, but when people who are ignorant to the rest of the world and lump a group of people into one thing, it kills me. There are hundreds of Muslim men and women who are out in Iraq and Afghanistan right now, fighting for the United States of America, and people make dumb ass comments like they all hate America.

My parents are both military, my dad who is a Marine have been to Kuwait, Bosnia, Afghanistan, and Iraq. He trained new recruits who happen to be Muslim. He fought along side Muslim, and had Muslim take bullets for him, have seen his many of his comrades, who happen to be Muslim die in the Iraq, so for people to make this assumption that just because a person is Muslim, must mean that they are inherently evil and hate America is just positively asinine in my opinion.

And it pisses me off that members of the media and these right wing nut jobs refuse to acknowledge just how many Muslim troops who were killed defending this country.

'I am torn on the appropriateness of our President giving an address in an Islamic capital'

I'm curious - why is that Kranky?

It was this comment that caused me to lash out Kranky "I am torn on the appropriateness of our President giving an address in an Islamic capital"

I was pointed out that there are a number of Islamic capitals that Obama could choose to speak out. If you didn't mean anything by it, then I apologize. But I just get really heated when I hear people make comments like that.

Oh sure diadem-

That was a part of Liberty's post, so I felt like I should address it, but I really don't know my thoughts on it so I said I was torn.

I have no real issue with Obama giving a speech in a friendly Islamic nation, but it does seem like - historically - SOS's or diplomats of some sort are the ones who travel and make speeches. I don't have a clear understanding of why that is so often delegated or when a President would choose to go instead, so I hesitate to form an opinion.

If you could enlighten me, I would appreciate it.

Myst, I know that after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the Japanese who were living in America were rounded up and put in concentration camps. It saddens me to think what they must have gone through. I feel the same way about Muslims who live in America - some of which I work with and am friends with - but I don't think we are comparing apples to apples. This country has to do everything that is within our power to do to protect the inhabitants of our nation. And, while we may disagree, you will never catch me resorting to calling you names (like to just did to me). People like you who fly off the handled and write without abandon make me want to stop coming to this site.

OK Myst - I gotcha. Please read my response to diadem. I did not say that out of hatred, just an ignorance of how the MO works for who travels abroad and who does not.

I would have made the same response to Obama saying he was traveling to Iceland, I assure you.

Mostly, I said it because I was anticipating that people would point out that Liberty's post was not solely about Obama's name, and I was copping to the fact I couldn't form an informed opinion about it.

At the end of the day Myst, it appears we are in agreement that the average Muslim is not inherently evil. That makes me happy.

fly off the handle like this?:

"THEY HATE AMERICANS!"

Amy you beat me to it

Hey Sarah!

If he gave the speech from Amman, Jordan I don't think there would be anything controversial about it, they are an ally, in the middle of the middle east and their queen is already doing lots to build bridges between the greater Muslim community and the west.

One of Obama's advisers even suggested Dearborn, Michigan as a "Muslim capital" as a joke - I posted the news article on the speech a few days ago in a blog, the article seems to think he will pick Cairo.

"THEY HATE AMERICANS!"

hmm...who are "they" exactly? Muslims in general? Your comment wasn't exactly appropriate CC. I think Myst (as well as others) have a right to get mad at it.

Who bombed the Twin Towers????

woooow.

Um.... obviously all of the muslims in the world, ccpdm (except all of your muslim coworkers)

That works, zeze.

I didn't know I could change my middle name on facebook! I'm definitely giving myself a sweet nickname.

Why stop at Muslims? All brown people are pretty suspicious to me. Myself included.

...just read your comment Kranky, and I don't know how "who travels where" works either. I don't think it really matters though, because he seems to be wanting to do something different, something significant and not typical protocol - which I think is a pretty good idea, you know, as long as the speech is not from a pro-Al Qaeda country, and there are plenty of allies to choose from.

wow.

Ddpm, I'll apologize for call you a dumb ass but I tend to call everyone who makes comments like that dumb a**es. It's just not fair to many of the people that I know who love this country just as much as the next America, are looked and treated differently just because of their who they are and their religion.

"Who bombed the Twin Towers????"

...and you want to leave the site because people are calling YOU ignorant? why? Why would people call YOU ignorant? please...

hey come on now em I'm kind of a brown person just light complected, lol

"Why stop at Muslims? All brown people are pretty suspicious to me. Myself included."

what about Who, sent the Jews to the Holocaust or who was systematically killing Muslims in Bosnia. Terrorism is just something that's related to Muslim you know. My point in this, Terrorism doesn't know any religions.

Obama is trying to connect to average Muslims (they don't hate all Americans) NOT terrorists.
He is going to be very tough on terrorists, just watch.
But at least he won't be helping out with the recruitment of new terrorists by making other country disrespect and hate us.

His middle name which was so "unfortunate" during the campaign, may turn out to be a blessing for our country.

pinkprincess!

I'm "tinted", "tinged", or "mocha", as some of my lighter-complected fellow brown people have said. Even though I think I just look, I don't know, tan?

And IMO, anybody who understates the importance of Facebook is making a mistake.

"Yeah right, let's all kiss and make-up and just be friends. Remember 9-11????? Wake up, people. It ain't gonna happen. THEY HATE AMERICANS!"

That is a huge generalization, you do realize that, right? This post is taking about Muslim communities, not Iraq and Iran (though that would still be inaccurate). Islam is the second largest religion in the world and there are Muslim communities that might not feel welcome or respected by the US because of the current anti-Muslim sentiment here.

I think the best tool to counter terrorism in the middle east is to turn Muslims against terrorist. Most of them feel alienated by both sides right now, they feel attacked by the west for stuff that is not their fault and for their culture/beliefs and they hate the terrorists for the chaos in their countries (do you think the average Iraqi likes and supports the fact some psycho keeps blowing up the market place?).

I think this is an area where Bush should have done better, a lot better, make the extremists the enemy and befriend the average man. There is power in people, and if we could have tapped into that power, made allies instead of headlines of the average Muslim, we would have have mobs of people chasing insurgents out of towns with rocks and handing them over to American soldiers. By alienating that base we made them indifferent to us, they hated the terrorists, but they didn't like us either - so they just went on with their lives and let us and the terrorist kill each other until no end.

Think about it, most soldiers dont speak the language, dont know the culture, and can't spot the bad guy just by looking at a face or uniform - how valuable would it have been to have entire communities and their grapevines of information bringing people to us. It is already happening in Iraq in some ways, but it sure took a while! So many insurgents have been handed over by families who know whats going on by talks at prayers (where soldiers aren't allowed to go) or gossip at weddings.

zeze, you speak the truth.

em the kind of brown comment is because i am mexican american just very white/light i guess, lol