Did you guys hear? Barack Obama can't be president because he's not a natural US citizen, and the constitution says Hillary Clinton can't be Secretary of State! Well both rumors have nearly zero chance of becoming reality, but that won't stop people from trying!
A case questioning Barack Obama's US citizenship made it to the US Supreme Court today, where the justices decided against hearing the case in full. But more challenges to his citizenship follow, including a lawsuit filed by Alan Keyes, Obama's opponent in the 2004 Illinois Senate race. Obama, Hawaii, and other experts agree that the president-elect was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born citizen. To find out the questions surrounding the validity of Hillary's appointment, read more.
As for Hillary's eligibility, Article I, Section 6 of the Constitution says:
No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time.
Huh?! To boil the drama down, some say that because the salary for Secretary of State has increased from $186,600 to $191,300 since Hillary got reelected in 2006, she cannot hold the position. Congress is on track to cut the salary back to the $186,000 level and let everyone carry on.
While it looks like there won't be an issue, does it even matter if some legal technicality could disqualify Obama and Clinton so long as they're within the spirit of the Constitution?
Fontanelli
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Ugh. I heard that on the news this morning. Some lawyer from New Jersey was it? God some people will do anything.
As for Hillary--if we're on the subject of technical terms, and it says "he" on there, it clearly doesn't apply to her.
1If it could be proven that Obama is not a natural-born citizen, how would allowing him to be president be in the spirit of the Constitution?
2KadBunny I think you found the loophole! Lol.
3I've gone on record saying the "born here" rule is outdated.
Who is to say an American citizen is more or less qualified based on where their mother was during birth?
Think of people like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Jennifer Granholm...
A citizen is a citizen IMO, while the rule had logical reasons when it was written, it does not any more.
so my issue with Obama (if he is not a citizen, which I highly and completely doubt) my only issue would be dishonesty about a dumb rule.
4Why are these things making headlines and other topics like in 5 years, America will probably be attacked by either nuclear weapon or some sort of bio-attack?
5I find amusing and terrifying that people actually think that he was born in Kenya and not in Hawaii. It's scary and funny at the same time.
6Really, it's pathetic to give this crap attention.
The citizenship issue has been floating around all year and it's being pressed by the kind of people who voted twice for the most intellectually incurious president of the United States: people who didn't press the issue when that president couldn't prove he completed his National Guard service then sent thousands of American troops to two wars, people who didn't press the question of why we were going to war with Iraq despite the large number of official reports that said Saddam Hussein did not have weapons of mass destruction, people who didn't press the issue when it became clear that a CIA operative was outed by the White House for disagreeing with it, people who didn't press the issue of whether the thousands of prisoners we've taken worldwide actually are guilty of anything --but Obama's citizenship has then demanding answers.
It might be funny if it wasn't so hideously stupid.
7I thought some of the issue with Obama's citizenship had to do with him living in Indonesia and becoming a citizen there and if he relinquished his natural born US citizenship and became a naturalized citizen.
Someone always seems to point this out, so I'll take the lead on it this time: If the tables were turned and these questions were being raised about Bush and Cheney, would we all be having the same reaction?
8Alan Keyes needs to get a GD life! I swear that mans problem is not his politics it's his nasty @$$ attitude. The constituency is not going to put someone in office who has a nasty disposition and is always ranting in anger. If that equation is too complicated for him to understand than he doesn't need to be in any office.
I can see where the technicality might pose a problem with Clinton but as for Obama if he was born in Hawaii than he was born in Hawaii he's citizen I'm not sure what the problem is.
9Plus, if the Constitution needs to be amended to accept new realities, then it should be amended. It shouldn't be ignored or followed based on whims. Otherwise, what's the point of it if we're going to make up rules as we go?
10Mariner, is there any actual evidence of Obama relinguishing his citizenship? Any valid documentation?
11I don't know too many of the details, I just thought that was where the majority of the concern was centered. From what I understand (and I could be wrong), if you become a citizen of Indonesia you automatically give up your US citizenship because they don't do dual and in order to attend school there you must be a citizen. I could be wrong, I haven't done any actual research on it, but that's what I've been reading/hearing is the issue.
12I've never seen evidence that he became a citizen of Indonesia. When you look at what the claim is based on, it's kind of like reading one of those books about the Knights Templar: a teensy bit of factual information (Indonesia fought a war with Britian in the 60s), one bit of evidence (a school document) then tons of speculation of what might have happened to suit the author's purpose.
13There was far greater evidence back in the 2000 campaign that Bush once had a drinking problem (which he now admits)- but reporters were criticized for even bringing that up.
can you even relinquish ur citizenship at 8 years old?
14A child can't renounce his citizenship and his parents can't do it for him. He was born and to this day is an American citizen (and I can't believe I have to say that).
15Exactly Zeze you can't. I wish people would their heads out of their asses and realize that.
16Oh WW, I'm sure in the coming years, you'll find yourself correcting a lot of mindboggling stupid suggestions! They're just getting warmed up.
17Hey Mariner, it was good of you to play Devil's Advocate - have a great weekend!
18I had this debate this mourning on Jezebel and this one person was completely convinced that Obama (@ 8 years old) gave up his citizenship and then became a citizen again after moving back to Hawaii. Which made absolutely no sense.
19"OMG! We totally have an Indonisan, black panther Muslim terrorist who was born in Kenya for President!" 23% of Texas
20I don't mean to be one of those annoying people but I could see Obama coming really close to being assassinated by one of those 23% of Texans.
21Alan Keyes is about 20 kinds of crazy, so why am I not surprised he's behind this?
22This question is stupid. Obama was born on Hawaii to an American woman. Even if his mother had given birth to him in Kenya he'd still would be an American citizen. It happens all the freaking time. What citizenship do you think American military brats who are born off base overseas to an active duty personnel and foreign national are granted? Duh. Dual citizenship.
23Ok Steph enough with the tit for tat. I don't know enough about the specifics of each case thats in the courts, but the Bush possible drinking problem doesn't make him ineligible for office. And I think if they have a lawsuit, there must be some valid points in it. And as far as I heard, the original lawsuit was not allowed because he did not have a right to file the lawsuit on behalf of the democrat party and the citizens of the US. He was ineligible on behalf of the democrat party because he was not hired by them and was ineligible on behalf of the us citizens because Obama had not yet been elected and so Obama was not representing them yet. It was NOT thrown out because of it's merits. The Supreme Court wouldn't hear it, which is questionable. But Berg can refile it if he so chooses, and I suspect that he will. And don't throw out accusations that this is a Republican scheme because "Philip J. Berg is the former Deputy Attorney General of Pennsylvania, former candidate for Governor and US Senate in Democratic Primaries, former Chair of the Democratic Party in Montgomery County, and former member of the Democratic State Committee."
24All of the information is on Berg's website called ObamaCrimes .com
Meike, you obviously don't know th definition of a natural born citizen. It wouldn't matter where Obama was born if BOTH of his parents were US citizens, which his father was not. He is a citizen, yes. But would not be a natural born citizen if he was not burn in the us, and ONLY a natural born citizen is eligible for the presidency.
25Again, like I said, I don't know all of the details of the case, but it is worth a look. And Sh!t, it isn't like a Repub would go into office. It would be freakin' Biden. I don't know why so many people are in an uproar about people wanting to make sure the highest office in the US isn't tampered with.
From Berg's website, "this man lied and cheated his way into a fraudulent candidacy and cheated legitimately eligible natural born citizens from competing in a fair process and the supporters of their citizen choice for the nomination." All I am saying is worth a look without all the tit for tat, your candidate BLAH BLAH BLAH. Just because stuff was done before, doesn't make it right. And If you are for equality for all officials, then it goes both ways. You can't just say, "well it happened before with a repub, so this man needs to skate by" when does it stop. Someone has to be an adult and say, I know this was my candidate, but if he's done something wrong, then he's done something wrong!
26This is all a bunch of nonsense.
27Current Indonesian law states that an Indonesian citizen cannot hold another nationality – in other words Indonesian law does not recognise or allow for dual citizenship. Different rules apply to children who have one Indonesian parent and one non-Indonesian parent. Further information regarding dual citizenship for children in these circumstances should be sought from the relevant Indonesian authorities.
You should check the requirements for taking out Indonesian Citizenship directly with Indonesian authorities.
Child Eligibility
The Decree of Ministry of Law and Human Rights defines child entitles to Indonesian citizenship, with the following categories:
1. Child born in a legal wedlock of an Indonesian father and alien mother;
2. Child born in a legal wedlock of an alien father and Indonesian mother;
3. Child born out of wedlock of an alien mother acknowledged by the Indonesian father and such acknowledgement must be done before the child reaches 18 years of age or unmarried;
4. Child born outside the territory of Republic of Indonesia of an Indonesian parent and given by the local citizenship laws granted such citizenship to the child. It means that the country where the child was born holds ius sanguinis principles that the citizenship of the child follows the parent;
5. Child of an Indonesian citizen born out of legal wedlock, under age of 18, and unmarried legally acknowledged by the alien father;
6. Child of an Indonesian parent under the age of 5 (five) legally adopted by the foreigner based on a court decree.
The eligible children must be aged below 18 years old or unmarried, otherwise they must go with normal naturalization process in order to obtain the Indonesian citizenship.
For more information:
28http://www.indonesia.embassy.gov.au/jakt/Citizenship.html
http://balipod.com/bali-visa-questions-and-answers-f42/becoming-indonesi...
http://www.expat.or.id/info/mixmarriages.html
http://www.buyusa.gov/indonesia/en/107.html
http://www.indonesia-ottawa.org/information/details.php?type=news_copy&i...
http://www.indonesiaseoul.org/rubrik/view.php?kat=7&id=27051
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United States v. Wong Kim Ark 169 U.S. 649: A person born within the jurisdiction of the U.S. to non-citizens who "are not employed in any diplomatic or official capacity" is automatically a citizen.
Perkins v. ELG, 307 U.S. 325 (1939): The US Supreme Court found that a Miss Elg, born of one naturalized US citizen and one foreigner, a Swedish citizen, in Brooklyn, New York was a citizen of the United States. It was somewhat vague about whether she was a natural born citizen or not. By contrast, this decision noted that a Mr. Steinkauler, born in St. Louis, Missouri to two U.S. citizen parents (at least one a naturalized citizen born in Prussia) was a "native-born citizen".
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Requirements for citizenship and the very definition thereof have changed since the Constitution was ratified in 1788. Congress first recognized the citizenship of children born to U.S. parents overseas on March 26, 1790, under the first naturalization law: "And the children of citizens of the United States that may be born beyond sea, or outside the limits of the United States, shall be considered as natural born citizens.
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Fourteenth Amendment
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Section 2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
Section 3. No one shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.
Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural-born_citizen
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29The special term "Natural Born Citizen" is used in particular as a requirement for eligibility to serve as President or Vice President of the United States. Section 1 of Article II of the Constitution contains the clause:
“ No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
Hmmm... My dad was an Indonesian citizen. He's def. older than Obama (and he's moved to US and became a citizen here in the early 90s).
I remember him mentioning something about the immigration law in the 60s awhile back (this is WAY b4 the presidential election).
I shall ask him and members of his family if it's true during that time that was the law (anyone who comes to live in Indonesia must be citizen).
30Thanks, Steph, you too! I tend to agree it's all baloney and the people pushing it in the media come off as wackos, but it would be nice for someone to sit down and put this all to bed once and for all. If something fishy were up, it should be addressed.
31One must be a natural born citizen to be eligible for the presidency. A natural born citizen is DIFFERENT than a naturalized citizen. If you don't know the difference I beg you to wiki it.
32It would have been interesting to hear the High Court define "natural born citizen."
I was curious as to whether they would bother to answer the question of whether one could bring a lawsuit without specific damages, and I suppose they did more or less answer that question.
33ObamaCrimes.com? That sounds like a very fair and unbiased resource. Thanks Hain!
34Haha, considering most of the stories around here are pulled from Huffpo, I think we should start complaining about biased sources more often.
35You know honestly this isn't going to come to anything. There is no point getting worked up about it because Obama is our president and Hillary is going to be our Secretary of State. Like it or not, it's not going to change.
36Sad, sad, this makes me sad.
37Look at this photo, it almost looks like a painting.
38You heard it here first: Obama has aged.
39wow.
Harmony you're so right..obama supporters are going to say this is nonsense (which is it is
) and Rep.'s are going to say there HAS to be some truth behind it.
40LOL Janneth!
There are some pictures of him where he looks good and others that aren't great angles..bad lighting maybe?
41"You heard it here first: Obama has aged."
..ummm you're a bit behind on that one, he turned gray late in the primaries, he even thanked Hillary for the gray hairs at some event.
42The Clinton thing is not a rumor. It's an obvious problem that is about to be rectified by an act of congress, who obviously disregard the constitution as well.
The ineligibility of Clinton is clear in the wording of the clause, even if Congress lowers the pay of the position.
"No Senator or Representative shall, during the Time for which he was elected, be appointed to any civil Office under the Authority of the United States which shall have been created, or the Emoluments whereof shall have been increased during such time"
Can a senator hold the office after the emoluments (compensation) have been increased? No.
Has the emolument (compensation) been increased? Yes.
Ergo, Hillary Clinton is ineligible by the letter of the law.
43The highest law of the land makes no mention of being able to circumvent such a law by decreasing the pay.
Oops, sorry. I thought I had something new...
44No one who ever voted for George W. Bush has any right to quote the Constitution to the rest of us.
45Looks like I retain my right to quote the constitution.
46organic- job of interpreting constitution is for the Supreme Court, not you.
47Does anyone else notice you get paid nearly 200,000 dollars to be a friggin Senator!?!?!
48"No one who ever voted for George W. Bush has any right to quote the Constitution to the rest of us."
Read: Quit bringing facts to the debate. They hurt.
"organic- job of interpreting constitution is for the Supreme Court, not you."
Read: Quit bringing facts to the debate. They hurt.
49lol, beavis, exactly what I was thinking.
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