I think its a good note to go out on.

It is a good message, though to be nitpicky, I would have also pointed out that another great part of our society is the freedom to not worship at all if one chooses not to

I really liked what the Pakistani president said, too.

I'm sure he left leaders from Islamic countries shaking their heads.

I could not agree more, stephley. I'm actually shaking my head right now, myself.

Jude, I really liked the Pakistani president's words, too.

Ok, I didn't even notice that he said the right to worship however you want is "GOD'S gift to every man, woman, and child".?!?!

OH, George...

Dear President Bush,

When you talk about promoting religious freedom while supporting abstinence only education, the global gag rule, and a constitutional ban on gay marriage, (all things that aim to make your religious views into law) you sound like a big, stupid, douche bag.

Kisses,
TS

Even with the best intentions, he just can't get it out right...

give him a break already people. He did a fine job. I don't see how the islamic people would be "shaking their heads"??? They have a god his name is "Allah" The only people that I could see shaking their heads would would be athiests. nit pick everything. There is a democrat that will be our new president, you think you can get over the bush bashing already???

Amen, Hainan57. Thank GOD somebody said it! The vast majority of this country believes in God. When our leaders make references to Him, if you don't like it...leave the country.

It's not Bush bashing to point out that his administration helped make "Muslim" such a scary word in the past 8 years that his party's presidential campaign constantly tried to use it to damage the Democrat opposition.

A majority of the voters in this country think your boy did a crap job as president - so if majority's the measure we're going by, you'll need to back down.

Oh sure sugasuga29 let's just diss all the people who don't believe in a God--why should what the think matter, right?

Regardless of what the vast majority believes, the Constitution guarantees religious freedom, so if you don't like that you should leave the country.

THANK YOU, TS!!

Hmm, this reminds me of one word. Oh yeah, "hypocrisy".

Yes, Meike, it's sad how people think the rights of people are limited to the ways that others think. Lord forbid (pun intended) that others have different views than them and that they are not entitled to the same rights.

"Bush maintained that freedom to worship as you want is "God's gift to every man, woman, and child."

I find it interesting how Gods gift of freedom to worship as we want to every man, woman, and child as President Bush states it does not apply to same sex marriage. This is the hypocrisy and two faced reasoning that drives me crazy. If you believe it apply it, otherwise bite your F'ing tongue.

Very nice message, yes, sir. If only he had said that 8 years ago and ACTUALLY applied it. He claims to support Muslins but has attacked them, and everyone who doesn't think like him, all this long? Please. Go away, Bush. I won't believe anything you say.

Remember when Bush freaked out in 2004 when someone in a crowd was wearing a Barack Obama pin (or was holding a sign, I can't exactly remember). He saw a Muslim name that looked kind of like Osama and he went mental. Not a lot of tolerance there, just a lot of ignorance.

That being said, the message is a good one except why does he have to say all the 'God's gift' stuff. If we have an atheist president someday do you think he is going to be constantly reminding us about his believe there is no God? If we have a Hindu president will they talk about Gods plural all the time? If we are the example of religious freedom in the world then even if most of the country is Christian or at least monotheist can't we just not bring it up all the time? I would just feel better if he left the God talk out of it.

well i think that it's really relevant to where we are today - with all the issues that have been rising around the world - religious freedom has always been on the top of the list since that's something that kind of stems the challenges that a lot of nations face. i guess if he's going to make his last hurrah - then this wasn't a bad way to do it.

>And Steph- Muslim is the only large religion in the world right now that (at least some large factions of it)encourages violence in the name of their god.

For starters, the religion is called Islam, and its people are Muslim.

Further, it's ridiculous to say Islam is the only large religion encouraging violence. First, because Islam does not encourage violence, but second because all major religions have rogue factions that are violent.

The misinformation spread in this world is breathtaking.

I disagree that Americans - and Bush - are anti-Muslim.

I clearly remember Bush saying after 9/11 that the terrorists 'hijacked a great religion.' Yes, he has pushed for the 'War on Terror,' but I don't think he has pushed for intolerance against Muslims. Please correct me if I am wrong.

As for Americans, maybe it's because I live in a pretty liberal place, but I don't see a lot of anti-Muslim sentiment. I see the Muslim community here thriving, and no one denies their freedom to worship. Yes, intolerance does exist to a small degree, but I would say that it could be a lot worse. Look at Europe.

And freedom of religion means freedom to worship in the way you choose. It has nothing to do with being anti-gay, anti-birth control, etc. I am not going to defend Bush's positions, but I do think that some of you are taking his words about out of context for the purpose of complaining about him.

FINALLY (sorry this is running long...) TS - what is the 'global gag rule'? I haven't heard of that.

I don't care if Bush is personally against birth control or gay people. But it seems ridiculous for him to be talking about religious freedom when he's trying to make the rules of his religion into law.

The global gag rule was reinstated by Bush on his first day in office and basically it's that international organizations cannot receive U.S. funds if they disseminate any information on abortions. No referrals, no discussion of the consequences of unsafe abortions, nothing, even where abortion is legal, even if they're not using the U.S. funds for it.

"Further, it's ridiculous to say Islam is the only large religion encouraging violence. First, because Islam does not encourage violence, but second because all major religions have rogue factions that are violent."

I'm going to take this opportunity to put some information out there that might help people understand this stereotype better.

Islam has five essential pillars (duties and actions), which include things like praying five times a day, giving alms, going to Mecca, etc.

The Shi'a (minority) sect have a sixth pillar - jihad. It is important to note that not all Shi'a see jihad as essential to their faith.

Jihad is essentially rules for defense of Muslim people and faith. It is very clear about NOT HARMING INNOCENTS and NOT DESTROYING PRODUCTIVE PROPERTY.

Unfortunately, jihad has come to mean something very different to us Westerners, and has been used by those rogue factions that TS talked about in a very twisted way.

So, to sum things up... yes, the Muslim faith does have tenants or rules for war-making. But clearly, the original (and I will add) most popular understanding of jihad has nothing to do with terrorism whatsoever.

Thanks for reading.

Bush didnt make Muslim a bad word, Bad muslims did.

I still love you GW!

"Bush didnt make Muslim a bad word, Bad muslims did."

Well said CG

He talks about religious freedom and then says it is "God's gift" ...hmmm

TS - Thanks for the info about the gag order. You said he reinstated it... who 'instated' it?

As for Bush making his religion into law - I have to disagree with that sentiment. To my knowledge, Bush has never targeted the gay population, and there is more than religion behind his stance on abortion.

>As for Bush making his religion into law - I have to disagree with that sentiment. To my knowledge, Bush has never targeted the gay population, and there is more than religion behind his stance on abortion.

Well, in 2004 he called for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage. I'd say that's targeting the gay population.

As for making his religious views into law, he pushed for abstinence-until-marriage education. Which means he thinks government funded schools should be teaching that I as a grown woman should not be having sex with my manfriend.

I don't know if his views on abortion are tied to religion. I suspect they are, but I can see how someone would oppose abortions on all kinds of non-religious grounds, so I will concede that one.

TS - thanks for the info about the gay marraige ban (I did say, 'To my knowledge...'). Good to know - I certainly won't make THAT argument again.

There is more to the abstinence stance than just a moral or religious argument. There are reasons to abstain that have nothing to do with sinnin'... it isn't ALL about making women feel guilty about having urges.

Let's not forget he was all for prayer in public schools.

"The Bush administration is clearly trying to push the envelope on behalf of prayer in public schools," said AU's Lynn. "Administration lawyers have selectively read case law to come to the conclusions they wanted."

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3944/is_200303/ai_n9170697

>TS - thanks for the info about the gay marraige ban (I did say, 'To my knowledge...'). Good to know - I certainly won't make THAT argument again. Smiling

>There is more to the abstinence stance than just a moral or religious argument. There are reasons to abstain that have nothing to do with sinnin'... it isn't ALL about making women feel guilty about having urges.

You're welcome for the info. I'm kosher with most opinions as long as they are rooted in facts.

What interest does the government possibly have in my sex life if not moral or religious? Teen sex, okay, but why "abstinence until marriage"? Why not "abstinence until you're a grown up"?

I think it is funny my comment was deleted, yet many sections of it were used in many other peoples post, but that is ok??? Was it that I felt complaining about Bush stance on gay marriage is completely off thread and against community rules?

Seriously.. how many "adult" men have you met that act like grown-ups? There would be lots of pent-up men out there if they had to wait until they matured to get somethin'.

Back to your question... seems like you are educated and providing for yourself. I don't think that the abstinence-thing is aimed at your market share. There have been tons of studies (I don't have them at my fingertips, but can try to find them before I leave work if requested) that link poverty to pre-marital sex before graduating high school (the main point there being with two incomes, it is much easier to raise a family). So that's an economic reason.

There have also been a number of studies that show kids don't use birth control correctly - I dunno, would that be an ADHD reason? Medical? It's not moral.

Also, studies have shown that the rising rates of pre-marital sex have led to a general social breakdown. It's a stretch, but some studies tie a lack of sexual restraint to lower graduation rates, higher crime, etc.

I realize that's a lot to throw at you with not a lot of back-up material. But, I do think it's a start to thinking about why abstinance is not JUST a moral policy.

girlA - I am admittedly not up on this issue, but it does seem to fall in line with the 'freedom of religion' thing. Bush is not forcing people to pray. He is advocating that people be ALLOWED to pray.

Okay, I can compromise on abstinence until you're educated and providing for yourself.

aI always like to think of the health risks that are associated with birth control, and the cost of healthcare due to STD's. I don't see a problem in teaching abstinence until you are ready to face the consequences of pregnancy,stds, complications etc... And I agree with undave, I don't think it is aimd at you, but it might be good to convince people not to have sex, just to have sex.

I guess for me, it's about the separation of church and state and there are plenty of churches and parochial schools to go around.

TS: deal! (Provided we define educated as graduated from High School.)

Glad we solved that problem. I'm expecting headlines in our honor next week.

girlA-

I do see your point. But not everyone can afford those schools and freedom to worship IS freedom to worship.

They can't worship at home?

"There have been tons of studies (I don't have them at my fingertips, but can try to find them before I leave work if requested) that link poverty to pre-marital sex before graduating high school (the main point there being with two incomes, it is much easier to raise a family)."

Kind of selective about what studies we want to act on aren't we? You question the science linking smog and lung disease, yet when it fits a certain moral theory, the studies are enough without absolute proof. Bristol Palin and Jamie Lynn Spears immediately contradict the poverty pre-marital sex link. And before you can blame premarital sex for general societal breakdown, you'd have to establish when society was at its peak and whether people were telling the truth about premarital intimacy then. Remember, there was a time when teenaged daughters of better families suddenly went away to visit distant relatives for seven-eight months without explanation.

Sugasuga- you always have such a Christian way about you, preaching tolerance, love of your neighbor. You remind me of why Christians are the backbone of this country.

I love how in a post about Bush touting religious tolerance and freedom, a commenter thinks it's appropriate to say, "When our leaders make references to Him, if you don't like it...leave the country."

Really? Simply not liking the theocratic nature of our current administration is enough for someone to think I should leave this country? What if someone doesn't like Obama's environmental policy or something, is the best advice to give them: "leave the country!"?

I think you are right snow. I don't think you should leave the country. There is plenty room for free thinkers in our society. I wish in general we would not resort to calling names or questioning someones intentions, abut rather speak of the policies of our law makers. On that note, I don't think our country should be changed, and changing it from it's current capitalistic state to something more socialist (and against the constitution) is wrong, and in that situation, if you disagree with that, that would be the only situation in which to leave. I really hope that didnt come out wrong...