Hahahahahahaaha

I, for one, take this sort of thing very seriously.

i don't understand the laughter? gabiushka, can you explain?

Ooh, you're developing your Citizen voice well:
"Does it anger you to see people be proud on a part-time basis? Or is it good to see excitement where there was once apathy?"

It might not have been apathy - it could have been a sense of defeat, disappointment or embarrassment at the way our government has behaved.

Very good point Stef. I was wondering how others feel about this.

It's sad how much the Bush Administration has made America look so arrogant and stupid. I knew the second Obama got elected that our standing in the world would be restored and that other countries would once again respect us. I hope that only continues.

I was sad when the flag was hijacked and came to be something mostly for people who supported the Patriot Act and the war in Iraq, so it makes me happy to see it being waved by Brooklyn hipsters.

"Does it anger you to see people be proud on a part-time basis? Or is it good to see excitement where there was once apathy?"

I reject the premise of this question.

And quite honestly I'm a bit appalled that you were able to write it and pose it to us with sincerity. I'm extremely disappointed.

I don't want to linger in the past any more than I must but I still am amazed that so many people around the world can feel the same way about Bush's administration (cause this wasn't about one man, he was just the face) and so many Americans respond with the equivalent of "So? Who cares?"

This is........millions..of people....around..the globe...of varying religions, ethnicities, nationalities, ages, sexes and locations...saying "thank God THAT's over".

No way was that apathy.

Um... we elected a black president 3 days ago. NOTHING has changed yet. I think this really says something about how valid it was of these countries to have such a distaste in us to begin with.

TS- Um, come again? They could have waved those flags any time at all. They weren't claimed by anyone, they didn't all of a sudden have some new meaning. It's the American flag. Always has been always will be. If a certain person refuses to display that flag proudly until things go their way in an election, then how sincere IS it? Come on, that's just as meaningless and stupid as that group of people who waved flags just to symbolize their support of the war.
Personally, I don't care WHO thinks the flag is the latest trend and for what reason, I'm proud to wave it around any damn day.

Um, um, um.

Obviously anyone can wave a flag anytime they like. Post 9/11, though, a lot of people used it to symbolize something besides just being happy to be an American.

I wont say anything negative because it's unnecessary I am just filled with hope that America with the help of Obama and his administration can truly turn itself around and become the "great" nation that it proclaims that it is.

Okay? And how is that different from people basically using it to symbolize "Yay we won the election. Go Obama!"?
And yeah, don't worry- I was already embarrassed about starting 2 posts with "um." Big thanks.

I think it's better to wave a flag because you're happy about something that happened in the country than because you're happy we went to war.

First of all, the statement that they're waving it because they're happy about war is probably off-base for a lot of people. I think for most, it was meant to symbolize that the country isn't going to bow down to terrorists and that the troops kick ass.
That being said, maybe a small minority of people used the flags as a symbol of happiness over the war, but I still don't get how that's somehow LESS shallow/inclusive/whatever than using it as a symbol of happiness over the election. Wasn't your general point that no group should "hijack" the flag to mean something more than just pride in country? And if that wasn't your point, I guess I just don't see why it would be okay for one group to twist the symbolism and not another.

My general point was that for a while some people didn't want to rock a flag for fear of being mistaken for someone who supported the war, who liked George Bush, who was a-ok with the patriot act, etc. Those are not things I like. So I'm happy to see the flag waved for things I do like: hipsters in Brooklyn and Barack Obama.

"We have fallen in love with the new, the different, the good America."

that's because there's not a Republican in office anymore well as of January 20.

Oh and black president why not just president people don't go around saying that white president maybe that idiot president (bush)

Barack Obama likes the Patriot Act.

I can understand that, I suppose. Although I still think that fear is not a very valid one, and it's kind of a lame excuse for not displaying the flag. Oh well though, whatever gets people sporting red white and blue again.

Pink- You've got to be kidding me. I don't know how many Democrats I've seen celebrating the nations first black President in the past few days, but it's a LOT. Unless you're sensitive about them too, I think that's kind of nit-picking.
And besides, saying that they're only happy because a Republican won't be in office any more only furthers my thought that their distaste for America is pretty shallow. If it's as simple as something like Democrat-vs-Republican, then we're RIGHT to say "Oh well" in response to other countries' disapproval.

In all my hours of canvassing, the only people who were so against Obama that they rudely shooed me away were either wearing flags or had them on their house. When I lived in the South, you almost never saw a flag sticker unless it was on the back of an SUV with a W sticker or a Support the Troops sticker next to it.

I'm not saying I like it or that everyone who displays a flag is necessarily a certain way. Just that I wouldn't want people thinking I am that way. Which sucks because I am a child of a military family, fiercely patriotic, and used to have a flag up and wear a neat flag t-shirt I had all the time.

And org, I know Obama voted for the Patriot Act. He also wears a flag pin. Coincidence...?

it's the same america people!!

im sure people of all race color age are celebrating our new president but other then the media no one atleast that i know of are going around saying we just elected a black president as oppose to we just made history, to each there own

I don't see what having a Support the Troops sticker next to the flag has to do with your point. Does Support the Troops all of a sudden secretly mean "Support the war" now too?
Like I said, if it truly did make you uncomfortable to wear the flag, then great. I'm happy for you that you'll feel better about it now that hipsters wave flags. All I'm saying is that from where I'm sitting, it doesn't seem like a valid fear.

their sorry

I really don't think I need to explain how "supporting the troops" is tied up in supporting the war. Many, many people conflate the two, and frequently those who expressed opposition to the war were accused of not supporting the troops.

There's nothing hard and fast here. I'm not saying everyone who has a support the troops sticker supports the war or that everyone who has a flag sticker on their car liked Bush.

I support my troops but not the stupid war our stupid president seeked out (Iraq) i supported Afghanistan

Is there a handbook for all this secret symbolism at the bookstore? Honestly, I think that it's kind of a cycle. Maybe some people don't sport flags or yellow ribbons because they genuinely don't want to be confused with supporting the war or Bush, but I also think that if the flags/ribbons are being misinterpreted that way, it's probably because GOP typically are the ones showing their support for troops and the country. If more people from all walks of live would just stop getting over their "Yuck, I don't want to look like I'm friends with THEM" bullcrap and pulled together, maybe these things wouldn't have twisted symbolism anymore. I mean, it's no more the fault of Bush supporters than it is of non-Bush supporters.
Ack- run on sentences.

After 9/11 we were a country united but so much has happened to tear us from that unity. Now with the economy the way it is it seems like the American dream is impossible but with Obama becoming president we can be hopeful anybody can accomplish what they work for and our kids can have hope in their future. We can work together starting fresh to make a better country. That's why we're proud of our country, we see that opportunity for all is not dead.

I mean, if there's a pile of flags and I pick up a bunch of them and then you don't pick up any because you don't want to be associated with me, then whose fault is it that people will only think of ME when they see a flag?

I don't care if I like the people who wave flags. I didn't like a lot of the people I met living in the south, and I don't care for a lot of hipsters. It's about what they're using the flag or stickers to represent.

LMAO... wrong window. Disregard the picture!!! *scampers back to CSalt*

That settles that.

Well TS, that just brings us back to square one, where I said that it's no less lame to use the flag to represent happiness over an election's outcome.

"My general point was that for a while some people didn't want to rock a flag for fear of being mistaken for someone who supported the war, who liked George Bush, who was a-ok with the patriot act, etc. Those are not things I like."

THIS is what you said your point was, and that is what I was disputing.

I'm still red faced with embarrassment over the picture. I will double, nay- TRIPLE, check my windows from now on. =X

I loathe the idea that we must outwardly show our love for our country in form of flying a flag and wearing flag pins or our patriotism is questioned.

And it's disgusting to assume that just because people were celebrating Obama's win with flags that they were previously unpatriotic. Are people who bring the flags out on the 4th of July only patriotic 1 day a year?

Patriotism lies within and can manifest itself in much more meaningful ways.

Hmm. Must have been a private post. "True Song is so lame. She doesn't like flags. I bet she also wears ugly dresses LIKE THIS!"

Am I close? : )

I'm still not even sure where we disagree. I don't want to wave a flag if I think it will make someone think I supported Bush or the war or things I don't like. It's not that I care if I'm associated with those people, though. Like, my mom has a flag sticker on her SUV. It's not that I don't like her.

Ha! No, we're discussing how awful the dress was in Pretty in Pink. Like, how was that dress cute even in the 80s??
We talk about hard hitting stuff in CSalt.

Pop- I didn't say that those people weren't patriotic before, and nor do I think that. I just think it's silly to ever not sport a flag because some people that like to cover their belongings with flags are idiots. Thaz all.

Eh. I don't want people to think I'm an idiot. And it's not super important to me that people driving by my house or passing me on the freeway know that I am a patriot. I hesitated to put an Obama sticker on my car, too, to be honest. Just not much of a sticker person in general, I guess.

Also- I don't think we need to display our patriotism with flags at all. I'm kind of insulted that you would even make that assumption based on the things I've said. Once again, I just think that if you want to display your flags, you shouldn't ever feel afraid, intimidated, turned off, or anything and NOT do so. IF YOU WANT TO.

Wait, I don't think she meant you, personally, you foxie don't think people are patriotic without a flag. But look at the big honkin' deal people made when Obama didn't wear one.

Gotcha.
Seriously though... what an ugly dress.

foxie - so sorry - I totally wasn't directing my comment at you.

I'm actually just still really angry about the post itself.

And yes, def an ugly dress!

Yes. So very ugly. But I wonder what from this time period we will regret in 20 years.

"Does it anger you to see people be proud on a part-time basis? Or is it good to see excitement where there was once apathy? "

Yeah, we could seriously turn this into a patriotic pissing contest, would that really be great? How many GOPers were waving flags after the election and celebrating? How many conservative talking heads are saying, "I'm so proud of my country right now, let me go hang this flag"?

I am always proud of my country, but I don't see why I need to prove I'm patriotic when I disapprove of some of the things that my country is doing.

And really, True Song is right, the flag/eagle/support the troops stickers did become associated with war efforts after 9/11. "These colors don't run," things like that. And since I didn't really support the war, I didn't think it was appropriate to put an "America, f*ck yeah!" bumper sticker on my car. But it didn't mean I wasn't happy and grateful to be a citizen, it's just that the symbols of patriotism did come to me to be symbolism of the GOP.

And Foxie, Europeans and other countries aren't just excited because America has a black president, they're happy that we will have a president that isn't going to spout such war-loving rhetoric, and a leader who will favor diplomacy over guns, and truly use force as a last resort. No one likes a bully.

I really shouldn't go here, but fascist govt's. really played on their citizens' sense of patriotism. I mean, Hitler had parades and rallies and symbolism and used it all to inspire the Germans to blindly follow him. I'm glad my liberal self gets to wave the flag a bit for a change, but still, I'll always have a health sense of skepticism when it comes to blindly following everything a govt. will tell me to do.

Snow- what I'm saying is that the country was just as divided in this country as it was in the last election. We have a new President, but we, as Americans, are pretty much the same. So why should other countries like us more? Particularly to the point where now we should flaunt our Americanness when we travel. Doesn't make sense to me.