Sad culture...but that picture of Ellen is awesome

All cultures are equal.

"All cultures are equal."

:rofl:

.. including Nazis, right? You must have taken ANTH101 as well.

*sodomy is an offense that is punctuated with a 20-year sentence*

How do they really enforce rules like this????????? Do they install secret cameras in everyone's house or something? crazyness

I think in time, most of these "laws" will be tossed aside for more progressive ways of thinking and living. I think, in the end, common sense prevails. The USA is an example. At one time, owning slaves was legal; women and other minorities couldn't vote; but all that, and a lot more injustices, have changed over time. I think the same will happen in countries like Malaysia - commons sense will prevail.

Since these laws are based on their religious beliefs, I don't see them changing. America is diferent in that the laws aren't based on any particular religion. Also, the examples you've used aren't necessarily immoral, just cultural idiologies.

Although I would argue that religion progresses and interpretation of religion often changes with time.

These laws are bogus. It's like abortion being illegal in most Latin countries. It will just take homosexuality underground.

These secular nations are kind of quaint. Just the fact that Fatwas exist kind of puts a wedge between the West.

I won't disagree with you on that with some aspects (like involvement by women in the leadership of the church, for example). But there are some things that would shake the foundation of the religion too much to be changed.

Haha, Ellen! She cracks me up. I've got to go to a taping of her show.

Those fatwas are utterly ridiculous.

I think it is important to remember that a "fatwa" does not apply to all of Islam - so calling this "Islam's New Forbidden Ism" is a stretch - this will only be followed by people who follow that cleric that issued the fatwa - for example there are all sorts of lunatic fatwas in Saudi Arabia, that, like this one, don't apply and are not recognized by the vast majority of the billion Muslims in the world.

Something tells me that most Muslims don't follow a lot of Fatwas...like kill Solomon Rushdie on site.

Haha, yeah.

they don't want to kill Salman Rushdie anymore, they dropped that, but it is still an extremist position. Sodomy is or was until recently illegal in many states as well.

But the U S societal changes having to do with female suffrage and slavery were not due to common sense prevailing. It was because of protests and civil disobedience and law suits and marches.

Exactly, zeze.

kranky, being a Nazi isn't really a "culture."

'kranky, being a Nazi isn't really a "culture."'

Okay... it was just a manifestation of the greater German culture a the time that is still reverberating through contemporary German culture.

(Watch out - I have my Masters in Applied Anthropology. I can argue this one until the cows come home.)

Point being - the 'cultural relativism' argument is a lost cause, though people really work at it.

But, I was mostly having fun with organicsugar's comment.

This isn't exactly new, it's just rewording their interpretation of something from Islamic jurisprudence that goes back almost 1400 years. Dressing like the other gender is frowned upon equally for men and women.

The 20 years for sodomy sounds made up by Malaysia's government, because in Islamic jurisprudence I believe the actual crime is zinah (fornication outside of marriage,) which applies equally to either gender. The punishment I recall is lashes for an unmarried person and stoning to death for a married person committing adultery.

But before anyone takes that too literally, there is also a very strict burden of proof: eyewitnesses of irrefutable character. Some schools go with pregnancy or confessing as evidence as well. It's pretty rare these days to have someone stoned to death for zinah, or even lashed. There have been some high profile cases in Nigeria and the Middle East in recent years. Different schools of fiqh interpret some of these laws differently.

But I love my short hair!

And Ellen IS AWESOME!

I'm just amused that hair length and dress of clothing is inherently male or female. I mean I was born with longer hair and in a dress and when I hit puberty...wow the hair just exploded and the dress got more poofy.

As a child, I was frequently mistaken for a boy (thanks, Mom, for the ASIAN BOWL CUT). But that wasn't as bad as how often my brother got mistaken for a pretty little girl!

I got mistaken for a girl, but that was because my older sister played dress-up with me, and put me in a dress...

And then took you out in public...

And took pictures!!

Are they on the Internet?

Asian bowl cut...nice. You should post them. Nothing beats my super, super curly/frizzy, sun bleached auburn hair, with my brown skin. I looked like a tribal heathen.

But I was spared the pictures, thanks mom.

My mom also went through a phase of having my hair permed until I looked like some unfortunate poodle.

I was also spared too many pictures.

Fortunately, this was before the digital era, so no, they aren't on the internet.

UnDave, I am gonna hunt down your family, scan those photos and get them posted as a feature on sugar!!!

"All cultures are equal."

No! Female genital mutilation, selling people into slavery, the subjugation of women is NOT equal to a culture that celebrates human rights and civil rights. No culture is perfect, but accepting something as ok, just because another country or even US state's culture accepts it is just absurd. Is morality only applicable on a person by person basis? I think there is nothing wrong with one culture rejecting another culture's oppressive policies.

And mswender is correct that sodomy was illegal in many states in the US until fairly recently also! And in many states in the US, gay people still aren't allowed to get married! Craziness...

Note to self: Don't tell Martini where I live in Colorado...(oops)

Heh heh heh....you conveniently forget, UnDave...I used to work for the Feds - I can find you!

Hahaha, "Asian Bowl Cut"...well if you asked my mom, she just wanted me to look like "Dorothy Hamill" at the time.....

I am convinced what screwed up my youth was that my mother cut my hip-length blonde hair into what I can only call the "Asian Bowl Cut: Blonde Version".

It was...horrible.

All cultures are not equal. The have the potential to be, but any culture that treats women and gays as second-class citizens, and punishes homosexual activity with a possible 20-year jail sentence is not equal in my book. You can't be equal when some of your citizens are anything but. I can only hope that eventually these uber-strict religious tenets will relax and evolve.