In 2001 John McCain voted against the Bush tax cuts, part of which Barack Obama now wants to let expire (while keeping some in place). In 2000, McCain shared a take on the progressive tax system, which deviates from the one he has now. He confronted a question from the daughter of "Joe the Doctor" who asked McCain at a 2000 townhall: "Why is it that someone like my father, who goes to school for 13 years, gets penalized in a huge tax bracket because he's a doctor?" McCain responded:
[You're] questioning the fundamentals of a progressive tax system where people who make more money pay more in taxes than a flat, across-the-board percentage. . . . But I believe that when you really look at the tax code today, the very wealthy, because they can afford tax lawyers and all kinds of loopholes, really don't pay nearly as much as you think they do when you just look at the percentages. And I think middle-income Americans, working Americans, when the account and payroll taxes, sales taxes, mortgage pay — all of the taxes that working Americans pay, I think they — you would think that they also deserve significant relief, in my view.
Well now McCain is taking Obama to task for "socialist" plans such as restoring taxes on those making $250,000 to Clinton-era levels. Some say the latest tactic isn't about tax policy as much as it is about exploiting a cultural divide. To see why, read more.
One McCain critic notes that J. Edgar Hoover used the term socialist to describe African-Americans fighting for equality, such as Martin Luther King, Jr., that could not be trusted due to their un-American values. Add in comments from McCain that Obama wants to turn the IRS into a giant "welfare agency" by potentially giving a tax-credit check to those who pay zero in taxes, and suspicion that he's using code words increases among skeptics. Barack has fought back: "The only 'welfare' in this campaign is John McCain's plan to give another $200 billion in tax cuts to the wealthiest corporations in America."
Socialism is a treasonous word in America, paradoxically a country with many socialistic policies like the progressive income tax, medicare, and a $700 billion bailout of banks. Do you share Republican Colin Powell's disappointed sentiment conveyed in his ironic remarks: "Mr. Obama is now a socialist because he dares to suggest that maybe we ought to look at the tax structure that we have." Has the McCain campaign's latest narrative crossed the line?
D&G
Chloe
Morgan
Of course it doesn't "cross the line". Whether you agree with the statement or not, it's an important conversation to have. We need to understand what our elected politicians are actually supporting. Making factual words like "socialist" taboo does not help promote rational discussion.
1I think it's like tossing around the word Nazi - it makes the accuser sound as if they aren't clear enough on the meaning of the word or the concept to warrant a serious conversation.
2"One McCain critic notes that J. Edgar Hoover used the term socialist to describe African-Americans fighting for equality"
Where can I find the handbook for totally random "racist" terms so I don't get accused of racism for no good reason?
3YES --because if Obama is on then McCain is one too!!
McCain was for "Socialism", before he was against it...
4http://teamsugar.com/group/1046120/blog/2397324
Its completely within bounds to call some of Obama's policies socialist... because they are!
Then when you couple that with his need of approval from European nations who are socialist or nearly entirely socialist, well, it doesn't bode well.
5•one
6i do take issue with this "Socialism is a treasonous word in America"
I don't find that to be the case at all. Just read the comments on this website, many people here seem to love socialism and communism in all its forms.
7Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh --ok
8'Nazi' is an inherently negative word, 'Socialist' is not. I'm really not sure how calling Obama's policies what they are shows that you don't have a clear enough understanding of the word to converse about it.
It's silly to be offended by the word. If you think he's not a socialist, or that a certain policy isn't socialist, then say so and argue your point. Don't assume things about the people using the term.
9Is anything off limits in this election? Doesn't seem like it.
Just because McCain says a policy is socialist, doesn't mean voters have to take it to heart. It is up to the voter to decided if they like Obama's policies or not.
10"Dreamsugar Free" What the holy heck is that?
11Haus, I agree! Many people seem to embrace socialism. Some of them will admit it, but some people are afraid of the word, so they try to call it something else. I think the second group is a bit strange.
And Dream, I'm always eager to say that McCain also has socialist tendencies, just slightly fewer than Obama.
12I think calling Obama a "socialist" is just a scare-tactic at this point. McCain was clearly for "wealth distribution" or "taxes" in 2000 -- it's total hypocrisy!
13How is talking about a genuine political concern a scare tactic?
14Dream, socialism is pretty scary to me. Perhaps it's a valid "scare-tactic". It just makes sense to warn people of what they're voting for. However, it is a little ironic when McCain calls him that.
15Socialism definitely has more negative connotations than just the textbook definition. So does the word Nazi, so does the word Communist. I don't think it's out of bounds, necessarily, but it seems like throwing around inflammatory words like that does not reflect well on McCain and Palin.
16TS - true, but so do the words liberal, conservative, or republican. every term that has to deal with ideology has a negative connotation to someone. we can't ban them all ya know?
17the thing is that McCain and Palin aren't the first people to bring this up, not by a LONG shot.
this was already out there and being talked about for a long time before they hitched their wagon to it.
18Socialist is an inherently negative word when used in the context of a U.S. election. It is also inherently negative to accuse other Americans of loving socialism and communism in all its (should be their) forms. To pretend these words and their usage here have some innocent meaning is to insult us all.
19'Capitalist' has a negative connotation to many, but it's not off-limits. I just wish there was somebody in this election we could accurately call a 'capitalist'
20Nothing should be off limits solely because it has a negative connotation. There's no positive connotation for "out of touch", but people defend it when Obama calls McCain that because they think it's an accurate description. And 'out of touch' isn't even a political term.
I think it's accurate to call Obama a socialist, but I'd prefer if the label was followed up with discussion and explanation of what that means and why it's a bad (or a good) thing.
21[ However, it is a little ironic when McCain calls him that.]
I can agree with that -- but from what I'm hearing people are thinking that the world is going to end or we're going to become the SU or something - that's just isn't going to happen. I think people are getting really jumpy for no reason - the man is talking about taking taxes back to the way they were under the Clintons -- and HELLO -- the Bailout -- they both voted for it.
Look -- taxes in general ARE a redistribution of wealth -- you're taking money from this group to pay for this and that -- I don't know why they are trying to paint the guy as a socialist.
And let's not pretend that taxes won't raise under McCain -- they will -- but like on my end -- I work just as hard as a wealthy man -- this is my 1st vacation in 15 years.
22Dream, taxes are supposed to go to projects that benefit all of society, not be taken directly from one group and given to another.
23True - And the way I understand it -- these programs will be paid for by the wealthy for a change -- while the Other hard working (non-millionaires) americans can get a break. I don't see the issue -- I not getting their money either -- just getting a break and what I have to pay.
24[Dream, taxes are supposed to go to projects that benefit all of society, not be taken directly from one group and given to another.]
I didn't mention a specific group. Quote: Look -- taxes in general ARE a redistribution of wealth -- you're taking money from this group to pay for this and that
25Dream, it is not a change when the wealthy pay most of the taxes. Are you completely unaware of how the tax system already works?
26Good bye
27This class warfare business is just silly, and Obama loves it. Of course people want to vote money away from the "wealthy" into their own pockets. It's just sad that we don't respect personal property rights enough to stop them.
28Of course he also doesn't help himself by saying things like "spread the wealth around" or when his wife says "someone is going to have to give up a piece of their pie so that someone else can have more"
Now that I'm thinking more about it, I find it kind of hard to believe that anyone would think this was an empty scare tactic.
29org - its funny that you mentioned that, i was reading something earlier that said one of the most effective tactics of the Obama campaign has been inciting this class warfare sentiment.
30It's clearly not an empty scare tactic, and I find it very strange that those who support these socialist principles are so afraid of the term "socialist." I should think they would be proud of it and wear it as a badge of honor.
31For a slightly on topic amusement, see our tax system explained in beer terms:
http://www.bloggernews.net/112061
32Of course it's not over the line. He does have many policies of a socialist ilk. I've been hearing people claim that he's a socialist for over a year now (my husband's store's customers). It is sort of a scare tactic, but one that is based in reality. To the right group of people all you have to say is Obama is a socialist who wants to take all your guns away and they're planning a bunker in their backyard and stalking up on bottled water and ammo.
33I think it is the equivalent of calling Republicans bible-thumping religious zealots who want to blend church and state - there is truth there, but it is exaggerated, and the point of saying it today is to exploit a cultural divide more then to talk about policies of Church and State - fair, but not nice, and not with the most honest intentions.
34I think is simply doesn't help McCain or anyone thinking of voting for him to understand the issues and is only used as a way to rile up the base. It's really annoying actually to get caught up in such a lame buzz word instead of digging into ideas about what is a fair tax scheme. Conservative writer Ross Douthat intelligently writes, "is opposition to wealth-spreading in principle really now a litmus test for being a conservative? ...if conservatives back themselves into a corner where they're denouncing any kind of redistributionism as pure socialism, they're undercutting their ability to push for this vision of a more means-tested welfare state ..".
35It is hilarious how the term socialism in this country has acquired a bad meaning. No, it is NOT synonymous with communism.. and American politicians are as far from being socialists as...Paris Hilton is from being an "actress"! Neither Obama nor anyone else has any chance of converting this country to a socialist model, and, frankly, the whole world has veered away from that ideal and more towards individualism and conservatism. Calling Obama that is nonsensical--kinda like pretending Palin was chosen because she has any *real* merits.
36Ok thats it I'm moving to France..."Liberté, égalité, fraternité.."
37Hopefully by 2010 when I graduate college they'll still be taking Americans. I should probably consider Canada and Germany. Mein deustch ist sehr gut.
Jessie, Scandinavia is the new Canada.
38TS I think you've changed my life...or at least my reading list.
39Scandinavia...
"In "Society Without God: What the Least Religious Nations Can Tell Us About Contentment," he tells of a magical land where life expectancy is high and infant mortality low, where wealth is spread and genders live in equity, where happy, fish-fed citizens score high in every quality-of-life index: economic competitiveness, healthcare, environmental protection, lack of corruption, educational investment, technological literacy ... well, you get the idea."
Hi all, I don't post very often on CS as I'm not American (un-American? heh) but I read it almost daily, so I thought I'd un-lurk to comment on
"[Obama's] need of approval from European nations who are socialist or nearly entirely socialist".
Most European countries are currently run by right-of-centre or right wing parties, the bigger players obviously being France, Germany and Italy while countries like the UK and Spain are seeing a lean to right by people either concerned with the financial situation or fed-up by current left of centre governments.
I think the difference between the US and Europe is in their definition of "centre" (or center, ok spellcheck, just let me be!!)
and I believe it has more to do with social issues rather than economic ones.
I know I'm generalising here but it's hard not to, considering the lack of homogeneity in Europe when it comes to language, heritage, value hierarchies, religion or lack thereof and not forgetting the fact that many of the new EU members have less than 20yrs experience in modern democratic processes.
The same (to a lesser extent IMO) could be said about the US (see:homogeneity) but there seems to be a certain 'umbrella' of patriotism or shared core values that I don't see in Europe as an entity.
/re-lurks
40Hey Mich, it may be a little late, but I volunteer to run in this election as a "capitalist."
413M, you can have my vote!
42"Most European countries are currently run by right-of-centre or right wing parties,"
That is very true and a direct reaction of people being unhappy with how far left Europe was moving. People seem to forget this. I don't think many people realize that shift has happened/is happening. Obviously not everywhere though as you mentioned.
43It the natural ebb and flow of things. Things will move too far in one direction and then readjust themselves back. We go through periods of liberal government and periods of conservative government. I like to think that it keeps everything somewhat balanced in the long run.
44I'm glad we agree, although I'd like to reiterate that "right/left-of-centre" mean different things in Europe/the US (again, mainly when it comes to social issues; clear separation of church and state being a rather important one).
In terms of the economy, most European countries have a tendency to turn to right-wing politics in when there's a period of economic downturn, although countries' voting patterns seem to be more cyclical than reactionary.
Still though, which countries were you referring to when you said
45"European nations who are socialist or nearly entirely socialist"?
Sorry that last comment was a response to hausfrau, although MarinerMandy expressed my "cyclical" comment more eloquently!
464% of the population pays almost 90% of the taxes, and yes people that pay that 4% are the wealthy. Why do people think it's okay to bash the man who makes good for himself? I don't get it.
I don't think there is anything wrong with calling Obama socialist, i could call McCain the same since he voted for the bailout. However, in this election it's imperative that I vote for McCain because his taxes (keeping pretty much as they currently are) will help me the most in the long run.
47Wellllll, Obama was raised by a Marxist mother, his church of twenty+ years followed the black liberation theology (based on marxism), admitted attending socialist conferences, had Frank Marshall Davis, a communist, as a mentor, etc. If his history shows us anything, it's that he's not personally afraid of Marxism, communism or socialism. Why do those who support him get angry when one or any of those terms are applied?
48Hey brook, I almost feel as if our avatars are staring into each other's eyes.
49Hey, Mich, what is this and that?
50If this and that means roads, lights, signs, libraries, etc, I'm cool with that. I use those things.
However, if we're talking about paying hispanic or african-american kids to attend school, providing 'loans' to people who can't pay them back, etc, I am sooo not for that.
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