London buses will soon find themselves adorned with signs saying "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life." The British Humanist Association came up with the idea, with the plan of raising £5,500 ($9,325) and accepting a matching gift from famous atheist Richard Dawkins. But so far, the non-god-fearing group has already raised £20,300 ($34,420).
Dawkins has said of the campaign:
Religion is accustomed to getting a free ride — automatic tax breaks, unearned respect and the right not to be offended, the right to brainwash children. . . . This campaign to put alternative slogans on London buses will make people think — and thinking is anathema to religion.
While some religious people are upset with the campaign, the Methodist Church has welcomed the dialogue. To see why the billboards don't make them nervous, and for some background on religious billboards in the US, read more.
An officer in the Methodist Church said: "This campaign will be a good thing if it gets people to engage with the deepest questions of life. Christianity is for people who aren't afraid to think about life and meaning."
God-themed billboards are nothing new. Throughout the US, signs appearing to come straight from God have sprinkled the highways since 1998. Some say: "Life is short. Eternity isn't. — God;" "One nation under me. — God;" "Big Bang Theory, you've got to be kidding. — God." While the public may be subject to a culture war played out in advertisement, perhaps atheists just want their chance to come out of the shadows, and onto the buses.
Untold
I think the Methodist's response is perfect.
1I agree, what an eloquent response from the Methodist Church.
2i think thats a good response in the sense that it opens up dialogue. however, i'm not christian and yet i am not afraid to think about life and meaning... so i take offense to his remark about that. i'm getting tired of the notion that just because you don't believe in a "god" you somehow are incapable of pondering the meaning of life and your place in the universe. there is much to be said for the simple natural order of everything, and the connectedness of living creatures. that may not be directly connected to christianity, but it is a philosophical POV on life and meaning. SO THERE!
3Sorry YY, I focused on the first part of the quote - the second line is snarky.
4yy - i think it was a direct response to the Humanist quote
I don't have a problem with any of this, its ad revenue, what are ya gonna do... however, if you have a kid on the streets who's thinking about robbing a liquor store, but on the fence about it... and he sees a billboard saying "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.".... I think theres probably a 99% chance he'll commit that crime.
Thats not to say that there are no crimes committed by religious people, just to say that its a lot easier to have bad behavior when you don't feel you need to justify it to anyone or anything.
5I don't think it's saying Christians are the only ones who aren't afraid to think, I think it's saying to be Christian you should not be afraid to think. There's a big difference.
6yeah, I see what you're saying YY, but I think the comment is geared more towards the "I just believe whatever my pastor tells me" Christian who can't stand up to the tiniest bit of scrutiny. I don't think the comment is saying that only Christians think about the meaning of life. I think it's a great quote from the methodist church & I'm OK with the atheists' ads too. Unfortunately, I was so brainwashed by conservative Christian parents that I will never be able to enjoy life. Maybe if I saw that sign 15 years ago I could have been saved.
7Wow - I doubt that the atheist bus campaign would fly here in the USA. I'm agnostic, although I'm ever-leaning more and more towards atheism. Religion is too polarizing a subject, even violently so, for any meaningful dialogue to be had, so I commend the Methodist Church's openness to dialogue.
8ok actually, i stand corrected. re-reading the quote i believe you guys are right. i want to believe that's what he meant because it's a lot less inflammatory.
also, to your point, haus. i don't think that scenario is likely. i mean, if you're about to rob a liquor store, would god STOP you? if not, then why would something telling you there is no god make you keep going? it's weird to assume that someone would only not commit a crime because there's an invisible man watching them.
9"if you have a kid on the streets who's thinking about robbing a liquor store, but on the fence about it... and he sees a billboard saying "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.".... I think theres probably a 99% chance he'll commit that crime"
This is a preposterous notion. People will or will not be criminals etc regardless of advertising. Unless maybe it was a truthful ad about the penalties of such a crime. Besides, can't enjoy your life in prison!
I'm all for it. If I have to see ads for christianity including a billboard of a beefed up jesus breaking the cross he's nailed to through sheer brute strength, then why not let the other side of the coin be at play as well.
10My favorite "god speaks" billboard.
DONT MAKE ME COME DOWN THERE- GOD
11I'd rather just not see inflammatory billboards from either side...
12I mostly agree with yesteryear.
And I think religion should not be an issue of any kind. Amazing how much attention this subject can get. I'd much rather advertise human rights or something..
"Waiting for the time to get paid equally - Women"
13I just do not understand Atheists. Christians or other religions believe in a high power that is intrinsically linked to their lives.
14Atheists do not believe this, so what point are they trying to get across, be a non believer? Enrich your life by not believing?
Be an atheist- but it seems like they are trying to begin their own religion.
Haus, I disagree that a billboard like that will make someone commit a crime they don't already want to commit. It reminds me of people who claim that school shootings won't happen if we would just post the 10 Commandments in schools. Like someone is going to shoot someone else and sees "Thou shalt not kill" and go, oh okay I won't.
If I have to be subject to the Ladder Day Saints commercials every time I turn on my tv, then those of a religious tilt can take the atheist ads. The only thing is, what exactly are they advertising? The church ads are usually to get people into their churches so it seems like there is more of a purpose there.
15Ditto on thinking the Methodist's church response was great.
16laurel, I see where you are coming from too. If you don't believe, then who cares if others do. I understand that you don't want someone trying to convert you by coming to your house, but why try to spread it? I'm not saying it very clearly, but I agree that by advertising, it is like they are advocating or trying to educate, which would be the methods of someone recruiting, wouldn't it?
17Wow, that post is so convoluted, I'm sorry!
18Haus, I get your objection to that quote- that it might imply that hedonism is a good thing, but I don't think it was advocating all-out hedonism, and I sincerely doubt some kid is going to think that it justifies all of his actions.
True story: My very religious cousin from a very religious, very conservative family just returned from rehab. Why? Apparently, he slipped from "very Godly beliefs" to only "Godly beliefs" which caused him to booze it up big time. He went to rehab to get "back in touch with God," returned, then promptly dropped out of college when he started drinking again. Even if your religion serves as the basis of your morals, God doesn't control you, and people still are responsible for their actions.
And some atheists and agnostics lead very moral, very clean lives based on nothing but a confidence in humanity.
19And it makes me happy to see things like this, because it is showing more acceptance of non-belief. But I have to agree with Annilina- it just won't be happening in the US anytime soon. On a personal level people are always respectful to at least my face if they find out about my non-belief!
Laurel- Religion can't enrich your life if you can't believe in it. Belief really isn't a choice, you can't just compel yourself to believe in something because it would be good for you.
20"Thats not to say that there are no crimes committed by religious people, just to say that its a lot easier to have bad behavior when you don't feel you need to justify it to anyone or anything."
The flip side of that, though, haus, is that religion can sometimes be twisted into justifications for extreme bad behavior as well--abortion clinic bombings, abortion doctor murders, Islamic terrorism, holy wars, marrying pubescent girls to middle-aged men, honor killings, etc., etc., etc.
I like this campaign. Something like this, which helps to promote atheism as a belief system (if you will) as normal and acceptable and mainstream as subscription to organized religion, is all right in my book.
21I really liked Bill Maher's take on religion...the "I don't know way" of thinking. I was an atheist, until they started campaigning about it. I don't like people sticking religion in my face and I sure as hell don't like to see people stick their non-religious beliefs at me either.
22As an agnostic...I think some them are funny and true. There are very few things that you can teach children against there will at an early age and not call it "brainwashing." I was "blessed" with an inquisitive mind and have been agnostic every since I read the Bible when I was 7. In college I enjoy studying religion, I think its a more pleasant experience when you can look at it objectively without all the faith attached.
Anyways this movement may seem offensive to some, but I'm all for exposure. So many people (and by people I mean sweet old ladies) feel they have th right to automatically insult me when they find out I'm agnostic. It can be hard to, or maybe you just get tired of, defending yourself when you're the minority of the world. Its like no I don't worship satan, I volunteer, I don't lie cheat or steal, I'm not promiscuous, yes I'm in college...its really annoying. Its like I didn't sacrifice personal moral value to switch to agnosticism. I just can't believe in something without proof. I rather wait till I die to be proved right
.
Hopefully this movement will at least get people to be more open minded and show the same respect that they expect people who are agnostic/atheist to show them (yes, I do acknowledge there are disrespectful agnostic/atheist out there). And maybe we will be less of a liberal art college centered minority
.
23Adrenalynn75 thats when you downgrade to agnosticism..."I just know" is our personal motto. While atheism seems right there is too much belief in lack of a god for me. It was the "belief" factor that turned me off to begin with.
24Jessie: atheism can simply be the lack of belief in a God, it doesn't necessarily mean a belief that there are no Gods!
There are several different good definitions of atheism. I hate referring people to wikipedia, but they have some excellent sources linked from their page on atheism.
25>if you have a kid on the streets who's thinking about robbing a liquor store, but on the fence about it... and he sees a billboard saying "There's probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.".... I think theres probably a 99% chance he'll commit that crime.
Thats not to say that there are no crimes committed by religious people, just to say that its a lot easier to have bad behavior when you don't feel you need to justify it to anyone or anything.
In the nicest way possible, the huge, gaping hole in this logic is that regardless of whether you think God is in the picture, the liquor store owner definitely is either way. If there is no God to justify yourself to, there are still other people who are hurt when you steal or commit other crimes.
Regarding why people would want to spread atheism: one, I think it's the correct set of beliefs to hold, and so I want more people to believe the same way. Two, atheism does have a long way to go to get to mainstream acceptance, like Jude said. I know I've mentioned it before, but a poll of Americans shows they'd feel more comfortable with a gay president than an atheist one. Three, I think religion is a destructive force in the world, so I have every interest in encouraging people not to practice.
26Jessie...can't claim to be agnostic either. I fall more in line with atheists, but hate the fact that they want to spread the word about it.
27I find Dawkins a bit smug but this campaign is fair enough, Britain is trying to stem the tide of the rise of the religious right before it becomes pervasive as it has in the US.
28Christian voice, one of the most hateful groups just tried to sue the BBC over the airing of "Jerry Springer The Opera". They lost and are now facing bankruptcy so common sense prevailed.
True- fantastic explanation of why atheists don't rape and plunder on a daily basis!
29I say we all leave or beliefs or non beliefs out of the public forum and worship or not worship on our own time.
30True Adrenalynn75...I guess I'm definitely more of an atheist personally, but I always base my arguments from an agnostic point.
I have to agree with Jude C. TS I agree with you mostly except that I think you have to come to atheism on your own. I was having Chabbad dinner with some Jewish friends the other day and I was thinking of how hard it would be to go back to believing in God. I think getting over that hump is more of a cognitive process and not something you can really "tell" anyone. Plus I've never been particularly evangelistic.
31My point is that in general, bad behavior is easier when you know you won't really have to pay for it or you weren't taught to have a moral compass.
Religion does provide a moral compass. It provides them with a sense of right or wrong. Now, obv. thats not to say that all religion is good or that all athiests are bad people, but I don't think its a stretch to admit that if someone has a sense that someone/something is watching over them, they might be more likely to think twice about their behavior whereas if there is no God or afterlife or anything at all, why not do whatever you want whenever you want to and damn the consequences? Just like the billboard says.
32Personally, I think Dawkins is militant, inflammatory and annoying, but he has great points (if you can get past the militant presentation of facts). I'm agnostic at this point in my life, because of constant re-evaluation of my beliefs. This campaign is pretty cool though, especially if it can get just a few people to think about WHY they believe what they believe, not just what they believe. And I have a lot of respect for the Methodist reaction, it's very level headed and we need more religious people like that.
As an agnostic, it's annoying to me when people assume I'm Christian just because I believe in something outside of the physical world. There are so many more things I believe that aren't tied to a religious doctrine, and I definitely don't believe in forcing anyone to live by anyone else's religion. But that's where we are in the US, unfortunately...
33I think there are a lot of people who feel they have to have a religion, possibly based on how they grew up, for instance. I know a lot of people who feel pressured to go to church and if these ads help people by telling them they don't HAVE to have a religion and encourage them to at least explore other ways of thinking, then I don't see why it's a problem. We get religion jammed down our throats all the time, so it's nice to see different ways of thinking emerging.
34Thanks, snow. I get frustrated when it's said or implied that being moral or virtuous comes from religion. I don't refrain from lying, cheating and stealing because it's a sin, it's because I'm not a total dickhead.
I keep meaning to get my hands on Thomas Jefferson's bible re-write. He basically put together all the teachings of Jesus, took out all the miracle mumbo jumbo, and called it The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth.
I also recall an interesting conundrum from a college philosophy class: are things like stealing and murder wrong in and of themselves or because God said they are wrong? If it's the former, then we must admit there is an inherent good or bad that supersedes God. If it's the latter, then it's arbitrary and God could have just as easily made murder a virtue.
35"I was having Chabbad dinner with some Jewish friends the other day and I was thinking of how hard it would be to go back to believing in God."
Chabad's very good at convincing nonbelieving Jews to do just that
I don't have anything against people who are religious, as long as they don't have a problem with me not being the same way. I wish we could all just...get along
I don't see the point of passing judgment on people whose belief systems don't match one's religion. That doesn't get one into heaven any faster, does it?
36Great points, True!
37>My point is that in general, bad behavior is easier when you know you won't really have to pay for it or you weren't taught to have a moral compass.
I think anyone who needs religion to tell them not to knock off a liquor store may be beyond the reach of a billboard.
38Do you wanna know why Barack Obama has the ability to frighten me in my weaker moments? It isn't because of him so much as so many of his supporters. The people who post comments on here with me every day, who have made known their support of Obama, are now coming out as atheists...that's what frightens me.
39Yeah Jude, Jewish get togethers do have that effect...
40"Do you wanna know why Barack Obama has the ability to frighten me in my weaker moments? It isn't because of him so much as so many of his supporters. The people who post comments on here with me every day, who have made known their support of Obama, are now coming out as atheists...that's what frightens me."
Why?
And are you then frightened of McCain because he has lunatic supporters who hang effigies of Obama, lynching-style, from their trees?
And "coming out as atheists" implies that we were hiding it out of shame. I know I sure wasn't.
41Was it Friday night dinner, Jessiebanana? Those are so fun
42'Religion does provide a moral compass. It provides them with a sense of right or wrong.'
But haus that makes no sense... Religion may give you an idea of what is right and wrong according to that particular religion, but most major religions also teach that HATE is ok, so long as the people you hate don't worship as you do. The Bible itself teaches that stoning people to death for loving who they love is ok, not to mention some of the more oppressive aspects of Islam. How is that contributing to a good moral compass? I'm just sayin... Religion can actually teach you some pretty bad things, even if it's not actually trying to.
The Golden Rule (Do unto others as you would like them to do unto you.) is probably the most solid moral compass a person could have, and that has nothing to do with religion. You can for sure be a staunch atheist and still appreciate the weight of what that means.
43That's a very mean thing to say Suga. I don't run around saying I'm afraid of Christian McCain voters. Just exactly what are you trying to imply or are you just trying to start chaos about an issue unrelated to this post?
44I read a Washington Post article that referenced to a poll done that said 9 out of 10 Americans believe in god. I don't think believing in god is stopping anyone from committing a crime. Look at priests who molest boys. Can't get much more religious than them. And what about those super religious countries where crimes are committed in the name of god? Those are some of the more violent countries in the world. I don't think that religion churns out kinder people. In some cases it gives them something to hide behind. Just my opinion.
45I'm very offended at that sugasuga....
46ts- maybe they don't need religion to teach it to them, but its awfully helpful!
isn't our society self centered enough? do we really need billboards encouraging more people to only live for the day and themselves?
the message of most religion is to live a good life and do well for others. why is that such a bad thing? religion isn't perfect, far from it, but i do believe its done more good than harm.
47>I don't see the point of passing judgment on people whose belief systems don't match one's religion. That doesn't get one into heaven any faster, does it?
See, I do. I think believing in a talking snake or magic underpants is silly. I know it sounds flip, but I just think it's insane to believe in some kind of man or person up in the sky watching us or listening to us all murmur to him.
I'm guessing a lot of you might feel the same way about people who believe in multiple gods, who believe the world was created by a flying spaghetti monster, people who believe we should practice polygamy, people who believe in animal sacrifice, people who believe if a black cat crosses their path, they will have bad luck.
48I'll just stay in the corner on this subject...
49So do people ask you about your religion in conversation? It's considered very rude (and probably imprudent) in my country to talk about religion.
50Many people have a moral compass that has nothing to do with religion.
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