They may have very well saved the best for last. This was the most direct, most on task, most like an actual conversation debate we've had thus far. And not a moment too soon. The candidates were juxtaposed beautifully and answered questions not only on specific policies, but on the conduct of their campaigns. It was nail-biting, uncomfortable at times, but deftly handled by moderator Bob Schieffer. Here's what we thought:

Citizen: Wearing each other's "team" ties in what I hoped was a nod toward cooperation, the economy was ripped open right at the start. Both candidates spoke straight at the camera, directly it seemed, to me. It was eerie and wildly effective, with Joe the Plumber becoming an instantaneous celebrity, the cornerstone of their duel over small business taxes. Earmarks and pork barrel and budget overruns, oh my. I do like Obama's line of needing a "scalpel, not a hatchet," if only because it comforts me that he intends to cut spending as well.
When Schieffer pinned the candidates down on the negative aspects of the campaign I was breathless. It was baldly frank (seeming, I mean it is politics) talk, and when McCain whipped out the stat that Obama had spent the most money on negative campaign ads, it hit home — but was parried well by Obama's stat that six in 10 perceive McCain as negative. Then, the politest knock down-drag out on Ayers and ACORN. We knew it was coming all day, but when it did it was all the more potent. When Roe v. Wade popped up, I was actually heartened to hear civilized talk of the difference between choosing judges for their ideologies, and choosing judges for their adherence to the Constitution — it could be the most cogent debate on the issue we've had thus far.
To see the rest of my thoughts, and what Liberty has to say, read more.
As for the "Gore sighs" the nonverbals that will kill a performance: both were guilty of the smirk, if only perhaps to relieve the tension. I know I could barely handle it, it stands to reason it had to express itself somewhere, so to speak. In all, the debate was like a floaty butterfly fairy tale meets a brick wall. The second you got caught up in the story Obama was spinning, then came McCain with his smack down of reality. Even 20 months in, it was confusing and captivating and perfectly encapsulated these diametrically opposed yet unflinching campaigns — and illuminated the very choice we all have to make in 20 short days. Now as Bob Schieffer's mother says, "Go vote now. It will make you feel big and strong."
Liberty: In the most high tension, and perhaps most conversational, debate John McCain came out looking for a game changer. McCain seemed rested and eager (did you hear the Al Gore sighs?) while Obama seemed reluctant and a little low on energy. Still, Obama's calm demeanor allowed him to rise above a potential catty debate, and focus on his issue advantages.
Coming out strong, McCain's crisp statement: "Senator Obama, I'm not President Bush" had no matching punch line from Obama, perhaps giving McCain an edge in the sound-bite battle.
In the middle, the candidates spent much time talking about attack ads, leaving me lamenting that this is what the American people get to listen to from their presidential candidates. By noting that William Ayers has become the center of McCain's campaign, Obama made McCain's campaign look deaf to the real issues facing the American people. After setting the record straight about his strained connection to Ayers, Obama then took the opportunity to make a positive and reassuring argument about the capable people who will advise him, such as Warren Buffet and former NATO head Jim Jones.
After a discussion on healthcare, which left me thinking Obama knows more about McCain's plan than McCain does, the two got talking about abortion. Obama called out the McCain/Palin refrain that he supported infanticide, pointing out that there was already a law on the books requiring care to babies of botched abortions when he voted against an Illinois bill for other reasons.
Obama then took the dialogue to another level saying that he wants everyone to work together to reduce the number of abortions and promote adoption. McCain went on to slam the pro-choice movement with the pejorative "pro-abortion." I'm still wondering if considering the country's at war and in an economic crisis, and after eight-years of a pro-life President and more Roe v. Wade, whether the abortion discussion was worth the time.
While this was McCain's best performance by far, I think Obama maintained a presidential and informed presence. Maybe I can find Joe the Plumber and ask him what he thinks.
What did you think?









Mon Showroom
Giuseppe Zanotti
Stone Island
As much as I can't stand either of these gentlemen, J-Mac put together a better performance sitting down.
I think the term-definition on the side in favor of abortion as "pro-choice" is certainly a less clear term than "pro-abortion." It's kind of silly to get upset about it.
1I listened to it and it did not seem like Obama was low on energy. I think he once again did a good job of enumerating specific ways he was going to address problems. Even if I don't agree with him on everything I can at least know where he stands.
"The second you got caught up in the story Obama was spinning, then came McCain with his smack down of reality."
I admit I take issue with this. This wasn't "story time with Obama." He addressed every question head on, often with more clarify than an oft-stumbling McCain. That quote once again tries to spin Obama as just a good speaker with nothing to back it up. If you don't agree with his policies fine, but you're basically saying he got up there and lied well.
2In my opinion, Mccain spent too much time ridiculing obama. rather than focusing on true issues.
3I think Obama came off calm and collected, McCain came off jittery and angry. And all the interrupting really was upsetting. As far as who won, not really sure, maybe a toss up?
4obama did brilliantly! mccain just looked so stressed out the whole time and spent more time dodging questions with accusations.
...plus mccain's mouth is really freaky like a snake and he kept breathing all weird and licking his non-lip. EW. (and he snorted at the end)
5*clarify = clarity
Kind of a funny word to screw up.
6I don't think it's silly to get upset about the term "pro-abortion". I'm not pro-abortion--I don't go around saying that abortion is the greatest thing since sliced bread. To some it's just semantics, but to me it's important and I'm sad McCain used that term. Not like I was gonna vote for him anyway, but eh.
7Also, pro-choice is not a muddled term, IMO. Giving people a choice and keeping abortions legal, safe, and rare? Not hard to understand.
8It is INSULTING to call people who are pro-choice "pro-abortion". That is just hugely offensive.
9Since McCain didn't win going away, (and since I've heard pundits call it a draw), I'd have to say that Obama won. McCain had to win this one big to really be in it. I'm nervous for the next 3 weeks.
10I have election fatigue. *sigh*
11" I think he once again did a good job of enumerating specific ways he was going to address problems"
I agree. That is what I like about him.
12hmmm - is there anyone who is pro-choice who is anti-abortion?
13Good point UnDave.
14Don't worry too much Undave..ANYTHING can happen in 3 weeks!
15Great interview with Hillary on CNN right now. I don't understand people who think she isn't doing enough.
16That's not the point, UD. The point is that, IMO, pro-abortion is the type of inflammatory term that people who are not educated about abortion/science/whatever use, and I expected more from McCain. Maybe I should stop expecting.
17Yes, Undave, since Mac did not come off big, I guess O did win. Can't wait to see what the pointspread is tomorrow.
18Yes, Undave, since Mac did not come off big, I guess O did win. Can't wait to see what the pointspread is tomorrow.
19Also, refresh my memory--wasn't ol' Maverick McCain happy to call himself pro-choice at one point? When he told Robertson and Falwell to suck it?
20"is there anyone who is pro-choice who is anti-abortion?"
ME!!!!
Just because you want it to be an option does not mean that you WANT people to get them!!!!
21It is the Liberal/Democratic platform to fund PREVENTION of unwanted pregnancies. What would make you think that pro-choice people are pro-abortion?
Not only is it offensive but a lie. I'm anti-abortion for me. It's not something I'd choose Dave. But I can not decide that for other women.
22...and I'm out before I start anything else.
night peeps!
23Jill, I don't think it's that offensive. I believe abortions should be allowed in certain circumstances. So in those appropriate circumstances, I am pro-abortion. It doesn't mean I want abortions to happen all day, every day, but it is the correct term for what I believe.
24Since when does being pro-something mean that you have to think it's wonderful and that everyone should have one?
I'm pro-voting, but I don't think that 4 years old should get voting cards. Stop with the term, warfare already.
25Great points, Jill. I don't go around telling women to have abortions all willy-nilly. Jeez.
OK, for realz, goodnight y'all.
26Pro-choice is just a euphemism.
27Big surprise: CNN's poll has Obama winning the debate. I'm shocked!
28I can't help but think that Palin sunk McCain's ship.
29janneth McCain sunk it by picking her.
30i think mccain could have sunk his own ship without help and tonights debate proved that.
31"Stop with the term, warfare already."
Oh, please. You realize McCain is the one that threw out "Pro-Abortion", don't you?
32I am just calling him on it.
But I think that is the point. We don't like the term pro-abortion, but that's exactely what people who aren't against abortion are. I'm not saying this like it's a bad thing, but I know it sounds that way typed out. IMO, pro-choice is just a way to redirect the conversation and avoid the negative stigma.
33UnDave, absolutely.
34Right on UnDave. It's all about avoiding the horrible thing that abortion really is.
I'm not sure where I fall on this spectrum, but I certainly don't appreciate anyone muddying the waters.
35I just think the meaning is fundamentally different.
"Pro-" is an endorsement. No, the left isn't "For" abortion, they aren't encouraging people to get them.
You have to know there are many far right groups that push the idea that abortion clinics encourage young women to get abortions. That is a distortion of what it means to be "Pro-Choice", and that was what McCain was trying to do by using that phrase.
36*"hmmm - is there anyone who is pro-choice who is anti-abortion?"
Me too!
I think Obama showed grace and even temperament when the Ayers stuff was brought up. I was so happy that he got to clear the air with the entire viewing audience-- not just the Obama supporters who go to his websites.
37"I was so happy that he got to clear the air with the entire viewing audience"
I agree.
38Jill, if a young girl has an unplanned pregnancy and chooses to get an abortion, are you pro- her getting that abortion? That's her choice, but her choice is abortion. Therefore, when you're pro-her choice, you're pro-abortion.
39I'm pro-bono.
40I don't think abortions are bad in and of themselves. I think abortion can be hard for the mother both physically and emotionally, so I don't support frequent abortions.
McCain use pro-abortion to be inflammatory. I'm secure enough in my beliefs to call pro-life people by their chosen name pro-life. I don't need to be derogative and call them pro-religion or anti-woman. I'm sick of his colored speech.
41I'm probama
42"I don't think abortions are bad in and of themselves."
That's kind of scary.
43Are you talking Sony Bono? I'm anti-bono if that's who you're talking about.
44It is totally semantics. You can be against abortion and not "pro-life." Rape victims are the perfect example. If people are 100% "pro-life" they believe the rape victim should have to have the baby (even if it is result of incest).
I won't even start in about Palin's position that a rape victim should have to pay for her own rape kit in the hospital.
45Pro-life is also a bad term, just going to throw that out there. Anti-abortion and pro-abortion speak directly to the issue, and therefore are the best terms. Everything else is just a euphemism used to distract from the issue.
46so... back to talking about the debate?
47No Michelin she's pro her freedom to choose what is right for her. I think its irresponsible to spend all of your money on an expensive car, but I don't think we should be able to tell people what to do with their money
48Yes sake, I think McCain sunk his own ship on his behavior alone. He was rude, condescending and hot tempered. Who would want someone that out of control representing and running their country?
49Ugh seriously another abortion discussion?
What did you think about the debate, Mich? (Please take my bait and change the topic of conversation
)
50Post New Comment
Please share your opinion with our community, but make sure it is on topic and follows our Community Rules. We moderate comments and prohibit personal attacks, threats, spam, lewd images, or the promotion of your personal website.