I don't plan to see this. I'm not a religious person, and frankly religion often seems silly to me, but I don't take pleasure in mocking and belittling religious people. I'm not so self-congratulating as Maher, and I think his movie would amount to little more than an hour and half of Maher patting himself on the back because he's got it all figured out.

This movie changed my mind.

I feel like reading this review was enough to sum up the movie without seeing it. Had there been an interview with Colbert, though, I would've been sitting in the theatre 10 minutes ago.

Well said Mich, I honestly wish everyone were as mature as you.

and org, where the hell is yoda?

He's the reason I don't have HBO.

I don't need to see the movie to get his point. I am not religious and I agree with Michelin - I find most organized religions illogical including the religion I was raised with. But I respect them because they have a traditional and cultural importance. And insulting someone's faith doesn't hold well with me. However, I saw an interview with Maher on The Daily Show and did find myself agreeing with his views. His point is to open up discussion but his tone is not the best way to do it.

I think Master Yoda will be back closer to the election to war against the Sith and offer sage advice.

>I think his movie would amount to little more than an hour and half of Maher patting himself on the back because he's got it all figured out.

In fact, Maher's not even an atheist, he says he preaches, "I don't know." Rather than having it all figured out, he says he doesn't know and contends that no one else does either.

I saw this Saturday and was cracking up through the entire thing like everyone else in the theater. I also loved the Roman Catholic Priest! It had a lot of stuff to make you think, but it was also hokey and funny and meant to get a laugh.

I would also like to point out that while it made a "modest" $3.5 million, it was a very limited release, playing on only 500 screens. (So it averaged almost $7,000 per screen, whereas the chihuahua move, just for reference, averaged about $9,000 per screen.)

Citizen I saw the movie Friends of God... well it was a documentary by Nancy Pelosi's daughter. It was actually really good and I felt pretty unbiased... and they mention that theme park in there! And they go to it too! It looks pretty interesting...

As for that Vatican priest - " People are going to believe what they want, and then they'll die." geesh... Sartre-esque...

I actually highly recommend Friends of God, I thought it was a great doc.

Good review.

I also agree that I could have watched a whole movie of the Roman Catholic Priest from the Vatican. He was really entertaining.

One part of the movie that stuck out to me is that 16% of Americans polled are not religious at all, and that as a voting block, we outnumber Jews, NRA members, and a number of other groups and could have political power if organized.

Also, I really recommend the book The Year of Living Biblically. It's about a guy trying to follow every rule in the Bible for one year, and it's super funny, but the author, a secular Jew who started the project in part to poke fun, ends up finding surprising meaning and benefits from even the silliest rituals. Very good read. It questions religion but if a way with more respect and deference that I imagine the average person would find more palatable. (As Maher says, religion is the last taboo.)

TS, saying he thinks he has it all figured out is not the same as calling him an atheist. Maher and I seem to subscribe to the same theory (I don't know and couldn't know) but our attitudes about it are very different. When I say "he's got it all figured out" I don't mean he has God figured out, I mean he thinks he has people figured out. And he's smug about it.

Interesting thoughts, Citizen. I agree with you on the 'wishing he would have spoken to Colbert' comment--I'd be more than interested to see what someone like Colbert, who 'gets it', and is a Catholic, would say to Maher. (Mondaymoos--in other words, I'd be asking you to pass the popcorn ).

I'm a religious person, and I don't know how much I mind people mocking/questioning my faith. On one hand I just really don't care, because what I believe is sacred to me and, well, no one's really going to change my mind, but at the same time I can see where people call a lot of things about religion into question. I think a lot of the basic messages (acceptance, kindness, etc.) can kind of get lost in organized religion, and it's definitely a shame.

I totally want to see this...Maher does not claim to have anything figured out - he's just asking questions. If one is comfortable with his/her faith - he/she should have no problem seeing this.

I like your name michln-y.

The hubby and the kids I went to the Holy Land theme park when we went to Disney World.. yeah.. it was weird. Made me think of going as a kid to see the Glory of Christmas at the Crystal Cathedral only being able to step into it like a alternate universe or like a religious version of a Renaissance fair.

I like Bill. I was raised non denominational Christian and the hubby Catholic (his mother raised by nuns in Spain).. so the religious debate happens weekly in our home! So I love seeing Bill's take on yes "higher power" but not buying the "organized religion" or "superstitious rituals" portion of the equation. And not buying the my religion is better than your religion..I am the only one saved religion.

No babysitter this weekend.. so sorry Bill..you are on the netflix queue.

>TS, saying he thinks he has it all figured out is not the same as calling him an atheist. Maher and I seem to subscribe to the same theory (I don't know and couldn't know) but our attitudes about it are very different. When I say "he's got it all figured out" I don't mean he has God figured out, I mean he thinks he has people figured out. And he's smug about it.

I thought you meant he thinks he has it all figured out re: religion, I didn't realize you were talking about people.

TS, I mean religious people. He thinks he has them figured out, and he's looking down his nose at them. It really rubs me the wrong way.

But I guess that wouldn't bother you.

As a democrat, I don't see anything wrong with making fun of people for worshipping a skygod.

If the economy was better, they wouldn't have to cling to it anymore.

> I think a lot of the basic messages (acceptance, kindness, etc.) can kind of get lost in organized religion, and it's definitely a shame.

Another thing I learned about from the movie was Thomas Jefferson's "New Bible," basically the teachings of Jesus minus any "miracles" or anything like that. I just thought it was really interesting, and I wish morality weren't so knotted up with religion for some people.

Mich, I'm of the opinion that we give too much deference to religious beliefs. They get special treatment, and we're not supposed to question them. So, it doesn't bother me when someone speaks up and says, "No, this isn't sacred, it's all really kind of silly."

Interesting, TS. You're making me want to see it now.

I would encourage you to, em. It was interesting, but I also don't want to sugar coat it. I think one of the reviews said it was one of the most offensive documentaries in recent history. He interviews a guy who runs a center where they "cure" gay people, and at the end the guy gives him a hug and Bill asks him if he got a hard on from it.

It's raunchy and it's offensive, but it's also funny and very interesting.

TS, what special treatment do we give to religious beliefs?

I definitely want to see this movie! Thanks for the added infor True Song!

"TS, I mean religious people. He thinks he has them figured out, and he's looking down his nose at them. It really rubs me the wrong way."

I heard him on NPR last week and that is not what he was saying at all. His biggest problem is that it seems people take this notion of Jesus and God without question and that more and more religion is creeping into places it should not. He just wants people to stop and think, how can we be so sure these things exist? He admits he's not.

I'm probably going to see this movie when I get back from vacation (woo woo!). What's interesting, as someone else has pointed out, is that Maher isn't an atheist; he's an agnostic. I think that's pretty key in understanding why he'd make the movie.

I just read Sam Harris' Letter To a Christian Nation on the plane last night, and that's a great read. If you're a believer, it'll get you thinking (and might outrage you!). If you're not, you'll be doing a lot of "right on"-ing throughout. Worth reading either way, I think.

Thinking is always a good thing Roar! I will see this movie soon! I would love to see a Bill Maher interview Citizen!

Mich, really? You don't see how views on religion are treated specially? It's considered very rude to question someone else's religious beliefs. It's very much a taboo subject. I mean, just take this website. A lot of people openly disdain and question others for their political beliefs, but it seems like whenever the topic of religion comes up, a lot of comments are about how important it is to respect other peoples beliefs, to have your own respected, not to force your beliefs on others, etc.

I don't see how making a movie telling people they ought to question religion is any different than making a movie telling people they ought to be religious.

If either was done with a smug attitude and included parts mocking people that didn't subscribe to the ideas of the filmmaker, it would bother me.

>I don't see how making a movie telling people they ought to question religion is any different than making a movie telling people they ought to be religious.

I don't either.

>If either was done with a smug attitude and included parts mocking people that didn't subscribe to the ideas of the filmmaker, it would bother me.

It didn't bother me, but I don't see anything wrong with mocking people for believing in talking snakes and magic underpants. But I can see how it would bother some people.

"It's considered very rude to question someone else's religious beliefs"

It's perfectly polite to discuss religious beliefs, but it is certainly rude to attack religious beliefs. The difference is in the way the 'questioning' is done, and the attitude behind it.

For example "I don't see anything wrong with mocking people for believing in talking snakes and magic underpants" is an attack on religion. It's impossible for anybody to have a discussion about religion with somebody who makes statements like that. Perhaps it is people who take it too far that make it taboo to discuss religion.

So anyway, there's the smug attitude I was talking about, and I didn't even have to see the movie to get it.

You think it's perfectly polite to talk to someone about their religion, why they believe in it, and how they reconcile any contradictions or discrepancies? And yes, I was making a joke about talking snakes and magic underpants (though those are very real parts of major religions), but I mean, you would feel comfortable in polite conversation, say, asking very nicely a Christian if they believe the miracles from the Bible literally happened, what they think happens to non-believers, or how they're able to reconcile the intolerance of some Christian leaders?

It's not acceptable, it's a taboo.

And if you think it's impossible to have a conversation about religion with someone who "makes statements like that," try having one with someone who literally believes those things to be true.

If I did it in a polite, genuinely curious way, I would not have any problem with asking a Christian those questions. I've had conversations about faith many times with many people, and neither party has been upset or angry.

Perhaps you find that it's taboo because when you ask questions or try to 'discuss' religion, you are talking down to the religious party.

I don't discuss religion with others (in person) because just being an atheist is pretty offensive to some people before I even give my reasons. I have, of course, had conversations in the past (and many of them were while I was in college, like you are) but it's still a tricky subject, like sex or politics, but I would argue even more so. If you think otherwise, I won't try to sway you, because I'd rather have more people who think it's an acceptable topic out there.

(And no, I do not talk down to people who are religious. I refrain, now, from having conversations about religion, but before I made that rule for myself I tread very lightly for fear of offending.)

I say Mich for president in (whatever year she qualifies)!

I appreciate your vote, GS

I'll probably watch it. It looked interesting.

Some of my closest friends are very Christian and I've asked them many questions about their faith. Mich is right in that its your tone, if you're asking in a genuine "I want to understand" kind of way, then nearly 100% of the time they are more than happy to share.

If you mock them and speak down to them, then no, they'll tell you buzz off. And rightfully so.

Well, there's also a difference between talking about it with close friends vs acquaintances.

TS, there are lots of sensitive subjects that people don't usually discuss with acquaintances. But that doesn't make them taboo, it just makes them sensitive.

What's the difference?

Honestly I didn't think it would be so controversial to say it's not socially accepted to question someone's religion.

TS, the difference is that 'taboo' is rather extreme. I think the issue with your statement is what, exactly, 'question' means.

Hmm it sounds like TS and Mich are saying the same thing in a different way. Basically the questioning someone's religion depends on how you say it. Are you questioning them in a curious way where you actually are open to them telling you or in a "why on earth would you believe something this ridiculous" sort of way?

I will see this movie first before deciding on its tone- TS has convinced me on this. I am agnostic too but many people seem to confuse agnostic with atheist which is annoying because they are two very different beliefs.

I don't think it's necessary to go after the believers of a religion.

Now, going after the religious leaders and assorted fundamentalist authority figures who twist the teachings of whatever their religion is around in order to give themselves the maximum amount of power and control over their congregants (and their congregants' money)...that's another thing altogether.

Jude has hit the nail on the head, I have no problem with people's belief systems, they can dance with snakes because Mark told them to (as long as the snakes are not harmed) But when they infiltrate govt to change it's nature or tell their parishioners how much money they must give to the church that's when it gets alarming.
The rise of fundamental religions over the last 20 years is frightening.

Bill Maher is a funny guy although he is a little arrogant at times. He does raise issues and ask questions in a very sensible and rational way concerning politics and social issues that nobody else seems to do. This is why I always enjoy watching him on HBO. He also gets conservatives and liberals to duke it out on his panel occasionally where they can say whatever they want because it's HBO. Very Entertaining. Bill Maher is an asset to society.

I'm going to see it and don't forget about Ben Steins Expelled too. Make it a double feature.

"He's talking to the 16 percent of Americans that consider themselves nonreligious — challenging them to talk openly about doubt."

Sorry Bill, I'll see your movie and you can try to convince me, but it's just not going to happen. I still go to church on Christmas and Easter with the family, I go to baptisms, and I tell people I'll "pray for them," when they ask me to. My future MIL is hoping I'll "save her unbelieving son," (I'm a woman, so I MUST be virtuous and religious).

The most I tell people is "I'm not that religious" if they ask, and they assume I just never went to church as a child, or that I haven't "invited God into my heart" or some nonsense. In America today, it is just too hard to say to people, "no, I went to church as a child, got confirmed, thought about what religious principles I believed in, realized it made no sense, and am now an atheist." Pretty much that kills anything you could hope to do and be, unless you are a comedian or an author. Certainly, I could never have a political career!

I agree with True Song. *We must always be reverent when discussing religion so as not to upset the sensibilities of fundamentalists and moderates alike.*

I cannot envision curiously asking a Christian to explain her beliefs. I'm not interested in pandering -- I am interested in organizing our team (agnostics/atheists). As Maher points out, we are a significant minority.