He SAYS its an individuals right but he supported the DC ban until the Supreme Court decided agianst it.

man couldn't they even center the logo thing?? that's driving me nuts! GIMME MY GUN!!

The fact is that no Democrat will ever be pro-gun so its a waste of time to even try to appear that way.

Thanks for linking to that previous post because I'm sure this convo will go down the exact same way! No need to comment further!

Haus, come on I'm pro gun and I'm a Democrat!

Say anything, just keep people scared. You'd think sane NRA members would resent the lies. Why did they say he'd close 90% of the gun shops in America? If Obama was going after everyone's guns, wouldn't he close them all?

I gotta say something on the assault weapons ban. It bans weapons based on aesthetics ONLY, it does not bans weapons that are deadlier than normal. It is the biggest crock of BS law because it does absolutely nothing other than make owners of those firearms, who bought them legally, into criminals.

M2 I don't think you could run as dem with those views! Maybe an independent though!

I thoroughly dislike the NRA and they ARE certainly stretching things with this flyer, but if you read through the factcheck.org thing on it, I can't say they are blatantly lying or making things up.

I'd be the crackpot Democrat...could be kinda fun!

That would be fun!

"Obama has consistently said that he believes the Second Amendment creates an individual right. Obama does support national legislation against carrying concealed firearms, and he would reinstate the ban on semi-automatic assault weapons."

I'm glad we come together and agree that this is not at all contradictory. Rhetoric is obviously more important than one's actions. But as a Barack Obama supporter, I really couldn't feel any other way.

Reading that old thread makes me sad for the old days

I can see shotguns and those little handguns, but why would a civilian need an oozie or an AK-47?

I find that most people who support the assault weapon ban know nothing about the weapons being banned. You know what the difference is between the AR-15 (which is banned under the act) and a Ruger Mini-14 (which is not) is? Purely cosmetic details.

Quote from wikipedia (yeah, I know but it is TRUE):
"Detractors say that the banned weapons were essentially targeted for falling under an arbitrary definition of "military appearance" and not according to function, lethality, or actual threat to public safety."

So why would someone want an assault weapon? I love my AR because it is fun to shoot, plain and simple. It is the one gun I shoot better than most of the men at the range and I get a huge kick out of that. These crotchety old men show up and think, oh how cute. That little girl over there thinks she can shoot that. And them I'm far more accurate at a further distance than them...never gets old! No, I don't need it, but I also don't need my flat iron and I have no intention of giving that up.

My support of Obama is pretty darn clear, but his gun control positions make very little sense.

Oh ok.

I'm with Barack. Why do people think they have the right to carry a concealed firearm for self-defense? I think "common sense" dictates that is dangerous.

libertysugar, why are you posting against an independent expenditure campaign? and the indented paragraph, is that a quote posted w/o a link or your take on the piece? so much for objective journalism.

I like this line: The NRA, however, simply dismisses Obama's stated position as "rhetoric" and substitutes its own interpretation of his record as a secret "plan."

Hey lickety split. The block quote is from Factcheck.I added "Factcheck asserts:" so it's more clear.

I don't see, yet, a conservative commenter criticizing the site for making this post.

No takers?

Interesting observation Torg. Where are all those conservatives clinging to their guns and their religion tonight?

here i am!

That should be copyright infringement!

I like this line: The NRA, however, simply dismisses Obama's stated position as "rhetoric" and substitutes its own interpretation of his record as a secret "plan."

Organic...

That is a great comment.

TS - Its too easy, we'll never see a post about the millions of dollars far left PACs are using to put out lies about McCain.

The NRA is an easy target (pardon the pun) because the majority of peple are grossly misinformed about firearms and the statistics relating to their use.

BTW i don't mean that in a bitter way, just in a realistic way (about not getting a post on the PACs)

its no biggie, just makes me extra happy when we get a right leaning post!

"The fact is that no Democrat will ever be pro-gun so its a waste of time to even try to appear that way."

Good to know you are viewing Obama's position objectively with out preconceived ideas.

I think it is pretty sketchy that they tried to use Obama's logo. That is probably copyright infringement and therefore illegal, I would think.

i never used to pay much attention to the debates on pro-gun or anti-gun control laws until i started dating my fiance who's family is from texas and are card carrying members of the NRA. i think that this issue and candidate's positoins can be dissected so many different ways that it's kind of niether here nor there. i think that i get what obama's position is - however i don't agree on the concealed thing. i'm all for having a weapon for self defense for home invasions, but i also have the fear that people aren't responsible.

I swear, there are folks out there that just want to misrepresent Obama's stance on the issues....it's like they WISH that he wanted to change the second ammendment. He doesn't. Repeating lies over and over and over does not make them true.

Well said Juju. I agree with that 100%.

I, too, am a mostly-kind-of-sort-of democrat who clings to her guns... and sometimes religion.

I've been so fired up on the firearm posts in the past, but I kind of realize now it is a waste of energy because by and large most people opposed to guns know absolutely nothing about them so you can't even have an intelligent debate about it.

frau, what are the lefty PACs saying about McCain that's not true? (I'm not being challenging, just asking.)

You know, it doesn't really matter what Obama says he thinks about guns, if you look at the way he votes (read the factcheck arcitle) you'll see that he has already made moves to take away 2nd amendment rights.

Jill your nastiness is not necessary. But thanks for dropping by to insert it into the conversation.

Mandy- I totally agree.

I'm a McCain supporter, but I have to say that 99% of what the NRA puts out scares the hell out of me.

Well, my fiance's a pro-gun Democrat from a family of pro-gun Democrats.

Is it just me, or is there kind of a huge gaping grey area between being in favor of unrestricted guns and being in favor of all guns being restricted? I think it's perfectly reasonable for Obama to say that he supports the individual's right to gun ownership while also supporting the right of the states to impose reasonable restrictions.

But TS what Obama might think is reasonable, like banning all concealed weapons, may not actually be reasonable in the face of the facts.

BTW, I am in no way saying that the NRA puts out nothing but the truth, they are the biggest lobby after all, but not everything they say is a lie either.

TS, well you might think that, but I don't think there's many "resonable" restrictions that can be placed on guns. To me, a move against any gun right is a move against all gun rights.

I don't think Obama is heavily anti-gun (at least he hasn't shown that entirely yet), but when you look at something like the Brady Bill and the damage that caused and how it failed miserably, I would hope that he would not support something like that. But I think if you have him as POTUS and a Democratic led congress, we can all kiss our gun rights goodbye.

And the scary thing is, the people that have the guns illegally will STILL have them illegally. Do we really think that just passing a law banning assault weapons will really get rid of them? No, it will take them out of the hands of the law abiding citizens is all it will do.

Hold on a second guys. Don't you remember the article about Chicago either more or less dangerous than Iraq? I can't remember which one it was, but anyway, they have a ban of all concealed weapons in place.

I'm sure it's working out great.

I wasn't trying to make any comment about gun laws, really. Just that this line of thinking, "Obama says one thing but his actions say another" seems false to me.

I'm with Torg. You can infringe on right of the People to keep and bear arms. That's what the constitution says too, isn't it?

BUt TS his voting records show that he's not very in favor of gun rights, he SAID he supported the DC gun ban until the Supreme Court voted against it and then he said he supported that decsion!

And remember that whole quesntionnaire that he had filled out where he said that he thinks all guns should be banned?

The fact that he's all over the place on this is what is grounds for not truly believing what he says. If he was consistent in his views, I don't think this would be a question.

Torg, if he says he supports your 2nd amendment right, but also believes in 'reasonable restrictions', that's a contradiction in itself to me.

Look, Michelin. He only supports commonsense infringements.