The overturning of the ban on same-sex marriage in California has changed many lives and simultaneously sparked a slew of arguments. In fact, as reported by the Sacramento Bee, a recently wed couple — Rachel Bird and Gideon Codding — are starting their own debate over the wording of the new gender-neutral marriage license, which has changed the traditional reference of Bride and Groom to Party A and Party B.
Bird offered her own explanation, saying: "We are traditionalists — we just want to be called bride and groom," and for this couple, anything else is unacceptable; they refuse to sign the license as-is. The article also mentions that this particular fight is a personal one, rather than religious. But whatever the motivation for standing their ground, I find the attachment to these two words interesting. They do represent tradition and their cultural significance is vast, but are they truly necessary? When it comes down to it, do these types of traditional titles matter to you and your relationship?
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Tod's
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What's most ridiculous about this is that the couple is complaining about how they're being referred to on their MARRIAGE LICENSE???
Please, how narrow-minded does one have to be to actually feel offended when they neutralize your titles on a f*cking bureaucratic piece of paper which exists only to give you legal rights and has NOTHING to do with tradition or god.
1Well, I would think that people would call me the bride whether or not I wanted to be, but as far as what it says on the marriage certificate? Who cares? You never look at that again once you sign it.
2WTF? When I get married, I will be the Bride and my man will be the Groom...
3Party A and Party B sounds more like a business negotiation rather than a marriage contract
a marriage license is a contract--it's not romantic, so who cares what the State calls you. At your wedding you can be called the bride & groom. It's not like the State is forcing the pastor/priest/officiant to say "I now pronounce you Party A and Party B."
4Who cares what the piece of paper says? I couldn't tell you what I was referred to on my marriage liscence. It stays tucked away in a lockbox with all my other legal paperwork.
5I find "bride" a loaded word - when I was planning my very simple, very small wedding, I told people, "I'm not a bride, I'm just getting married." "Bride" to me things that weren't happening for us and things that I probably wouldn't have wanted anyway. So I would have been happier with a Party A/Party B certificate than a Bride/Groom one. I don't remember what ours said, though ... so no matter what your feelings, I wouldn't consider this a hill worth dying on.
6i'm okay with whatever the actual certificate says
like many others, i find this fight absolutely ridiculous and narrow-minded
it was changed to include others who may not have the same sexual orientation as traditional brides/grooms
to me, the title is important in terms of personal life, ie: i would say "my husband" not "my spouse" or "my partner" as some people do, but the fact that the marriage license has been changed means nothing to me personally and means freedom for a whole new sector of society, and for that, i applaude the state
7Marriage lisence is a peice of legal contractual paper so who gives a crap. As long as I am not referred to as Party A or Party B during the actual verbal part of the ceremony I don't care. Though maybe I should start calling my bf as Party B as his new pet name... to get him use to the idea LMAO
8..because I am definately Party A!
9What I found most interesting in the linked article is that they are so disturbed by this wording that the "bride" (and I assume her 2 kids from the previous marriage) remain uninsured.
10This makes me angry - I think it's clear that this couple is against same-sex marriage and think that they can make a statement here... Fortunately the California Constitution is stronger than a couple of twits who can't differentiate between their real lives and the paper trail. If I were the County Clerk I would offer to change their form myself - to Party Dumb and Party Dumber. Get over it people. Marriage equality has arrived in California and it is far more important than your small-minded, self-righteous attachment to a piece of paper. Okay, rant over. Now I can proceed with my day in peace
11These people have too much free time on their hands. The new paperwork is meant to make things easier for everyone (whether straight or gay) and for this self-centered biyatch to basically say, "I want it to be all about me!!" shows that she doesn't give a damn about others.
If you don't like it, cross it off and write in "Bride" for crying out loud! Yeah, immature way to mutilate a legal document, but you're sure being immature yourself.
12I agree -- I think the couple is immature. A marriage is a contract. It's entered with love, but it's a contract. It's binding. The notion of referring the different sides as Party A and Party B is accurate, in my opinion.
Perhaps the couple didn't realize that? All they had were romantic notions??
Also, if they're unwilling to be legally married (i.e. unwilling to sign the marriage license), that's their choice. Aparently, being called certain labels is more important than being married to each other. I find their priorities questionable.
13I don't want to be called party a. I know you think it's immature but I want to be called the bride. Religion aside
14This is so sad. I hope one day they realize how how insignificant this is. When you are going to fight for something I believe it should at least be something that is going to make a difference somehow in your life. This does not seem to be a battle worth fighting.
when I read stuff like this I instantly picture them as people who are constantly making a big fuss over everything. They just come off as miserable people that need to make life hard for others by complaining about every stupid little thing they possibly can.
15Geez, they can be called bride and groom by their church, their parents, and everybody else. Whatever union the government sanctions is simply a financial contract between two parties. That's it.
16i was also thinking about it and Party A comes off as the more dominant party anyway, so this is weird in its own right
17"When it comes down to it, do these types of traditional titles matter to you and your relationship? "
When I commented, I wasn't saying I think the license should say Bride and Groom for everyone, I was just saying in my case I would prefer that... however I agree that in cases of same-sex marriages they should be given the choice to have a more gender-neutral license.
18javsmavs you are right on.
19And by the way, I say "who cares" to the couple? Let them protest by not signing. Doesn't hurt anyone else but themselves.
20Off topic, I know, but:
Does anyone else find the groom in the picture intimidating?
Poor little bride, doesn't know what she's in for...
21I live in this market and saw the report on tv. Frankly, I couldn't believe they were giving airtime to this bigoted garbage.
The couple is average looking and unremarkable (i.e. nothing about their appearance or home was unusual).
The couple illegally altered a legal document by crossing out A and B and writing in Bride and Groom above their names. This, of course, invalidated their license.
As to the suggestion by some readers that same-sex couples be given a more gender-neutral license to sign, that absolutely undermines the point of equality.
As many others have pointed out, the license is a contract between two people without differentiation. To make a distinction would be incorrect.
Let's never forget that "Separate but Equal" is never equal.
22I'm getting married in December, and I am uncomfortable being called "the bride." In my wedding vows, I certainly won't be referring to myself as "Party A," but I'm just not one to get finicky about what I'm referred to as.
23I agree with BridgetJones that these people seem obviously against same sex marriage and are using some stupid excuse to try to get it changed b/c of that.
Other than that, I think it's stupid anyway to make such a big deal about the official document. I would care about what I'm called in real life, but on the piece of paper? that's crazy.
I also agree with Pop. Let them protest, no one else cares, we can all just keep ignoring them.
myladybloom: Hahahhahaha, I agree about the picture.
24We need to gender-neuter terms that apply to two different genders? Talk about wasting energy on something completely insignificant.
25I am a conservative, but I'm not against same-sex marriage. However, when I get married, I wouldn't want to be called Party A or Party B.
26But VanillaJ, nobody actually calls you that during the ceremony or anything! It's just on your marriage license, which in reality is kind of a boring legal document.
I don't want to be referred to as "lessee" either but alas, that is what my lease calls me!
I tried to cross it off and right "supreme dictator of the world" but my landlord said it wasn't legal.
27My marriage license doesn't specify ANY title (I just checked). It just has two blank lines where you write in the names -- not bride/groom, Party A/B, nothing at all. Interesting. I guess in the state where I was married, they assume you are smart enough to know that one person fills out one side with his/her information, and the other person fills out the other side. Frankly, I wouldn't care by what I was referred. The point of getting married is to GET MARRIED. I'd personally be offended if my spouse was more hung up on a title on a piece of paper that you never really use after your name change than wanting to actually be married to me. Get over it, and get married!
28for my own relationship i think that i like some of the tradition, being bride and groom vs. party a and party b. i think that you lose something if you make it less personal and less traditional since it's more like boding 2 items together vs. bonding two people together. i can understand the wish to make it more generic to allow for same sex unions, but i think that it's just taking it a bit too far if you're going to make it about 'parties' rather than people.
29Maybe California should consider doing what Julieulie's wedding license has, blank spaces to just write in whatever you want. I'm getting married in July so I haven't applied for the NJ license yet, but I'll be interested to see what it says since NJ allows civil unions now I believe.
However, I think a marriage is about the marriage - not a stupid piece of paper. Getting the license doesn't even mean that you ARE married, it just gives you permission in the State's eyes to GET married.
30I don't actually agree with the couple, but I can understand where they are coming from.
The marriage license is a tangible representation of their marriage and for some, that is a very important document...possibly one of the most important documents they will ever acquire. Like how a house you've lived in for years becomes more than just building materials, a marriage license can be seen as more than just a piece of paper.
I think their protest to the marriage license isn't helping them any, and will only postpone their ultimate goal of becoming a married couple. But whether I agree with them or not, I always like to see people standing up for what they believe in. Just because it doesn't matter to you, doesn't mean it is trivial.
31More politically correct whining nonsense. Pretty soon they will be complaining about Mr and Mrs.
They are words, dont give them power over your life.
32Wonderfully responsible for the father to encourage people not to sign the new marriage licenses. I agree with the comment about insurance, it's their fault if something happens and they're not covered.
I just got married in August, and honestly I can't tell you what my marriage license or application said (2 separate docs). What matters is we submitted the piece of paper within the allotted time as the clerk & recorder stipulated, we had a beautiful ceremony and we are legally married. We had a wedding to show everyone our love, but we understand that the DOCUMENT is the legal part, and it should be neutral. When you submit a joint tax return they don't ask for husband's name and wife's name, do they? Why should a marriage license be different?
My wish for all lovers soon have the opportunity to declare their love to the world as I have... I just happened to choose someone opposite me in gender.
33Great point about the tax-returns seamstress!
I think that the liscences should just be left blank. Why even bother saying "Party A & B". It should just have their names and signatures.
The only reason I can think of to be upset is some people like to frame their marriage liscence as decoration and party A and B is not as good looking.
Regardless, what a stupid thing to do. If they "remain uninsured" that is their own fault!
34Great point about the tax-returns seamstress!
I think that the liscences should just be left blank. Why even bother saying "Party A & B". It should just have their names and signatures.
The only reason I can think of to be upset is some people like to frame their marriage liscence as decoration and party A and B is not as good looking.
Regardless, what a stupid thing to do. If they "remain uninsured" that is their own fault!
35They sound like douchebags to me. They are just causing problems because they can. I'd want to be party A personally!
36I am not against same sex marriages, a few of my friends have significant others of the same gender. I am not also against the ideal of having "Party A" and "Party B" put on my liscence, although I certainly would not prefer it. Couldn't some common ground be found so that the document could be drawn up with "Bride" and "Groom" on those that wish that on theirs, "Party A" and "Party B" on those the want that on theirs, or, if one should choose, (look at SeptemberLights post) have nothing but signitures?
37Ugh, I hate these people. The presumption that they, white-middle class-cysgender-heterosexual-protestant people, should be /discriminated against/ by making a marriage license more inclusive? Give me a f*cking break. Wake up and smell the privilege.
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