Chuck Norris is on the list?! I guess he knows though:

Mr T. and Chuck Norris decided to spar, they travelled to the only safe place in the Universe, the beginning of time. They bowed to each other and Chuck launched in with a roundhouse kick. Mr. T blocked it, and the resulting pressure wave is commonly called the Big Bang.

LOL- sorry. I couldn't help it.

There is a difference between a religious belief without any data to back it up, and a scientific theory based on empirical observation and analysis. Our current theory of evolution may turn out to be off base, but it is still scientifically more sound than creationism.

I agree completely with you Jude. You said it in a much nicer way than I would have!

to Jude. Thank you!

With the economy in its current state, this seems a bad time to bring this up - unless you're trying to make a point about people with questionable critical thinking skills.

It's funny that this topic came up because I'm actually reading a book of writings by the Lubavitcher Rebbe (last spiritual leader of the a Chassidic movement of Orthodox Judaism) discussing the conflicts between science and religion, and how to resolve them. There is quite an interesting paper on evolution theory and the flaws inherent in extrapolating backwards from current data.

oh gees...seriously?! SERIOUSLY?!

I've always believed in teaching both probably because I was taught both when I went to elementary school in the mid 70's. It was taught with out passion or partisan and there was really no confusion about it. Sarah Palin also believes in teaching both I guess that's one thing we do agree on.

I also would like to know where the stat of 66% came from?

Oh geez Cyl, you're not one of those people who can't accept statistics on faith are you???

Studies show that 79% of statistics are BS. (Margin of error: +/- 5%)

Kids should be taught both so they can make their own choices. After all they are both theories.

Gravity is also a scientific theory.

Point?

I don't have a problem with people that believe both who don't take it quite so literally. Like dinosaurs came first and then the first mammals and THEN the first man and woman were Adam and Eve. That's fine.

But people that don't believe in evolution at ALL. I just don't even know what to say to that. There is scientific proof of evolution. BUT honestly what would you even say to people that refuse to believe it.

I went to a private school in Georgia. AND while, they DID teach evolution my teacher acted like it was a big joke. MIND-BOGGLING.

Personally, I've found it fairly easy to reconcile my personal belief in some form of higher, creative power, and in evolution. Why is it not possible that the power which created the Earth might not have simply set in motion the elements needed to eventually arrive at us? It seems more plausible to me than the fairy-tale idea of everything having been created whole and at once.

As for the earth being only 5768 years old, however, that I just can't get behind.

We were traveling recently, and had to stop at a rest stop to use the bathroom. The lady working the info desk asked where we were going. She gave us a couple of suggestions as far as a quicker route, and then suggested if we have time we could visit the Creation Museum.
My husband looked at her with a blank stare like "WTF???????"

Exactly Jude.

"if we have time we could visit the Creation Museum."

Please tell me you went there and can tell us what kind of exhibits there are!

Hhahaha Jude "Please tell me you went there and can tell us what kind of exhibits there are!" Noah's ark?

And on the note about me questioning all statistics. I did my undergrad in politics and working marketing and communications right now. one thing I have learned is stats are B.S. I never take stats at face value. Where did you get your sample? How big was your sample? Margin or error...and don't let me get into how you can twist stats. Yes they are numbers but its all spin spin spin baby!

Jude, I went on the website, it actually looks pretty interesting! they have dinosaur exhibits, a walk through "biblical history" that takes you into a theater showing "the last adam";

This powerful presentation is the dramatic culmination to the museum’s walk through biblical history. Experience the story of God’s redemptive plan across the ages, from the beginning of time through the death, resurrection, and return of Jesus Christ, the Last Adam

I wouldnt however pay 21.95 a piece to see it.

Wow apparently I did not take English and Grammar in school. I meant " did my undergrad in politics and I am working marketing and communications right now"

Hmmm.

It just seems odd to have enough material to be able to dedicate an entire museum to a Biblical theory with so little scientific basis or physical evidence and artifacts (artifacts backing up creation theory, I mean). If I was in the area, I might just shell out the $22 to satisfy my curiosity.

Thanks for the info, CG!

http://www.creationmuseum.org/about

yeah, I think that's the one. We were somewhere in Ohio when we made that rest stop, so that must be it.

And no, we did not go there.

my evolutionary psychology class is the most interesting class i have ever taken in college and it just makes so much more sense than anything i ever learned in my high school religion classes. lovee evolution

I get really frustrated when this topic arises, because I can't stand to see creationism and evolution held up as equals, like it's a matter of coke or pepsi, just a matter of personal belief or opinion. Like, we should also present kids with both the round earth and flat earth theories, let them decide for themselves what they want to believe.

Coke. Pepsi is the work of the devil.

Going with coke too.

I don't understand why creationism has to be taught either. I am not Christian and am not interested in someone else teaching me their religion as fact. I would be livid if my child was taught creationism alongside evolution in school.

Safeway store brand cola beats Coke and Pepsi!

puh-leeze. If we really want our country to go down the toilet, let's just stop teaching science altogether. At this rate, we'll be 25 years behind China...

Jude - I agree that we can reconcile the two theories quite easily. But in order to do so you have to first believe that there is a higher power guiding a pushing the universe in a desired direction. Not necessarily our desired direction, but his.

Not necessarily, Dave. I do believe in a higher power that may well have created the seeds of life and the universe as we know it today, but I don't think that means I need to believe in that power's continued omnipotence, omniscience, or guidance of the universe's direction. I don't think the two necessarily need to go together.

But I respect your differing belief.

I believe that if you want your children to learn creationism, take them to church (there's practically one on every corner where I live) and leave our public schools alone. Let us evolution believers have the one place we can still take our children too without having a religion lesson--that's what churches are for! Separation of church and state. This is one topic I can get so fired up about.

I agree with gebeers.

Yeah, I can see
That's too bad sense this great nation wasn't created with that in mind. It was created to give everyone the opportunity to practice whatever religion they wanted, not necessarily a separation from religion. Maybe we would be more willing to be more inclusive of all religions if we weren't spending so much time running from them.

Teach both?

While we're at it, why don't we also include the Genesis stories of Hinduism, Islam, Buddhism, and other major religions who have worshippers represented here in the United States? The main justification of teaching both seems to be that kids deserve to choose which 'theories' make more sense to them. . . Well only presenting one religion's view on the matter sure doesn't sound like there's any possibility for choice or debate to me.

If you want your kids to learn about Creationism as 'fact' (as opposed to within the confines of a World Religion/Philosophy class), send them to a Fundamental Christian school which you pay for yourself, end of story. In our nation, you do not teach religious doctrine in public domain. You do not take tax dollars possibly collected from Hindi, Muslim, Buddhist etc. families, and use them to promote a different religion's ideology! To me, that is completely unacceptable, and Un-American.

"It was created to give everyone the opportunity to practice whatever religion they wanted"

I see what you mean, Dave, but the problem with that is that then, if creationism--which is a Christian theory--is taught as valid science in public schools funded by public money, then that makes it seem as if the government is specifically endorsing Christianity as more valid than the other religions whose creation myths aren't given equal classroom time and treatment. It becomes about the government endorsing one creed's beliefs over others, and that's when the separation of church and state becomes an issue.

The City Girl...you just said everything I wanted to say...in a much more eloquent way...

Seperation of Church, State and Education people!

Creationism isn't just a Judeo-Christian teaching. There are creation stories in most (I'd say all, but there are some that I am not sure of) major religions. IMO, we should share ALL creation stories. I also think evolution should be taught, because it is the science behind the theory of creationism.

"IMO, we should share ALL creation stories. I also think evolution should be taught, because it is the science behind the theory of creationism."

Well, that makes all the difference to me, Dave. The big problem I have with the push for creationism being taught in public schools is that a great deal of the push seems to come from the religious right, which has, of course, a specifically Christian agenda.

I still don't agree with creationism being taught as a science, however. I have no issue with students being exposed to the theory, but it seems to me to be much more of a humanities subject--it's religion and myth--than a science.

Everyone does have the right to practice any religion, unDave and I certainly respect their choices, but I also would like the same consideration in return. Not everyone is religious and believes in it, and I hope people will respect those people too. There are so many other institutions that teach creationism that why take the public schools too?

Creation stories you mention = the Genesis stories to which I referred above. Fair enough, Dave, if you think they should all get equal representation. I guess the question I have to you, then, would be: do you believe that their place is in the SCIENCE classroom?

I wouldn't have a problems if children were taught an elective World Religions/Philosophy class as long as the curriculum presented numerous belief systems in an equal and unbiased manner.

I DO have a problem with religious ideology being taught under the guise of Science.

"I DO have a problem with religious ideology being taught under the guise of Science."

Nicely put, and I agree wholeheartedly.

Hahaha Jude, we're obviously in agreement as usual (I was working on my comment while you posted yours so I didn't see it!)

Ahahah it happened again! Creepy!

Creationism IS NOT science - the scientific method is very clearly defined (and btw, ID is also NOT science: absence of proof is NOT proof of absence).

By all means teach it in religion or ethics class, but NOT in science class.

Learning french or spanish is good, but you shouldn't be learning it in math class (even if math seems like a foreign language to you).

I frankly find it embarrassing that as a nation we are having this discussion at all.

And yes (full disclosure) I'm a geologist.... who believes that 6000 years ago God created the earth exactly how it is today: flat, and at the center of the solar system....

Creationism is not a theory, it is a fiction.
Religious stories should be kept to the confines of religious class or better yet church.
The rise of fundamentalism world wide is alarming to say the least.

Hey I'm a philosopher, please keep creationism out of Philosophy classes too, we don't deal in bs. Take a mathematical logic class or two if you don't believe me!

Torg said it perfectly, this is not a Coke or Pepsi issue! I mean, if you want a Pepsi, you don't go to your Ace Hardware store and get all angry when you find out they only sell tools, and that you need to go to the grocery store to get Pepsi. So go to church to get your creation myths, whether they be Christian, Hindu, whatever. Not teaching them in school is NOT preventing anyone from learning creationism, you have every right to learn and believe what you want. I am really trying to picture this debate going on in Germany, China and Japan right now.

PM: "So how should we become a world power, through strengthening our economy and educating our workforce?"
Advisor: No, let's teach some myths as facts instead. Ughhhh.