The second I remember to quit grumbling when I get a paper bag with no handles instead of the evil that is the plastic bag, the whole eco-mantra of choosing paper could be dumped on its head. One man, Stephen Joseph, is out to save the plastic bag. He's head of the campaign called Save the Plastic Bag, and he means business.
Even though his battle ramped a little more uphill after LA became the most recent US city to can the bags on Tuesday, he's convinced he has facts on his side. On his website, the well-named SaveThePlasticBags, he lists the reasons to choose plastic over paper:
- Roaches love paper bags — they attract them.
- When paper bags decompose, they release methane.
- Paper bags take up more space to transport (making more trucks on the road and more space taken in landfills if they end up there.
That's not all. To see why the global backturning on the bag may have been too hasty, read more.
- Paper bags require 71 percent more energy to make and recycle.
- Plastic bags consume 6 percent of the water needed to make paper bags.
And he's got much more on his website. His main complaint? The rush to ditch the plastic hasn't been fully examined. "My research into this issue has proved to me that something funny is going on. The anti-plastic-bag campaigners are not being challenged. . . . This is not an issue that belongs in the left bucket or the right bucket. It's about truth. And I'm determined to make it register."
Now that you know the facts, let me temper them with this: Joseph is also the attorney representing plastic bag companies. What's a shopper to think? Maybe the devil doesn't wear plastic after all?
Kurt Geiger
Bring your own cloth bag or a basket.
1I just heard about Seattle taxing 20 cents per plastic bag starting soon. That just irks me!
2I get paper because it's the default at my neighborhood Trader Joe's, and it's easier to carry on the walk home.
3I bring my own reusuable tote bags.
4I remember years ago going back on forth on this debate because I didn't know if paper was better than plastic. Both have their cons after they are used and breakdown differently if at all. I finally gave up and have been dependent on my cadre of cloth bags for a while now. Over the years I have been given cloth bags from Patagonia, conferences, merchants who are generous, etc. I think they can be done super chic and have consistently been conversation pieces.
5Well I can see his point about taking up more space in land fills and releasing methane gas etc. This is precisely why all paper just like all plastic bags should be recycled. We should also be using reusable bags when ever possible especially on those trips to the grocery store.
6I just eat the groceries in the checkout line.
7Anything I finish, I don't have to pay for!
8I totally think this guy has a point, with the not enough challenging and all, and so what, maybe plastic is better than paper, but reusable is better than both, and probably better than that would be teleporting all our groceries home but they would never give you free teleportation devices at the store and, of course, they'd be so expensive to buy, and what if after all the energy used to make the devices we'd actually all be better off toting Styrofoam home; although, the device could be like a kiosk and you could punch in your code and have all your crap magically appear at home at the receiving end of the transponder, yet, i now have safety concerns, which makes me wonder about the whole feasibility, but it's a good idea, yes, it's a grand thing.
9I have 2 reusable bags at home, why am I not using them? OK, that's it, I am going to take my own bags to the store from now on.
10There is a store here that has reusable bags, but they want you to pay $1.00 for them. Hmmm, I'll take paper.
11Can you take those bags back to the store the next time you shop, and reuse them?
12Yes, but why should I have to purchase the bags to save the store money?
13I bring my own bags. Some stores here (Seattle) will credit you back the .20 towards your total if you bring your own bag. Whole Foods allows you to donate your credit to a local farmer's market organization, which I do whenever I shop there. Lots of people here are irked about the .20 charge, Hunterme. But many stores are handing out free reusable bags as promotions, so I guess people can get those now and just keep bringing them back. It is annoying however, if I only bring one bag and need two...
14I can't think of a store here locally that even offers paper bags. All have a recycle box for plastic bags though.
15Martini, I would be irked! Good luck with it!
16No matter what we use, if everyone RECYCLED there wouldn't be so many problems.
17Well, it is not the government's job to force to recycle. No matter how noble the intentions, you can not, nor should you be forced to do this by the government.
18What will I use to clean up doggie dootie?
I think 20 cents is pretty high. Cans and bottles only charge you 5-10 cents. I think this cost increase will hurt the lower incomes the most.
19I agree Jill about who will hurt the most. People should decide for themselves decisions like this.
20If governments end up having to spend more to clear stuffed storm drains of plastic bags or having to pay workers to pick them up from public property, yeah I think they can mandate recycling, or ban them.
21What else should the government force you to do? Where are you getting the facts that this is where a good chunk of their time is spent?
22Most major cities have pretty comprehensive recycling programs. It's the small towns (like mine) that burn almost everything that we need to work on.
23I said 'if' Hunter, If they end up...
24Given how you have been spitting out personal life experience as fact lately, it was a good question to ask. I am sure though education, roads, public safety and other issues will rate second to the plastic trash bags you are so concerned over and government will take your fiscal policy lead.
25Hmmmm. anyone else want a drink? :drink:
26Ugh! What is the emoticon link?
27Dave, you are just trying to take advantage of people's youth again
28Here you go Dave: http://teamsugar.com/group/82779/blog/258833
29Hunter, that was completely rude and uncalled for. The first sentence is just snarky and related to nothing. And I've said nothing about being concerned over plastic bags. I said I use a reusable bag and that the government could force recycling if the cleaning up the bags ends up costing the government.
30Steph, it is not rude, it is just an observation. You have said similar, if not same things to a number of people today alone.
31It is not my intention to fight, however it seems that people on here are becoming more and more vicious in their attacks and that everyone is on edge.
32Jill, I think they have something in place to try to help poorer people not have to pay - I believe they waive the fee if you are paying with food stamps or the public assistance cards. But, lots of poor people don't qualify for that type of assistance, so I think it will hurt them. But, I think with lots of stores giving out reusable bags for free in the beginning, people will have the reusable bags and pretty soon it won't be such a big deal. But it will drive me nuts when I underestimate the number of bags I need for my grocery haul and need to pay for one from the store!!!
One of the reasons for this whole thing started from (from what I understand) the fact that plastic bags will get into the Puget Sound and create a huge problem pollution-wise and with wild life. It then expanded from there.
Also, there is going to be a total ban on styrofoam food and beverage containers beginning Jan. 1 and by June 2009 plastic forks and such will have to be the special compostable kind.
33Thanks Hunter.
34Thanks Martini! You are all knowing and wise
35Drinks all around!!
36:drink:
Yeah, Dave, a drink sounds really good about right now!
37Hey, when are we gonna get a male drinker? Who do I ask about that?
38Hunterme - will you think any less of me if I admit that all my intelligence comes from Google???
39Never Martini! I love you too much
40Dave, I've always thought of this one as "male"....
41awww, hunterme....
42OK. I'll accept that.
43I concur... that is the male drink! Guinness for your health!
44The only problem is I'm not a big fan of Guinness. I don't like beer that I have to cut and eat...
45Has anyone been to the Guinness factory in Ireland? I enjoyed it and at the end of the tour you got Guinness
46I'm with George Carlin on this. The earth has been around for billions of years... and we think some plastic bags are going to make a difference?! Relax, people.
47haha thanks Jeffers!
48The tricky part with comparing paper to plastic bags is that doing a life cycle analysis is extremely complicated, and some data is hard to determine. How far are you shipping the bags? How much can each bag hold? How much do the bags weigh? Depending on what factors you include, one will likely weigh out the other. But I figured we should just stop using any new bags and try reusing some bags for a while. Don't go out and buy new tote bags. Just reuse your paper and plastic bags, and use what fabric bags you already have. The real issue is that we keep making the different bags, so they're going to continue to cause problems.
49Good points graduated.
time for bed. Good night all!
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