Good for them, and good for the companies.

I knew Dave would like this

I agree though, these will give inmates skills they can use after they're done serving their sentences, plus it's much better than exploiting cheap child labor in third world countries.

Agreed - this could give inmates some job skills for when they are released.

"plus it's much better than exploiting cheap child labor in third world countries" - Right on, Syako! Great point!

I agree.

I saw a story on the news a few months ago about a program where prisoners with records of good behavior train guide dogs; that seemed like a great program, as well.

Fabulous, this is very productive and helping them give something back.

I think it's great that we're using the Chinese system of labor too! Go corporations! They're so great!

Yeah, it's really great that instead of paying decent wages to honest workers corporations like Victoria's Secret can get state workers to make their stuff on the cheap. Great job training too - but oops, to get the work you have to be in prison.

Do we know for sure that they are paying substandard wages? The article only gives wage information in one case.

Stephley, I think this can help prisoners get on the right track once they get out. Many prisoners have not held a productive job, this can help them gain not only some skill, but also learn the necessary perseverence to hold a job. BTW, do you have any idea how much they get paid? I would be curious to know....and also to know where the money goes? Into a fund for them when they get out?

lilkimbo, I read an article that said that inmates will get 30-50 cents an hour for the work they do... I believe that is substandard

And, if we ever hope to cut down on recidivism rates, we need to provide job training to prisoners. Steph, I'm surprised that you would suggest that just because these people have made one mistake that lands them in prison they are less worthy of job training than others and are not "honest workers." (Correct me if that's not what you're saying.)

Did that pertain to this work in particular? I know that's true of state work, but what about work they do for corporations?

Ok, I am an idiot - I didn't even NOTICE the link to the MJ story...my bad! That does seem like a huge drop in wage for the instance they gave...but, it does note that the money goes to the inmate AFTER fines and restitution payments - if inmates are doing this to provide restitution to their vicitims, I am for that!

And your condescending tone is not necessary, bleached.

I wasn't trying to be condescending and I apologize if it came out that way.
I believe the article was for state work.

Sorry, bleached, I may have been too sensitive. I did ask for the info, I just took offense to you saying, "I believe that is substandard!" I am glad to know you didn't mean it in a rude way, though!

Sounds like the domestic version of exploiting cheap labor in foreign countries to me, but if it gives inmates job skills that may help them once they've gotten out of the pokey, that's fine by me.

I think the dog-training idea is a really good idea. Kill two birds with one stone...produce well trained dogs for the state and give prisoners a sense of pride and accomplishment. That really can't be a bad thing. I don't have statistics, but I think you'll find that people that have satisfaction with their lives through work and accomplishment, don't commit more crimes.

I understand what you mean Jude, but don't you think that designating cheap labor to those who must pay penance is better than designating cheap labor to people who are being exploited for the mere fact that they are easy to exploit..

I agree Jude and lovelie. I think almost (- I'll keep some of my opinions to myself here) everyone can be rehabilitated given the proper circumstances...

I think this is fantastic and while they're at it they can wash my car too, lol.

I'm all for prisoners being put to work but the work I have in mind is not packing coffee or sowing me up a new brazier, oops did I say me, teehee!

IMO if inmates are going to work they should be do more public service oriented jobs such as picking up trash on the side of the hwy. scraping that ugly unsightly blackened gum covered side walk, and cleaning public parks. On a higher profile level they could also go around to secondary schools and speak to kids about the importance of getting a good education so that they don't end up where they are.

"I understand what you mean Jude, but don't you think that designating cheap labor to those who must pay penance is better than designating cheap labor to people who are being exploited for the mere fact that they are easy to exploit.."

It's ethically only slightly better, I think, but I did say it's fine by me I just don't necessarily think that being exploited for cheap labor by corporations driven much less by interest in criminals' rehabilitation than they are by the bottom line should be a part of penance/time served.

Ultimately, though, I did say it's fine by me. I have no real problem with it.

To which jobs will they be able to transfer the skills they've learned in prison? More bra stitching? Like I said, they'll have to be in prison to find work. Did anyone really need to check the article before figuring out that the prisoners weren't getting regular wages?

I'm fine with prisoners working and learning skills, but not to the benefit of corporations that are simply getting cheap, controlled labor. Create a partnership with Goodwill or the Salvation Army - create a prison industry with products that are clearly marked as prison made and turn the profits around for restitution and job training programs.

This smacks more of feudalism than capitalism. And if we're going to do things like the foreigners, in this I'd much rather emulate Europe than China.

I agree that we need to provide training and rehabilitation to prisoners. But I don't think this is the right way to accomplish that. Why not have classes? The corporations are only doing it to save money, not because they think it's great for the inmates. Besides, once these prisoners are releasedthey won't be able to get these jobs because they are only available to inmates. Kind of a Catch 22.

"...corporations driven much less by interest in criminals' rehabilitation than they are by the bottom line should be a part of penance/time served." - I agree. Sorry I didn't mean to come off as adversarial.
Steph- I also agree with your point of view. I think that service-orientated tasks such as the dog training is a much better substitute than working on a factory line. There is nothing satisfying or honor provoking about building bras (at least not IMO) and such a task will not help anyone but corporations.

wait...so it costs them pennies to make that $35 dollar bra - I'm upset!

sewing is a pretty cool skill, IMO. maybe it could lead to other things, like sewing clothes, or becoming a tailor or seamstress. people have to sew tents, parachutes, backpacks, convertible car tops, handbags... those are a few things I can think of. i watch too much "How It's Made" I think.

I would need more information than what the MJ article gives. If they are making minimum wage and then only pocket pennies because of restitution, I do not have a problem with it.

I also think there are job training advantages - maybe they won't be able to find the same job outside of prison - but they can use the fact that they learned a skill/gained work experience as a selling point. And as far as the dog training thing I something similar and know it was a huge self-esteem boost for the guys involved.

i don't understand why doing something good has to be 100% out of the goodness of your heart, why can't it be good for the person doing it too?

its like that friends episode where phoebe can't find something thats a good deed that doesn't benefit her in some.

who cares if corporations benefit? its still a good thing to do and still provides people with skills, a job, and sense of ownership on something. so if a corporation gets something out of it too then all of those good things just fly out the window and don't matter?

that makes no sense at all.

besides it beats picking up trash on the highway... at least this is a skill they can take with them.

or do we not have a problem with them picking up trash because it doesn't benefit a corporation?

also I think a factory job is something many people strive for. For those who don't have degrees or technical skills, a steady job is a lifesaver. For someone who can't work hard manual labor like in a railyard or in construction, a factory line job might be preferable, and totally respectable.

With 3 large factories in the town where my wife served as her first call, it was the ONLY dream for many HS students. It was like pulling teeth getting some of the smarter kids to even think about going to college. The attitude was "Factory work was good enough for my parents, it's good enough for me." I'm not intentionally knocking factory work, but some of these kids we straight A students, but have not been outside of their hometown.

The problem with corporate prisons is that they need to "recruit" ie arrest more people to keep the work flow on track. It sets society up for a very bad precedent. Justice isn't always blind. Let's get real here.

"some of these kids we straight A students, but have not been outside of their hometown."

That's so sad.

I'm confused. I thought these were inmates at "regular" prisons, not corporate prisons.

Look up "Prison Industrial Complex" to see what I mean.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison-industrial_complex

yaya - Here on sugar, we like to show support for our arguments. Do you have anything verifiable to back up these allegations?

How about something that isn't on wikipedia.

Any benefits to a corporation should apply equally to the state and or the prisoners - you want to train people to sew your bras? Give them greater consideration for jobs at competitive wages when they get out. The same when prisoners are used for construction or any other work.
But these programs don't seem to me to offer much to anyone but the corporations - from the article:

"According to Prison Legal News, Boeing subcontractor MicroJet had prisoners cutting airplane components, paying $7 an hour for work that paid union wages of $30 on the outside. ((Could have made restitution to more people if the company even paid $15 an hour to prisoners))

A stitch in time:...a California prison put two men in solitary for telling journalists they were ordered to replace "Made in Honduras" labels on garments with "Made in the usa." ((I love this - pay them to lie to consumers while they're in prison))

On call: Its inmate call centers are the "best kept secret in outsourcing," Unicor boasts. In 1994, a contractor for gop congressional hopeful Jack Metcalf hired Washington state prisoners to call and remind voters he was pro-death penalty. Metcalf, who prevailed, said he never knew.

I think its a good thing that they are give job training to the inmate's. My boo works with kids and youth and some of them when they get out of jail are kinda lost. They lack social skills and job experience they need to work. I think that in addition to giving them this important experience they should try to target the skills they receive. What I mean to say is something practical skill that they could easily use when they are offered a job.

Wikipedia is a perfectly valid source for superficial research. It's not as unreliable as it used to be...

Yaya, I'm not an idiot; I know what a corporate prison is. I don't see any evidence that these programs tie into corporate prisons.

I can go in right now and change that wiki. its still unreliable.

I read the link to make sure I wasn't missing anything, but #1) it's not about corporate prisons, and #2) it doesn't tie the theory it mentions into what this article is about.

never said it wasn't. I'm not going to base an entire doctoral thesis on what's written on Wikipedia...
just said that it wasn't AS unreliable. There are a lot more checks and balances now.

"never said it wasn't. I'm not going to base an entire doctoral thesis on what's written on Wikipedia..."

Wait, this isn't a good idea? I guess it's a good thing the thesis I wrote based on it was only for undergrad.

wah wah waaaaaaaaah

I forgot to answer the question. If I knew that company like starbucks used prisoners for work, I would still buy from them. I know it probley sounds bad but honestly can you imangine how many other companys actully use this and dont make it public? I wonder if there would be anything as a consumer (other than not buying the product) we could do to express how we feel about this?

who different emoticon!

you know what's another one I recently discovered