Let's take a drug that is dangerous, and have our government pay people to grow it. I think not.

there are many things I find dangerous in the world, addictive drugs like coke and heroin, walking to my car alone at night, and snakes to name a few. marijuana would not make the list. if Canada figures out a way to make economic profits off something (RELATIVELY) harmless (on par with alcohol and cigarettes) then you'll hear no complaints from me.

Ha! Now that's how you do it!

And I agree, em--it's on a par with booze and smoking.

You can make $80,000/year from growing pot?? I agree with Em and Jude - I lump it in the same category as cigarettes and booze.

Come on Canada, lead the way to freedom and liberty!

It's hard for me to understand how alcohol is legal and pot is not.

Pop, I think it's at least partly about racism. Back in the day Native Americans and Mexicans smoked pot, while white men drank alcohol. At least that was the generalization. Anyway, if you can get people worked up enough about dangerous Indians smoking the reefer and raping white women, it's not too difficult to demonize marijuana.

Good point, Michelin.

There is still an element of that thanks to marijuana smuggling from Mexico.

Sigh, it isn't racist. It goes back to fueds between cotton growers vs. hemp growers. Power was behind the cotton so hemp was ousted.

That's definitely a part of it, GS, but more than one element went into the criminalization of marijuana.

Salon.com has a great history of marijuana criminalization. It includes a few quotes widely attributed to Henry Anslinger, first director of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (formed 1930), and reflective of the times:

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others."

"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."

"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."

I'll put the link to the Salon article in a post below, because I don't want to run the chance of this one getting flagged (since I spent a few minutes pasting in those quotes!).

Argh, my comment got flagged.

I see your point, GS, but there was more than one element that went into the criminalization of marijuana, and I do think racism was another element.

Salon has a great article up about the criminalization of marijuana. Among the highlights, here are some quotes widely attributed to Henry Anslinger, inaugural director of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (established 1930):

"There are 100,000 total marijuana smokers in the US, and most are Negroes, Hispanics, Filipinos, and entertainers. Their Satanic music, jazz, and swing, result from marijuana use. This marijuana causes white women to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and any others."

"...the primary reason to outlaw marijuana is its effect on the degenerate races."

"Reefer makes darkies think they're as good as white men."

More highlights of that article: Criminalization in the Western states began when Mormons who traveled to Mexico in the early 1900s returned with marijuana; the problem was, of course, attributed to weed-smokin' Mexicans. In the Eastern states, the marijuana problem was attributed to Latin Americans and black jazz musicians.

Argh!!! My post keeps getting flagged even though I'm not cursing or posting links!!!

I see your point, GS, but there was more than one element that contributed to weed criminalization. I just read a great article on Salon that gives a brief history of criminalization, and it's pretty clear that racism--in the western states, against Mexicans, and in the eastern part of the country, against blacks--contributed.

And I would post a link and quotes, but I'm afraid to get flagged again. I'll figure something out...

Jude, they all just popped up at once! Good points in all of them, by the way, thanks for doing all that research!

We could all find links to support our cases on this issue. I basically majored in pot the first couple years of college, lol. I did paper after paper in my political science classes about legalization.

Oh, crap. Sorry, sorry, everyone--looks like both my attempts got un-flagged at the same time!

lol, I wonder why they were flagged?

I'm definitely not saying one of us is right here and one wrong, GS. Like I said, I just think that there was more than the one reason pot was criminalized.

Maybe I said "marijuana" too much?

GS, I've never read anything about what you're saying, and it may be the case, but there was certainly also an element of racism. During the debates in the Texas senate, a senator said on the floor; "All Mexicans are crazy, and this stuff is what makes them crazy." The commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics (Henry Anslinger) wrote a letter supporting the Marihuana Tax Act that said; "I wish I could show you what a small marijuana cigarette can do to one of our degenerate Spanish-speaking residents. That's why our problem is so great; the greatest percentage of our population is composed of Spanish-speaking persons, most of whom are low mentally". The same thing happened with Chinese immigrants and opium. It's silly to deny that racism has anything to do with why certain drugs are illegal, and with the way the drug war is still being fought.

I've had people work for me that constatnly smoked pot. They couldn't get to work on time, and when they did show up, all they could talk about is going home and getting high. Pot is dangerous and despite what the public thinks, has been proven to be addictive. While it may not be as addictive as cocain, or other more dangerous drugs, it is still addictive, and should therefore continue to be banned.

Of course there are stoners, Dave, but then again, there are also alcoholics who can't make it in to work on time or call in sick because they're hung over, who drink on the job, and who then drive home drunk. Of course there are dangers to marijuana; I don't think anyone here said there weren't. But are the dangers worse in comparison to alcohol and the health risks worse in comparison to tobacco?

UnDave, just because you've met a few idiots who couldn't handle their choices doesn't mean other people can't smoke marijuana and still be responsible. Just as some people can responsibly use alcohol, others can use marijuana and still lead successful, productive lives.

Really, what senator? I have beenl looking and can't find any proof of that besides a verbatim of your quote in two yahoo answers posts.

And as far as your other post goes, here is the whole story.

Harry J. Anslinger, the commissioner of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics, the organization in charge of instituting marijuana prohibition, presented a letter he received from the editor of a Colorado newspaper as part of his testimony in favor of the Marihuana Tax Act. The letter described an attack by a Mexican-American under the influence of marijuana on a girl in the region and went on to state, "I wish I could show you what a small marijuana cigarette can do to one of our degenerate Spanish-speaking residents. That's why our problem is so great; the greatest percentage of our population is composed of Spanish-speaking persons, most of whom are low mentally, because of social and racial conditions."

For awhile anyway, Mich. The people I have known who continue to smoke over the years have no goals. No desire to strive for more. You would be lying to yourself if you said that the majority of people who have been smoking for ten + years are in any high power or high responsiblity job.

Thanks for the clarification on that quote, GS--but the quote itself, and its use and context, still show how racism was manipulated to help criminalize marijuana.

"Pot is dangerous and despite what the public thinks, has been proven to be addictive. While it may not be as addictive as cocain [sic], or other more dangerous drugs, it is still addictive, and should therefore continue to be banned"

Then Dave... Tell me why nicotine isn't a banned substance? Cigarettes are just as addictive if not more so. I had a much harder time quitting smoking cigarettes than I did giving up smoking pot.

In part, but that was the tail end of a long battle.

Because the effects of marijuana last a lot longer than alcohol, and the effects increase over time for long term users, marijuana is definitely worse than smoking or drinking.

And I see Mich is desperately searching for a source on the Texas statement. There isn't one.

And another thing, Mich, may I ask your age?

Dave, tell that to someone with lung, throat or mouth cancer... Or someone that has liver disease because of their heavy drinking... I don't see how long term effects on heavy users of marijuana are worse (I'm not saying they're better)...

GS, who are you to make choices for these people just because their life goals don't live up to you standards? That is an extremely arrogant attitude. If somebody is content in their lives and responsible in their choices, why should the government dictate what they can do with their own bodies? Certainly not all CEOs smoke, but maybe they smoked recreational marijuana when they were in college. Should they be in prison instead of heading a corporation? Furthermore, people are successful in different ways. Jerry Garcia made more money than most people ever will, and I'm sure plenty of people consider him successful. People should be able to live the lives they want. If they make choices that hurt other people, the government should punish them. However, if they're only "hurting themselves", it isn't anybody's business. That is the definition of liberty.

Not everyone gets lung or throat cancer from smoking, and not everyone gets liver disease from drinking. 100% of the people who smoke marijuana have the problems because of the long term usage.

GS, you can ask but you're not going to get an answer. I'll just say that I'm mature enough to realize I can only make decisions for myself. I don't have the wisdom to know whats best for every other individual on the planet, and neither does anybody else. Clearly, you haven't lived long enough yet to realize that.

First off, still waiting for my senator. Second, my parents are great big hippies. I have stated that in other posts. Third, I am closest to libertarian than any other party. Fourth, I clearly stated I smoked more than my weight of pot in my younger days, so that completely wipes out half your rant. Musicians seem to be the exception to my job analysis. And it isn't my standards. It is the standards of the children that grow up under these parents who smoke. Mine luckily gave up smoking before we came around, but their friends did no such thing. I saw the effects on the families. Always scraping by, barely. Because, man, you don't need much, man. Tell that to the kids. I am guessing you are a college student who enjoys an occasional, or more frequent dose of cannabis. If so, that is fine with me. Just don't get caught. I have a problem with the out of college crowd who just won't grow up and realize that pot IS affecting their lives.

And in response to your last post, sigh

Marijuana is addictive in the same way that alcohol is. Some people develop dependency, but the substance itself is not addictive like nicotine. So unless we're banning alcohol, the addiction line really doesn't hold up. And c'mon there's a difference between pot heads and people that smoke just as there is a difference between alcoholics and people that drink.... And now that I think of it, I know plenty of people a few years out of college working 60+ hours in highly competitive careers who would fall into the pot head category, somehow it has never interfered with their work. But hey, let's generalize!

Yes Em. And according to Dave, 100% of your friends are going develop health problems.

Em, let's see where they are in 10 years being "potheads". Seriously, I don't see how anyone can't understand and see what long term pot does. Having been raised around people who smoke several times a day, you see that the "silly old hippie" stereotype is around for a reason.

GS, I'm not sure I understand your point. From your last statement, it sounds like you think marijuana should be legal. If that's the case, we don't really have a problem. I believe that people have to make the right choices for themselves. It is entirely possible for some people to smoke without it negatively effecting their lives. Just because you've seen a few families that you didn't approve of doesn't make this not true.

"And it isn't my standards. It is the standards of the children that grow up under these parents who smoke. "

That is still your standards of what you think their kids should have.

GS, I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't side effects or consequences. I think what we are trying to say is that the "silly old hippie" is no worse than the alcoholic. Alcohol ruins lives as well yet we make alcohol accessible.

And GS, I don't appreciate the condescending "sigh" and the eye roll. It is unnecessary and adds nothing to the conversation.

Good grief, it isn't a matter of approval. It is life. You take care of you and yours. And it isn't a few families. It was my childhood. And most of who I knew in college. Of course, most the heavier smokers didn't finish college. I am for legalizing it and taking the hell out of it. I am just arguing against anyone who says it has no effect on a person. And, it started when I disagreed with you about it's criminalization.

That was the first response and most fitting to this statement

"Clearly, you haven't lived long enough yet to realize that."

Yeah, it definitely effects people. I don't think they'd do it otherwise

Em - where do they work? What kind of career do they have? McDonald's manager doesn't count.

GS, that statement was made with the assumption you were against legalization. I hadn't read your posts clearly enough and I apologize for that.

UnDave, why doesn't McDonald's manager count? If somebody is happy working hard managing and McDonald's and coming home to a joint, then who are you to decide if they're successful or not?

Or NOT working hard for that matter.

Because, having been a McD's manager, I can safely say that being a McD's manager doesn't necessarily take a whole lot of brain power to achieve. I'm not knocking people who have made a career out of fast food, because we need those people. I'm just saying that I don't consider McD's manager a successful career, where one can make millions.

Success is whatever an individual believes it to be. Just because you wouldn't personally be satisfied with that life doesn't make it a bad one.