Photographs published yesterday showing Italian sunbathers going about their sun soaking despite the nearby corpses of two drowned Roma children are causing a splash across all of Italy. The two girls, both younger than 15, drowned Saturday in strong currents despite rescue efforts, and the bodies were laid in the sun awaiting emergency services.
One of the ambulance drivers said, "we picked up the bodies amid total indifference." An Italian newspaper says, "while the lifeless bodies of the girls were still on the sand, there were those who carried on sunbathing or having lunch just a few meters away." Lunch.
The incident is a graphic pictorial display of tension between the ethnic Romas (also called Gypsies), and other locals. Recent crackdowns on the population, combined with the controversy surrounding the current census, has led to a visit by a European human rights group who heard of the plan to fingerprint all Roma, including children. Some have compared this idea (which is on hold for now) to the Nazi treatment of the Jews.
What's behind the tension? To find out, read more.
An estimated 150,000 Roma live in encampments on the edges of Italian cities. Though they're a distinct ethnic group with origins in northern India, just over 40 percent of modern Roma are legal Italians, possessing Italian passports. When Romania joined the EU last year, the population grew and questions regarding the new arrivals' lifestyle spark problems and hostility.
Many Italians are openly aggressive toward the population, accusing them of refusing to work in favor of stealing and shunning their seclusion in squalid, illegal camps. Pro-Roma critics say that Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has exploited anti-Roma feeling for political gain.
The situation Italy faces, depicted graphically in these photos, with the Roma sounds similar to other nations facing immigration struggles. Is there a Roma equivalent in most nations — do recent immigrants always face discrimination and exploitation? Or does behavior, rather than immigrant status, count more?
Kit Heath
CAFe'NOIR
Serfontaine
ugh. sick.
1I just cannot imagine anyone callously sunbathing and EATING LUNCH while there are dead bodies lying on the beach a few feet away! I find it appalling!
2Well I'm not going to debate internal Italian cultural clashes. There are just too many questions that I would ask. Were the deceased alive during rescue attempts and how did the surrounding sun bathers react at that moment? Some cultures are just different about death. Once you’re dead your dead what are they going to do?
3Something similar to this happened in Hartfod, CT. An elderly was crossing the street when two cars in the midst of some type of street race came flying down the road and hit him. Neither car stopped and bystanders did nothing but stand over the body. Cars pulled over to look and then drove off. A man on a motorcycle circled the body to have a look and then drove off. He only got help when a police officer responding to a different call came by. Sick.
4yeah hypno, some of the things they did seemed callous, like eating lunch. but i'm not sure what one would be expected to do. jump up and wail? many may have shown quiet deference. we don't know what was going on in people's heads, really. the callous thing was leaving the bodies there for an hour. that is just unacceptable. I can't think of any reason for that to happen in a modern world.
5i mean, look at those poeple in the inset where the bodies are covered. they are sitting up, but looking away. they could be crying for all we know. If I were a rescuer, I might sit with them until someone came. the leaving them alone part was just the worst of all.
6This makes me sick. They didn't have to jump up and cause a commotion but damn if they couldn't stop what they were doing and at least acknowledge the tragedy, or picked up camp and moved.
7I thought that too yaya, but if they got up and moved would that have seemed callous as well? I'm not trying to challenge your comment, but I thought of that also. I mean, no one can say that people on that beach weren't sad. the ones who ate lunch...that was awful.
8This kind of behaviour is disrespectful.
9wow thats said. I can only think if It were me i would be crying and trying to find out why they were there for so long. But than agian not everyone reacts the same way when they see something that desurbs or upsets them. Very sad
10Sorry I mean wow thats sad..
11i just can't believe no one sat with the bodies.
12Roarman - actually in the Hartford incident, several people called 911 to report the accident and it appears that at least one of the people in the video who walked over to look at the man was on the phone with 911 at the time reporting the incident.
13It's true that we have no way of knowing how people were feeling. However, their actions do seem to indicate indifference and the ambulance drivers alluded to this. I know we're dealing with a different culture but I'm actually surprised the beach wasn't shut down.
14Well that's something I didn't think of Le Etiana. The beach ought to have been shut down, at least until the young girls were taken away.
15That is a really good point, Le E.
This is disturbing.
16Great point, Le Etiana! The ambulance drivers obviously felt that the people on the beach were indifferent and they are Italian, so....I guess they would be a pretty good judge of what their culture would consider "appropriate" for the dead.
17i would have to leave just because i'd be grossed out.
18It appears everyone has missed the point of the story.
19Care to enlighten?
20how sad for the familys of the two girls, my condolances to them.
21I second Torgleson's request, Mintie - care to share your thoughts?
22yes, do tell!
23They could have been in complete shock. Just sitting there next to the bodies of kids. I don't understand the eating as much, maybe serious shock and just needing something to do. But the sitting there, I can understand that.
24I think the point someone above was trying to make was that they were Roma, and that's why no one cared.
25Yeah, I think the point that Minnie was getting at is that the story is supposed to demonstrate the "cultural tension" between the Romas and the native Italians.
26Minnie, Mintie .. haha, sorry.
27Yes... that was indeed my point.
28Sorry to burst your bubble, Jessie, but Roma 'families' do not care about their own as well. I was in Rome, Italy last year where a Roma woman used her baby (almost a newborn) as leverage to 'beg' as a distraction for another Roma tried to mug my father. Fortunately, it was without success. However, some minutes later the same Roma lady with the baby was seen sprinting across the cobblestone at full speed. If the baby dies from the shaking, they most likely won't mourn for it.
I'm in Germany right now and experienced a similar incident at Frankfurt's hub station with a Roma woman, again, using her baby as leverage to 'beg' for money. Obviously, I feel very bad for the child but I cannot feel any sympathy for the woman. European citizens have tried very hard to integrate Roma people into their society but they simply do not want to be part of it and chose instead to stir trouble and commit crimes. Roma are taught from childhood to lie, steal, and cheat. Overtime because of the number of offenses Roma people have committed, Europeans start looking at them with indifference. It's hard to care for people who lie to you and steal from you.
29Meike: I just had a Roma family (woman with baby, her male relative/spouse playing an accordian) hop on the tube to do some begging both on the way to my desintation and they jumped on the same carriage as me on the way back! What strange luck. Anyways, it's not the first time I've seen the woman with a baby as leverge for begging trick before.
As for this story: we don't know how the sunbathers reacted to the deaths, and I don't understand why they didn't shut down that part of the beach.
30Idk, other than leaving after you've called the police, what are you supposed to do? Run around screaming and crying and wringing your hands in despair? If you dont know the people who died, then how exactly are you supposed to react. I dont know that this indicates or clearly depicts racial tension. A lot of people would probably just sit there horrified too, until they were taken away or forced to leave, how exactly can you assume that they werent affected by it?
31i know a lot of people in italy view the romas as being almost less than people - which is probably what the article is trying to convey. in fact, a german tour guide who took my high school group through italy proudly told the group how a roma boy stole his wallet on the street and he chased him down and broke his fingers - saying that would end his life of crime. he mentioned the italian police pulling him away, but they did not detain him or charge him with anything, simply let him go.
if that doesn't speak to the way the romas are treated in general, i don't know what does.
32What do you think he should be charged with? The guy just stole from him. Sheesh.
33yikes meike...i really don't keep up with oversea news, so i had no clue
34about a billion years later - but i was talking about the tour guide wasn't charged with anything for breaking the kid's fingers.
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