Beyond Obama, I'm just not going to vote for Democrats any more - I'll vote for Greens and Progessives, but to me voting for a Democrat is the same as voting for a liberal Republican or a chicken.

I feel like both parties are so far from where they started/what they are supposed to be. It's a shame.

Agreed with both of you.

I think that the bill that was passed does SO MUCH to protect things going forward. Sometimes you have to concede a lesser priority to make sure things are just going forward. IMO, we already know that the Bush administration has crossed the line so many times. I don't really see the fault resting with companies that were bullied by an aggressive adminstration.

Not to mention (and this is just my little opinion)...I know that every single call that was made by AT&T was recorded. I am assuming that the other companies had a similar set up. That would mean that every citizen could sue every telecom they used. The companies would go bankrupt or increase prices for existing customers. Telecoms are so integral to major industries, especially banking and communications. I just don't see the massive benefit for the ability to sue them.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/rospars/gGxsZF

Obama's response to his supporters...

Not all companies bowed to the 'bullying' and we'll never know how much the companies were bullied vs. how much they simply cooperated with their political allies because the cases won't go to court now. It wasn't about suing telecoms, it was about standing up for the law.
And if every citizen can sue every telecom, isn't something terribly wrong? Didn't we just the other day feel sorry for the Swedes (or blondes somewhere) for that kind of thing? We have given up so much in the past 8 years and justified it with 'oh, I have nothing to hide' or 'they know more than we do'... honestly, if this bunch had been running things during WWII, we'd be living like the Soviets now 'for our own good.'
I'm so mad I could spit bullets. How Coosa do I sound?

"I'm so mad I could spit bullets. How Coosa do I sound?"

stephley!

i knew i was headed for crazytown...

No, that was one of the best rants ever.

"we'll never know how much the companies were bullied vs. how much they simply cooperated with their political allies because the cases won't go to court now."

According to Obama, there will be an Inspector's General report that will provide accountability, and will be able to do so with out the classification issues that would be present if it went to "court" (as with the Justice Department fiasco).

He also said that the exclusivity provision makes it clear to any President or telecom company that no law supersedes the authority of the FISA court. So it puts in oversight going forward.

"And if every citizen can sue every telecom, isn't something terribly wrong?"

YES, and now there will be oversight to protect civil liberties.
I just think at some point, even when dealing with issues we are passionate about, we have to be pragmatic. We have to get things done or we just stay where we were. This is so much better than the Protect America Act, and with a "democratic majority" that depends on Lieberman, we can't get everything we want.

And for the record, I love it when you are all fired up, Stephley. Even when passionate you are respectful, and that is great. I might disagree with you moderately on this issue, but I have great respect for you.

You're very, very kind Jill, nicer than my mom who thinks my rants are why I never got to settle down with some handsome first lieutenant in my youth. Next time I feel the need to rant, maybe I'll call Feinstein's office - blast someone who deserves it!

I'm voting for Sheehan. Not because I like her but because Nancy Pelosi has turned into a huge zero.

What a great idea - that'll show the Dems what hugging the middle will get them!

There was a provision that denied retroactive immunity...and that didn't pass. That really shows us that nothing would happen if the dems pressed for immunity. They do not have enough power (aka numbers) in Congress to get what they want. Yes, it sucks, but ultimately I think there are times when reality confines your options. In a Congressional system where you have to work with vetoes and non-existent "majorities" because of Lieberman, nothing will get done if you don't work pragmatically.

There will be an Inspector General investigation, and we will find out what was done. It almost seems to me like people are sue happy (not you guys, but on other sites). What good will the ability to sue these companies do? Because that is what the argument is about, the right to sue. Not about what laws were broken, or preventing them from happening in the future, because the legislation does address that. This is about the right to sue.

I am more concerned with efficiently finding out what laws were violated, and holding the Administration responsible.

I loved the Grandma on McCain article - thanks for sharing!

Stephley, I don't think allowing corporation immunity for tapping my phones is "the middle". I think it's illegal and I don't think our government should be protecting them.

I was trying not sound less crazed by the whole thing - I'm ready to call for the death penalty for members of both parties.

apparently I can't do it: that's supposed to read "I was trying to sound less crazed.."