John McCain and Barack Obama wrote about the meaning of patriotism for Time. I took excerpts form McCain's essay "A Cause Greater Than Self" and Obama's "A Faith in Simple Dreams." Can you match the quote to the patriotic candidate?
The magazine also featured a great piece about the state of American patriotism. Check it out here. Tell me —how do you define patriotism? Good luck on the quiz!
1 of 7Question 1
Meltin Pot
Wonderbra
Mexx
6/7!
But I don't like the question of who is more "patriotic." That's such a loaded and subjective measurement, and it's not productive to debate it. The real question is, who do you think will lead the country we all love in our own ways in the direction you think best?
17/7, it tells me my score is 100% but lists me under top scorers at 57%.
Do you think they figured out that I cheated and looked them up?
27/7 WHOOP WHOOP!!!! I can't believe that, educated guesses are my strong point!!!!!!!!!!
3Nice 6/7 woot woot
4I think McCain is more patriotic because he has killed people for his country. He has drank the blood of our enemies and seen the fear in their eyes as they succumbed to death. McCain understands what it is to stare squarely into the abyss and know, in its darkest hues, the face of humanity stripped bare and seething with the need to stalk. To hunt the most dangerous game of all: Man.
That, my friends, is patriotism.
5You didn't stay up with me last night Rac. I'm mad at you.
65/7 i missed the first two
7Well, Harmony, you've been absent for so long, I just figured you stopped caring. I'm cool and everything, but I'm not some YO-YO YOU CAN JUST PICK UP WHENEVER YOU DECIDE YOU NEED AMUSEMENT ...
damn it, I promised myself I wouldn't do this.
DAMN IT!
Oh, now Jimmy's involved. Great.
8actually rac, John McCain is patriotic because he served OUR country and sacrificed himself for US. That's why.
9Alright I'll try to be more sensitive to your needs as long as you leave Jimmy OUT OF IT!
10I think Obama is more patriotic because he has killed people for his country. He has drank the blood of our enemies and seen the fear in their eyes as they succumbed to death. Obama understands what it is to stare squarely into the abyss and know, in its darkest hues, the face of humanity stripped bare and seething with the need to stalk. To hunt the most dangerous game of all: Man.
That, my friends, is patriotism.
Okay, Blondie, now it's even.
11AND I haven't been gone. I've just been busy. I don't get home til 11pm...so I usually comment after everyone else. AND what have you done with Natalie?!??! Why is she gone now?
12Oh here she is
13Don't bring Natalie into this. She's just a sexy punk rocker who's seen too much and lived too hard. This is between you and me, Harmony!
You know, HF, we all have other commitments but at the end of the day you have to ask yourself where your real priorities lie? I've lost three jobs because I've done nothing but comment on this site. If you can't give that sort of dedication to CS, then maybe you should think about who you are and what it is you want to achieve. It's time for some sacrifice.
14You haven't even cracked top five of top talker! Don't talk to me about sacrifice! You better win July Rac! You better win. For us. For Jimmy and Natalie....to restore my faith in you!
15Whoop! 7/7
16Surprised I got 5/7.
17Scoring 7/7 wasn't hard.
18I'm so tired of Obama constantly using the word "Faith." It's obvious he's playing to the bible belt and evangelicals. A good man, Christian or otherwise, could never have endorsed the rantings of Jeremiah Wright, or have contributed thousands to a church that gave an award to Louis Farrakhan, a man who espouses hatred.
I know steldog! I heard if Obama gets elected he's going to change "The United States of America" to "The United Nation of Islam" and he's going to force everyone to wear a bow tie and hand out pamphlets. And then, he's going to change the star spangled banner to "Bring The Noise" by Public Enemy. Oh, and also, no black person will ever get arrested while he's the president. You need to let people know these facts AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, Steldog! It's up to you!
19That is tacky rac.
20So is this tortured, lame, ridiculous Candidate=Church garbage argument with it's veiled racism and transparent coded hypocrisy.
21Actually, the racism in the Wright instance wasn't veiled at all.
22And, when said candidate has been a member of said church for so long, it does define them a bit.
23Obama's church is bad, McCain's church is good. Got it.
24"it does define them a bit."
As does actively seeking the support of someone like Pastor John "Katrina was God's judgment against New Orleans, and also, Catholics suck" Hagee.
Neither candidate "endorsed" the rantings of their respective controversial religious figures. Both candidates repudiated the remarks made by said religious figures. Obama is no longer a member of Wright's church, and McCain has distanced himself from Hagee. Let's move on to more substantive issues that aren't, as Rac pointed out, tortured, lame, and full of veiled racism.
25Anyway, all the fearmongering has gotten me confused. Are we supposed to be afraid of Obama because he might be an angry black Christian who agrees with Wright's most out-there stances, or a terrorist black Muslim in line with Louis Farrakhan? Christianity and Islam are monotheistic faiths; he surely can't be both. I wish the fearmongers would get their stories straight.
26Me too, Jude. I am afraid of Obama, but I don't know if I am afraid for the right reasons!
27
28I won't excuse McCain's solicitation of Hagee's enorsement. I'd have to investigate what comments were made and at what time, first.
However, I *do* believe that attending a church for 20 years implies endorsement of the minister's theology. I believe that easily distinguishes the two cases.
Also, over the years, I have noticed that emotional responses, particularly aggressive ones, frequently indicate a lack of objective supporting evidence. And an emotional discussion rarely leads to a good resolution.
Just sayin'.... (:hides:)
29hoo-boy.
30Where is Jill? I MISS JILL!
31I find that funny, Lain. Yet for Obama you seem to have so many facts at your fingertips.
As long as we're being objective, being a member of a church doesn't mean you subscribe the personal beliefs of its minister, does it? If that were true, would every Catholic who attended the sermon of the pedophiles make them pedophiles by association? According to your argument, it does.
32Personal beliefs, kept personal, are irrelevant.
Wright's beliefs aren't "personal".
They are also not mainstream.
I freely admit where I am lacking information, and when I lack time for research. Appearances to the contrary, I have an off-line life.
33I want to say something about the idea that attending a particular church implies lockstep agreement with all the clergyman's beliefs and sermons:
The synagogue I work for is a Chabad House, which means that it is a Jewish synagogue led by an ultra-Orthodox Chassidic rabbi but dedicated to outreach to Jews of all levels of observance and practice. This means that while the rabbi preaches the most orthodox doctrines and sticks to the most orthodox theological views (as well as how they apply to politics and everyday life), by definition many of the synagogue members do not subscribe completely to his teachings and views. They aren't blind followers of their rabbi's sermons; that isn't why they're there.
In fact, I've heard quite a few very heated disagreements between the rabbi and the most prominent members of the synagogue on theological and political issues, indicating that, again, even the most prominent members of the synagogue don't subscribe blindly to the rabbi's point of view. This also indicates that even strong disagreement with the rabbi's point of view doesn't compel them to leave the synagogue.
In my experience, most people attend any kind of church or religious service much less out of agreement with a clergyman or church's doctrines, and much more for other reasons. The two most common ones, I think, are that they may be believers in their religion in general, and their particular church happens to be most convenient for them, or they may simply want to preserve their religions traditions and continuity for themselves and their children. Or some of the teachings may work for them, canceling out the ones that don't. It's not as simple as blindly following the clergyman or choosing a church whose clergyman espouses all of one's own beliefs. There's a lot of pick-and-choose, and the priest, rabbi, or minister doesn't always speak for his congregants, even the most loyal ones.
Ugh. I'm tired today; I wish this had come out shorter and clear. But that's what I wanted to say.
34*shorter and clearer
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