Competing trends in faith — evangelism and atheism — are creating a water and oil slick at US military academies. Nine midshipmen at the Naval Academy (not my favorite midshipman) recently petitioned the ACLU to have them require the school to abolish daily prayer at the attendance-mandatory lunches, a move based on a similar case at the Virginia Military Institute.
One recent West Point graduate said the common emphasis on religion leads some to feel like "God" is a prerequisite for "General some day." He says:
Nowhere does it say that you have to be a good Christian officer or Jewish officer or Muslim officer: You need to be an officer dedicated to the Constitution of the United States. They tell us as an officer you have to put everything aside, all your personal stuff. But religion is the one thing they encourage you to wear on your sleeve.
The head chaplain at West Point says:
No one is pushing them to believe. [Prayer] is something we have done in the military for centuries. It is not designed to make people religious. The majority of people here are people of faith, and a prayer asks God’s blessing on a gathering and on the food.
With commanding officers feeling free to express faith in speeches and lessons — of which one law professor says, “you always have to be aware of the authority you have within your rank and uniform and the coercive potential of that authority,” — and the emphasis on group cohesion and belonging, should religion feature in service education? Can cadets and midshipmen feel free to practice faith (or not) despite the practices of authority figures and peers?
Lacoste
Hanii Y
Paul Smith
I don't think there should mandatory religious anything in any of the military academies, it can suggest to cadets that espousing a certain faith is the only way to success. Hasn't the Air Force Academy had a lot of issues with evangelical officers being accused of crossing the line in recent years?
1Well as far as the meal prayer I'm sure a happy compromise can be struck. Allow those who do not wish to pray to simply sit there for a minute without praying and when the amen is handed down eat. If they can handle bullets flying within an inch of their lives they can handle a little polite down time.
As for the infusion of religion in class lecture I really can't comment on that until I know the extent and the context.
2Steph I agree that religion shouldn't be mandatory, but many units have a small prayer before going on missions, a lot of people like those and are superstitious about them... could we go with majority rule there?
3All should be allowed to express their beliefs - or not- regardless of authority.
4Also its true that the military is steeped in tradition, part of which are blessings like the Chaplin mentioned. Many people, I would even venture to say most, in the military like the heavy emphasis on tradition, why tear that down?
5I think the military is the one state institution I want people to be deeply religious.
6If they don't believe in anything, isn't it just like reciting song lyrics?
7I dont see the issue. If you are offended just don't participate.
8"If they can handle bullets flying within an inch of their lives they can handle a little polite down time."
I agree. I think that people praying around them isn't forcing them to pray. However, I think that if a superior crosses the line an punishes them for personal beliefs, that should be looked into. Ultimately, I think that little details of personal preference shouldn't be allowed to cloud the big picture of what everyone is there for. Work as a team, accomplish very important tasks.
9The poll is pretty evenly split! I love when that happens!
10Jillness, i was going to pull out Hypno's comment too. perfect!
11I agree with you Bettyesque.
However, I think that they should be able to leave and not be present for the prayer if they don't want to be. Prayer should always be optional.
12This is also why I have always been for silent prayer. Everyone can do their own blessing in their own way. If you don't want to then think about the last time you were with you girlfriend or something, but not too much we don't want to give it away.
13My husband is a West Point grad and we never felt pressure to be "religious." It is much more about tradition then actual religion. Prayer is definitely optional in that they don't have to believe it, but they do have to stand there and listen to it.
14I've never heard of it as an issue at West Point either, but unless you've been under a rock we all should have heard about it at the Air Force Academy in Colorado. They did a special on Dateline and 60min too if I'm not mistaken.
15I just don't get it. If you don't believe in anything, you aren't losing anything. I understand if you believe something totally different that praying to a different God would be offensive, but if you don't believe there is any God, then you are just saying words, or listening to someone else say them. I am with hypno, think about your girlfriend or sports or your next test. Geez. Why should everyone have to change for a few? Ugh, entitlement is such a huge problem in this country.
16separation of church and state.
it's right there. why is it so hard for people to do this? you have the right to believe in whatever you want, but there is ABSOLUTELY NO PLACE for religious dogma of ANY kind in our government function. none. religion =/= morality.
and sommelier, it's not just like reciting song lyrics. it's akin to making false statements about your beliefs and lying to those around you. it's denying yourself and deceiving others, and no one should be forced to do that. i'm agnostic and i work with government-related groups and at nearly every meeting there are prayers before starting or eating--it's uncomfortable. i bow my head to maintain appearances, but deep down i feel that it's also unacceptable to pray "in Jesus' name" at an event involving government and defense participation.
which is why i think it shouldn't be happening at all. if anything, i think it should be a moment of silent reflection.
17I bow my head to maintain appearances, but deep down i feel that it's also unacceptable to pray "in Jesus' name" at an event involving government and defense participation.
I want to thank you for respecting those who do want to observe a moment of prayer. Just because you observed that moment, though, it doesn't make you a participant.
18I'm with UnDave, here. The truth is, if everyone's head is bowed and their eyes are closed in prayer, no one is going to notice you NOT participating anyway. I've always been confused about why this is such an issue for people... I've been on both sides, as an agnostic and a Catholic, and I don't get offended either way.
19Expression of religion, or adherence to any particular religion, should neither be mandatory nor banned. Period.
20"Just because you observed that moment, though, it doesn't make you a participant."
21The only way you're not a participant is if you talk through the moment.
No one's saying other people can't worship, just don't in any way require participation. Religious practice, including prayer, should be kept private.
So observing a moment of silence means you are praying?
22It means you are participating in something that is meant to facilitate prayer - it is not benign. You can't choose to not participate and talk business instead.
23I'm just trying to understand what you're saying. If a group wants to say a prayer, but a person doesn't want to participate, they can't just sit there quietly? They have to talk to show that they aren't participating?
24If he has to stay with the group, yes he is forced to participate unless the silent group separates from the not participating group, especially someplace like the academies. To not participate, they would have to be allowed to carry on, whatever that is.
25If he has to stay with the group, yes he is forced to participate unless the silent group separates from the not participating group, especially someplace like the academies. To not participate, they would have to be allowed to carry on, whatever that is.
26Agreed with stephley. Mandatory attendance at a prayer or other religious function implies participation.
27Wow, you feel so strongly to post twice.
Just kidding
28I have to admit that I don't spend a whole lot of time with agnostics and atheists, so I don't understand the whole aversion to a moment of prayer.
29For me it wouldn't be about having an aversion specifically to prayer, but to having to participate in a religious function in which I don't believe simply because it is required.
30I'm a Catholic and study Buddhism, and I have no aversion to prayer or moments of silence. But I don't believe in inflicting my faith on other people and I understand how it can make them feel uncomfortable or worse.
31Know what?
32I really like this avatar.
Your avatar, stephley? I adore it.
33It's sooo immature - but every time I click and it pops up I get a little thrill. Excellent taste Jude!
34steph, a moment of silence can be used to go over your grocery list. And I like your av because it looks like he is speaking through the speech bubble.
35
Great avatar GS!!
36Thank you, thank you!
37You're welcome. I'm off to my softball game. Have a good evening everyone!
GTR
38Yes a moment of silence can be held over your grocery list, but I am not likely to be offended or upset if someone talks through it or gets up and leaves while I reflect on my groceries. But the nature of the daily prayer is clear so if you simply replace it with a moment of silence you aren't necessarily handling the problem.
Perhaps if the academies instituted some kind of non-denominational moment of reflection and preparation every morning that would be acceptable to everyone. But even then, someone would probably say they were being forced to be too ninja-like.
39Why should the overwhelming majority change for the minority?
40who, might I add, are admitedly absent of any kind of belief system. So absolutely not harm is done to them. And I meant, they could go over their groceries while the people who take prayer very seriously pray.
41"Why should the overwhelming majority change for the minority?"
In my mind the question isn't about "changing for the minority." It's simply about not expecting or obliging the minority to have to follow, or pretend to follow, the majority's observance. About not obliging those who don't share the majority's belief system to have to behave as if they do.
Like I said, observance of any religion should not be banned, but neither should it be mandatory. That's all.
42There is separation of church & state and the military academies are under the government's wing so more than changing the majority for the minority, it would be bringing the majority into line with the basic rules of this country. And the U.S. is all about the individual over the group or has been from the beginning - that's why there is a bill of rights, protecting the rights of the individual against the tyranny of the group.
43"the U.S. is all about the individual over the group or has been from the beginning - that's why there is a bill of rights, protecting the rights of the individual against the tyranny of the group"
Nicely put, stephley.
44or... the Academy could just drop the whole required presence at all or certain meal(s) policy
it would a) make a non-issue of the prayer AND b) save a shoot-ton of money (b/c the food at king hall sucks and a number of them don't eat it and it gets thrown out. I can't blame them though. do you want to be forced to eat prison grade food? didn't think so.)
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