In minnesota? Don't they know they're yankees?

I thought the same thing, Syako!

Citizen, I understand what you are saying about the history in a way, but on the other side of things, the student described what the history of the flag means to him.

I understand that the flag brings up a lot of feelings for many people, so displaying it is not the most sensitive thing to do, especially in the North.

To many people in the South, the Confederacy is a very important part of their history, and the flag does not always indicate racism, just a strong sense of their Southern heritage.

Ok so maybe I'll stir the pot just a little (I can't resist).

If we can make sweeping generalizations about the confederate flag ala "The Confederate flag is a symbol of, in some cases, hatred, bigotry and it has the potential to create a very disruptive environment"

Then how is that different from saying the "Keffiyeh, in some cases, is a symbol of sympathy for or support of terrorists or terrorism" (that quote is straight from Wikipedia)

I just want to know your thoughts on that.

news flash: the south lost! and i'm glad because if they hadn't i'd still be a slave. it is a symbol of hatred and i don't care how you justify it. and if anything in this country were unamerican, it would be that damn flag!

The keffiyeh has never been carried at the head of an army that fought the government of the United States; it is traditional clothing and not something that was intentionally used to be the symbol of a cause.
Substitute nazi symbolism - I've heard kids claim it's just rebellion and not meant to endorse genocide.
The kids are either stupid, if they actually are unaware that the flag could give offense, or lying.
That said, I think the punishment is extreme - unless this isn't their first offense (and I can see punishing them because of the whole Dukes of Hazard thing - nip that nonsense in the bud right away.)

I agree 100% Sy and Tiff! I've always been much more forgiving of that flag flying in the South, but in the North? Nope.

Has anyone seen the movie The Confderate States of America? Its a mockumentary about American "history" as if the South had won. Its made to look like a History Channel special, complete with commercials!

Its a very interesting watch if you haven't seen it!

I'm the same way, Cab. Plus, since I've lived in Pennsylvania I've seen that flag SO MUCH more than I ever did in the South. I always get a feeling that the people in PA that display it have a much different meaning than those who displayed it in the South.

mockumentary? is that similar to what Michael Moore makes?

Are yall serious?

What is up with the yankees?

Yea I get that feeling too Tiff. I never really saw it when I lived in the North, then when I came down South I was horrified when I saw so many of them! Then I started to learn more and I got used to them being around... but when I go up North and I see it, it def. does not have the same meaning as here.

And Sy I agree, if one symbol can only mean one thing, then other symbols must only mean one thing too.

I grew up in the North and don't recall seeing the Confederate flag very much. When I moved to the South I saw it everywhere. I think it does have different meanings in the North and South. Of course I also think people hold onto the past too much. When I first moved to the South I was shocked at how many people were still mad at the Yankees for the war and they hated any of us moving to their territory.

well beside from my confederate flag bikini, I personally do not have/hang/fly a confederate flag as I find it in poor taste.

did you guys all move to like Podunk southern towns?

I agree with Sy and Cab as well - symbols can have multiple meanings. People read too much into things without getting more information first.

Tiff58, very good points. True, the students' explanations of what the flag means to them are personal--and the flag does have historic implications that heated, though don't always include racism for some--I was really just struck by how modern an interpretation of the flag they had. Though one did mention the rebellion of the Confederacy, the use of the symbol seemed to stop short of the traditional understanding of its legacy? That's what stood out to me, rather than a right/wrong judgment.

People make assumptions and jump to conclusions too much.

thats so strange because i always look back at that period of history and think of the north as rebelling against power and money (and the fact that slavery contributed to both of these things for many rich and powerful people). slavery was the status quo and the flag represented the side of the argument that wanted to keep things the way they were. these kids are deluded. it doesn't matter what they think it means, it's just like stephley said - you can't just decide a swastika or a noose or a burning cross mean something different and not expect people to be offended. sorry kids, but this is a stupid way to represent your individualism. what happened to the good old days when you could just get your nose pierced or wear a leather jacket and people would know you were an 'outsider'??

HAHAH! Every summer, EVERY summer there is some trashy looking chick at the beach in a confederate flag bikini! I always tease my husband that I'm going to get one!

yeah my whole point with the keffiyeh thing is this - I would never wear a keffiyeh and I would never hang a confederate flag - simply because whether the symbolism to most is in good or poor taste, I don't want to appear to be in support of the negative symbolism at all. So it's easier for me to just not have anything to do with either (and that goes for nazi paraphernalia too, steph)

cab - it's even worse here in south la. because we have PURPLE and GOLD confederate flag stuff for the LSU tigers (though the university has made it quite clear that they in no way endorse those products).

oh, and my brother and i used to LOVE to watch the dukes of hazzard when we were kids... i didn't even understand what the flag meant until 4th or 5th grade. i remember being surprised when a friend in high school told me she'd never seen the show because her parents wouldn't let her watch it due to the symbolism of the "general lee" car.

I'm from a small town in PA, and seeing a Confederate flag makes me nervous. There are a lot of racial feelings, especially in small towns. I realize that there is history in it, but that's not what I feel when I see it. Moreover, the swastika is actually a symbol from Aryan Hindus that the Nazis used. Its a religious symbol, but many Hindus no longer use simply because through its common use, its meaning has changed. To me, the flag is the same thing. While it may have originally been a symbol of rebellion from the Union, as the years go by IMO it represents racism more and more.

That principal could be old enough to remember 'whites only' drinking signs in the grand old south, black entrances, sitting on the back of the bus... and that's not mentioning all the residual violence in the years since then. The confederate flag is not a benign symbol - its a symbol of a Southern heritage that required the enslavement of a race of people to be 'glorious.'

purple and gold? eek. i bet the school just loved that!

since i've moved south and renounced my yankee roots, i have taken a liking to calling it "the war of northern agression" or "the recent unpleasantness"

yeah they still have a lot of problems with it. Oh redneck boys.

So because of misuse of a symbol the meaning changes but not in a way that is easily or readily known to all people, or even accepted by all people. But we should still criticize all people for it, even if their use of the symbol may not be for a negative reason?

I'm just trying to understand, I'm not trying to stir anything up.

Where I live is deemed the birthplace of the confederacy. I see the confederate flag almost every day and it does bother me some. I understand that now many people think of it as something that shows pride for the south and southern free spirit but I feel like you can never really change something like that. If someone wanted to use a swastika as the cross that it really is people would still associate it with the Nazis.

I don't think the kids should have been punished quite like they were, but the confederate flag isn't that innocent.

We don't really know though. When confronted those kids could have been little asses about it.

Yeah, I had never even heard the war called "the war of Northern agression until I moved to the South". I couldn't even believe when people called me a Yankee. It was so funny to know that they still had those feelings toward "Yankees".

of course we do tiff, yall yankees are so different!

I'm marrying a Southerner and we'll hopefully raise our children (when we have them) in the South...do I get points for that?

of course tiff, you can be an honorary southerner!

"We don't really know though. When confronted those kids could have been little asses about it."

That is a very good point fufu, and I would take more of an issue with that than with the flag.

Great! Maybe I'll start saying y'all now!

I've only typed y'all, never said it.

is that weird??

Nope, I type y'all a lot, and it has only slipped out once.

Hmmm...First off, I think that their punishment was too harsh. You only have one high school graduation and it's not fair that they didn't get to walk. It's not like they pulled a huge senior prank that costs the school thousands of dollars. Secondly, I'm assuming that they've been displaying Confederate flags on their trucks for awhile. I think I got my license in 10th grade, meaning, they've probably had Confederate flags on their trucks for at least a year. Why punish them now? Plus, is that really an issue that school should have taken on? It's one thing if they had it on their shirts and what not...but the school shouldn't really dictate what bumper stickers and other stuff you have on your car.

I don't really agree with showing the Confederate flag, I think that it's meaning has changed over the years, but I'm sure that many people who see it still interpret it as blatant racism. Like the kids in the story, I know that their are racist undertones when displaying the Confederate flag, but I think more of country music, rebellion, and that type of life style than the historical significance.

The "recent unpleasantness"? That sounds just like something my grandmother would say! Now I have her voice in my head.

life is so much easier when you can just say "yall"

if you want an even better word... here in New Orleans when asking about how people are doing you say:

how's your mom and them?

That's the best. I'll never stop saying that.

Brittanyk you make some very good points. Especially about the school dictating what's on the students cars vs. what they're wearing to school.

ok time for me to shower and start the day... I wish I could hang out with you all more...

Have a good day everyone!!

Ha! That's a good one, too.

The one that really gets me is "fixin' to"...I'm fixin' to go to the store.

kim

yeah, we've got all kinds of fun things to say. Isn't a great to be an honorary southerner?

do people there say "do you want to get down" when they ask you if you want to get out of the car?

True we are only hearing the kids' sides of the story. The could have gone in their and said "screw you! we'll carry the flag if we want!" and obviously they wouldn't have told the press that.

I'm happy and surprised to see that the sugar community, North and South, Red and Blue seem to be agreeing with each other on this issue. I live in the North and I always thought that if nothing else, the confederate flag is very unpatriotic. How could you claim to love America if you wave the flag of a rebellion that wanted to leave the USA and start there own country?

As a person of color, I kinda always get a little anxious when I see some one with that flag simply because I don't know what their stance is. If I had been in school with these boys, I would have been uncomfortable but they still should be allowed to attend graduation. You only graduate from high school once.

I can see both sides of this. I think the boys probably really do see the flag that way. It's certainly not as if we teach history particularly well in the public school system these days. At the same time, I think the principal is right that regardless of what they feel the symbol represents, it's a pretty common interpretation to see it differently and that doesn't really have any place in a school.

Sy - in Hawaii we would say "How's your mom them?" I love linguistics. Fascinating!

Nope, Sy, I've never heard that one. But, one guy that I used to work with in Memphis that was really country used to say "carry" to say that he drove someone somewhere. "I have to carry my mom to the doctor."

Oh, yeah, and it IS great to be an honorary Southerner.