Not quite sure why him leaving now makes a difference. I mean he has been apart of the church for 20 years and held Wright at high regard for some time, so why leave now? He should have left a long time ago, so to me, this says nothing but a political move. Oh wait, I forgot, Obama is above political games.

gosh cine, why are you always trying to stir the pot?

I agree though, perfect timing huh? I can't believe that none of this was heard/talked about/discussed in the 20 years prior. Yeah they do community service, blah blah, rah rah, but so do most churches and a lot of churches don't spew hate. I love that he's waiting to find another church until November, how convenient.

btw, we're all waiting to hear the list of crucial issues that we're "allowed" to discuss...

I'm taking a page from the other team and whining: why does Obama get a full post but McCain-Hagee-Pastor only get small blurbs? Seeking the support of haters is somehow less wrong than remaining in a church that has a long history of doing good despite the rhetoric of one of its leaders? (CAB TAKE NOTE: supporting good work while condemning inappropriate reasoning? Can you do that?)
It'd be nice if this does put the issue to rest, but I doubt the press and the repubs will stop holding Obama to a higher standard than McCain.

Dang,

Oh that's right sy, this is not a crucial issue. I was with my die hard democratic friend this weekend, and I could not believe for the first time ever we agreed on something. That we both don't want Obama to be a president, and he is full of fluff. She said she might actually vote for McCain, and if she does not vote for McCain then she will not be voting (assuming of course that Obama is the Democratic nominee). I was shocked!

I'll give you a list of issues when I get a factual rebuttal of McClellan that I requested Friday - I even pitched a couple of starter defenses.

The reason why Wright is a bigger issue is because he had close ties with Obama. He baptized his children, the name of his book was from Wright, he was his spiritual advisor... and so on. This was not the case for McCain.

the other team whining?

cine it's like talking to a wall.

That does not work Steph because the Libs are the ones who keep saying that Wright is a non-issue, and we need to stick to the "crucial issues". So I feel we Conservatives have the right to know what we are allowed to discuss according to the Libs.

We need a emoticon that beats their head against a wall or talks to a wall.

they keep saying wright is a non issue, but HAGEE is an issue. so school us, please...

since sunday is the most segregated day of the week, there are probably tons of things at different churches that you would be surprised to hear. jeremiah wright's comments might be shocking to white people but that's because you've never had generations of hatred pushed at you simply because of your skin. there was no other reason for it. and that starts to weigh on you after a while. and telling people to get over it because it's the past is like telling soldiers who suffer from pts disorder to get over it without being able to talk about it and process it. a lot of processing takes place in black churches. i'm sad he had to leave his church but what was shown was probably a very small part of all the things that take place in that congregation and i doubt every sermon was as far out there as the sound bites we've seen on tv. if you really want to understand try visiting a black church and seeing for yourself. i dare you!

I think if he truly had a problem with what his pastor was preaching, he would have left long ago.

I prefer churches where all are welcome, so I will have to turn down your dare.

oh come on. I hate this reverse racism B.S. You tell me I can't understand because the color of MY SKIN??!? How is that not racism? It's not like I can change the fact that I was born a white woman.

lol what, no double dog dare?

I agree that if he had issues with Wright's comments he would have left a long time ago. But then again his main reason for leaving is to protect the other members of the church.

His leaving this church and distancing himself from the pastor should have nothing to do with his running for the presidency. It should have everything to do with humanity.

Altthough I'm sure his leaving was politically motivated, I'm glad he left. He will be forever connected to it, but the other members of the church don't need to be thurst into the limelight or have their congregation questioned because of a member running for president. I saw a couple news reports that claimed the new pastor was recieving threats and that members have grown suspicious of new faces, looking around to see if anybody is taping sermons. That those who used to tape sermons for confined worshipers have stopped due to scrutiny. That's sad. They aren't running for president. They don't deserve that.

I don't think this will close the door on the issue, but hopefully it takes focus off the church for a couple months at least.

Obama's church has a history of good works that include early outreach to gays and caring for people with Aids - and whatever Wright said, it does not have a history of radical, anti-American, behavior consistent with people being stirred up by fiery preacher.
As a Catholic, I cannot agree that if you sit in the church you agree with the speaker - I don't agree with turning a blind eye to sexual abuse, I don't believe that gays are sinful, I don't agree that government sponsored killing is acceptable and I don't agree that women are a source of sin.
But seeking out haters suggests you'll turn a blind eye to what they do in order to get their votes, or if you claim you didn't know what they were saying, makes me wonder how carefully you'll vet members of your administration.

Deal with Hagee and Paster as issues then, just as Wright and Trinity still are being dealt with no matter what libs say.
McCain sought them out so either he was okay with what they were saying or he didn't know and if he didn't know, what kind of leadership is that?

Good god, y'all, does anybody really believe that Obama hemself believes all this stupid hateful rhetoric that Wright puts out there. Come on.
What's wrong with these idiot priests and pastors who can't control their big mouths. They are too ego driven to see the damage they are doing to Obama, to race relations, to their own church.

BTW If any conservatives want to keep Wright as a relevant issue, that's fine. Whatever the American people want to discuss is a relevant issue. Didn't McCain say something like that when asked if his age was an issue? But understand that if anything you want to discuss is an issue than if us liberals want to discuss is also relevant even if it is about Mac's age, temper or contorversal pastors whose endorsements he's sought. Fair is fair after all.

We've been asking for you guys to give us a list of "issues" for a while now. What is fair? Tell us, we'll play.

No one can prove that Obama believes this racist baloney of Wright.
But it is a fact that McCain is old.
Good point. His age is relevant.

I'm sick of all the pastor comments and quite frankly, I think Obama should be allowed to whatever he feels is best.

Pastor disaster.

"I cannot agree that if you sit in the church you agree with the speaker - I don't agree with turning a blind eye to sexual abuse, I don't believe that gays are sinful, I don't agree that government sponsored killing is acceptable and I don't agree that women are a source of sin."

I would highly suggest switching churches. I too am Catholic who attends church every week, and have since I was born. Not ONCE was I told to turn a blind eye to sexual abuse, homosexuality has never been discussed during sermons or religious teachings, only that to love thy neighbor, death penalty has not been discussed, but I have met with priests and nuns that go and speak with people on death row and have met a number of them that are against the death penalty. And never in my life, have I ever been told or taught that I am the source of sin, unless you are speaking of the story of Eve, in which case yes I was told having the pain of birth is for eating the forbidden fruit, but that did nothing to my psyche. Now if you are being told something different then I highly suggest leaving your church and finding another. I lived in Los Angeles so I can recommend some great churches if you like.

I was still in college when 9/11 happened and in the days that followed, I was sitting in a poli sci class when the white professor said that the US was due because we hadn't had an attack on our soil for decades but have committed atrocities in other areas of the world. He then went on to list sins he thought the US was guilty of commiting across the world in recent history. No one in his class, of any race (though it was mostly white), dropped the class, even though add/drop was still taking place. No one complained to this man's supervisor. We didn't even talk about it much afterward and when we did, I don't remember anyone being outraged. I think that's why the Wright stuff doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I'd heard that before.

I think it's sad and unfair that he had to leave a church he had such a long association with because of politics. Preachers are just like anybody else - they're human. They may have a higher calling and should certainly be held to higher standards, but they have to struggle with personality failings just like any other man or woman out there. That's not to excuse the things that Wright has said (or Hagee, for that matter), but they should be the only ones held accountable for their statements. If I was associated in such a way with every person around me or any of the people I deal with on a daily basis, heaven help me.

Maybe it was not announced from the pulpit in the L A church, but I think they paid out over 700 million to sexual abuse victimes.
Just saying.

The issue is it was more then just a simple association with Wright. They had a close relationship.

Sy, Do you mean issues like the war, abortion, the economy, who we want to be appoint to the supreme court, poverty, gun rights, gay rights, woman's rights, race issues and education? Because those are the issues I based my choice on. That's what's important to me. Not how old is this guy or who is that guy's pastor or who is her husband.

cine, I too am Catholic and go to church every week, and I know I'm just trying to speculate on what stephley was saying about turning a "blind eye", but maybe she was just saying that a lot of Catholic churches have made a mess of certain sexual abuse scandals (I don't know how it is where you live but in Chicago a lot of priests were just "redistributed" once a scandal broke, which IMO was totally wrong). Also, like you mentioned, I have never been told outright at a mass that homosexuality is wrong, but I'd be lying if I said that my Catholic school teachers were totally cool with the idea of homosexuality (long story). I don't know...religion is such a personal thing to me and while there are things I have a hard time with regarding the Catholic church, I think I can still be a good Catholic while struggling to understand certain things about the church.

Also, the whole thing with Fr. Phleger (think that's how you spell it...the guy who came out with anti-Hilary remarks) was redonkulous. Anyone who has followed him on the news knows that while he does some great things he's still a total publicity wh*re. Ugh.

I never said wrong doings did not happen in the Catholic church, I am saying you are not taught to turn a blind eye to sexual abuse. And I guarantee if a Priest stood there and spoke for an hour about allowing such horrible, disgusting abuses to occur, my family would have gotten up and walked out never to return.

I think both pastor issues should be dropped. in the Wright case, I think you can know someone for a long time and then be surprised by something that they suddenly say or do. Also, we all have long-time friends who we disagree with on certain issues, but we choose not to end the friendship with them when the good outweighs the bad. I have some dear old friends and relatives here in TX who can be pretty backwards in their ways of thinking. But I still love and accept them. If I was running for president however, and they were endorsing me, I'd have to take my leave. In this case, it matters very much! Now Obama has to take his leave. I don't consider it an arrogant or duplicitous move on his part. It's just the smart thing for him to do.

In the case of Hagee and McCain, I just don't think McCain did his homework on the guy. I think he probably thought he was getting the endorsement of a Joyce Meyer or a Joel Osteen, and instead he got someone crazy.

I think all of this is a bunch of BS! When I judge someone's capability to be president, I am throwing out any notions of where they went to church, what their marriages were like, and any emotional or personal issues. There are just too many shades of gray there for me to judge someone. Now on the topics of national defense, education, the economy, etc, I will judge freely! (ie, where it actually matters).

Amen, cine.

And Sy, I've raised a black child from the age of three months - the longest stretch of time I've been away from her in 12-years was about 13 hours. As well as I know her, because she is black and I am white, she has had and will continue to have, experiences that I cannot fully understand.

Em, I too have issues with some of the Catholic church, no religion is going to be perfect. And if Wright was just a pastor in passing of the church, then it would not bother me. The fact is, he was HIS spiritual advisor and had enough impact on his life to have the name of his book inspired by Wright. That says a lot to me. I personally do not feel he should have left his church, because I agree, a persons spirituality is a personal choice. I do however think that Wright should somewhat be a consideration and a reflection on Obama.

cine, I totally understand what you're saying--yes, we are not told/taught to turn a blind eye to sexual abuse--but the fact that it has happened in the Catholic church does a lot of damage, IMO, and I hate that because a lot of people who don't understand/know about Catholicism believe that the church will turn a blind eye to abuse. It's the whole "actions speaking louder than words" thing--I know there are so many facets to these types of scandals, but it's pretty ridiculous how some of those scandals were handled. Again, you're right, we're not taught to ignore things like that, but it also doesn't help when the people who have the power to end certain situations don't do everything they can to make sure those things never happen again.

I really don't give a crap about either Hagee or Wright. I really don't think they're an issue, and I cannot believe they have gotten this much attention.

It's funny that people are accusing him of some sneaky political move with the timing. He said flat-out, he's leaving because now that he's running for president, he's being attached to anything anyone in the church says. There wasn't pressure for him to leave over the past 20 years because he wasn't a high-profile figure. You don't see people calling for the other John Smiths and Sarah Joneses to leave the church. Since they're regular people, they're allowed to go to something, listen to what the speaker says, and then decide how much they agree with it without any scandal. When I was in school, I sat through a class where the professor said being gay was a sickness. I didn't drop the class and quit school, but I probably would have if I was famous and people started saying that my staying was implicitly endorsing those views.

lets step back a moment and think about what obama really did. he's in a precarious position here. NOT dropping out of the church immediately when all of this broke was probably the least political thing he could have done. he said he didn't agree with wright's opinions, but did not distance himself from the other parishioners of the church. to me this was him saying "wright is wrong, but he does NOT represent all of the people of the church - including me". if he'd just walked away then he would have been saying "those people all believe that crazy talk and i'm outta here". waiting to leave at this moment, when the press and others are literally harassing the parishioners on a daily basis, that makes sense to me. he's seeing that his campaign is damaging the religious practices of everyday folks who belong to this church. i think the stuff wright said was way too out there for most americans to handle and if obama had known about it, and was as much of a politcal player as some here suggest, he would have distanced himself a loooong time ago.

obama has approached this situation like most others he's been faced with since starting his campaign: with critical thought and reason. i don't agree with wright, but i can see how this would be a very complicated issue if i were in obama's shoes.

On sexual abuse Cine, like it or not, they led by example. And if you say they didn't, you've completely undermined any argument you have against Rev. Wright. If Catholics can sit for decades knowing this is going on and not being handled, and not go out and duplicate that behavior, Obama can listen to Wright.

One last note, I have been to one black church, several times, and I had the best freaking time of my life. I was the only white person there, but there was one in the choir so I figured it was all good. I have never had so much fun. Incidentally, the pastor's wife is a dear friend of mine. I'll bet her husband has some strong opinions... maybe not hateful like Wright's, but I honestly don't expect this man to have said ONLY positive things about white people during his entire life. And you know, I don't really care. Things are they way they are. When I visit their home, he is distant but kind to me, I babysit his kids, and their mom loves me like a sister. Could he one day say something that would make me never want to go back? Quite possibly. I don't think you can fix race relations in one single swoop and completely change the mind of a person, of a particular generation. I think the positive thing is my relationship with his wife, and his young children. His children may see me as the Miss Kris the crazy white lady, but they love me and will grow up with a better relationship with white people.

I'm not saying that Wright is justified in being a crazy racist, I just think he's one man, a separate entity from his associates. It's right to assume that some of his associates think the way he does, but we can also assume that some may have changes of heart and leave his association. Further than that, I don't really give a rat's a$$.

The Catholics who knew it was going on, which I already know you and I disagree on the numbers, then they are just as wrong as Obama was for using Wright as his spiritual advisor. He did liken the man to his grandmother. To me that is a very close relationship.

And to be clear, I have never, and never will excuse what some of the people in the Catholic church did. It is not a reflection of Catholics or Catholicism, just like I don't believe Wright is a reflection of his church as a whole.

"jeremiah wright's comments might be shocking to white people but that's because you've never had generations of hatred pushed at you simply because of your skin". Hate is hate, no matter what color the person is who is spewing it. You can't be upset about being judged and/or persecuted based on the color of your skin and then turn around and do it yourself.

As for the Reverend Wright thing becoming such a huge issue, it isn't for me. Those kinds of things do not sway me when electing a president. I ignored this just as I ignored the McCain/Hagee matter. What our president believes spiritually or how or who he worships shouldn't matter as church and State should be separated.

You want issues:

*Social Security- McCain is for privatization, which when Bush brought up the idea it didn't even have enough support in congress to get put up to a vote. When McCain makes his stance clear, he will loose support of the senior vote.

*Gas Tax Holiday- What ever happened to his support for the Gas Tax Holiday? Does he usually champion policies that he believes in by walking away from them?

Healthcare- If McCain's plan is to "restore choice", why are their only 2 options for your health insurance tax credit-1. Send it straight to insurance companies 2. Send remaining tax credit money to a Health Savings Account. ???? That seems to limit choice of what to do with your own tax credit, IMO.

From his site:
"every family will also have the option of receiving a direct refundable tax credit - effectively cash - of $2,500 for individuals and $5,000 for families to offset the cost of insurance. Families will be able to choose the insurance provider that suits them best and the money would be sent directly to the insurance provider. Those obtaining innovative insurance that costs less than the credit can deposit the remainder in expanded Health Savings Accounts.

Cine, I can see why you have your opinion about Obama's connection to Wright. I totally understand it and respect it. I feel a little less strongly about it, but I feel ya.

Kris, it is no way would be my deciding factor on whether or not to vote for Obama. I do however feel it is an issue of importance. Although I feel like we are all beating a dead horse now. We will never change each others minds on this topic.