A mentally ill man who shot three people at a music festival in the Pacific Northwest last week had obtained his weapon with a valid concealed weapon permit. A bullet from his Glock 19 handgun hit three victims last Saturday while Grainger was fighting another man. The bullet passed through a man's nose, another's wrist, finally ending up in a woman's leg.
22-year-old Clinton C. Grainger suffers from anxiety and schizophrenia and has been receiving treatment for a meth addiction since he was 18. Grainger's issues did show up as disqualifying conditions when he applied for a gun permit in January 2007. A mental illness diagnosis alone is not enough to restrict a citizen's right to bear arms under Washington state and US federal law.
To find out what federal law is regarding mental illness and gun permits, read more.
Federal law requires that an individual be involuntarily committed to a mental institution, found not guilty by insanity, or deemed by a judge as a "mental defective" and a danger to himself or others, before second amendment rights are restricted. Nevertheless, it appears that if background checks were more sophisticated, at least Grainger's narcotic addiction would have prevented him from obtaining the permit. Yet, as with the shooting tragedy at Virginia Tech, crucial disqualifying information located in different systems were not properly shared.
Are nominal and negligent background checks to blame for victims' injuries? Should we make it harder for those with a mental health diagnosis to obtain a gun? Considering that many Americans are treated for anxiety and depression, what mental illness should cause a citizen to lose the right to bear arms?
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It's ridiculous that 3-year olds and nuns can be stopped from getting on planes, but every nut in this country seems to be able to get a gun. We should make it impossible, not just more difficult. A person's right to come home alive from a music festival or school or a car ride in California should trump anyone's right to have a gun.
1guns kill people rah rah rah
people kill people rah rah rah
Ok, are we done yet?
We seemed to have done this before.
2well it seems to me that the topic gets discussed frequently, but no one ever seems to intitiate a solution, at least that I have heard of. If one problem we KNOW of is that various key databases don't "speak" to each other, that would be a place to start. If it is not possible to make these systems link together, then is it possible that applying for a gun permit would lead the permit giver to have to check all of these databases? I don't even know what they are, but the article indicated that there are several systems that don't link together but would provide crucial information about the individual.
3its so weird that in order to get a driver's license you have to take a class, but to get a gun you just have to apply for a permit. both can be used as a lethal weapon and require education.
4That's a good point yy. Shouldn't gun holders be required to renew their license, and prove their proficiency every few years? We have to with a driver's license.
5Holy cow YY, I am sure I am much more staunch on the second amendment, but I AGREE that we should have a required class in order to own a gun, but probably not for the the same reasons. The classes would not keep the bad people from acquiring a gun, nothing will, but the classes would make the responsible owners more proficient at shooting and owning a gun. This will reduce accidents and if a mad man is on a shooting spree a person will be able to take the guy/gal out much easier, and less likely to harm a innocent person.
One agreement and one sort of a agreement. Two for two. We might have set a record this week. I doubt it will last, or ever happen again, so I will enjoy this moment of peace... Well at least until you come back and tell me I am wrong and try to rip my post apart.
6"its so weird that in order to get a driver's license you have to take a class, but to get a gun you just have to apply for a permit. both can be used as a lethal weapon and require education."
Yup. I've always thought that, and it makes absolutely no sense. What's also sad is that it probably doesn't take that much more effort to share information and to do better background checks. I could be wrong, but better background checks should be implemented if it's a matter of life and death (and clearly, it has been).
7don't you have to take a class in some places? my friends here in tx who have handgun permits seem to have had to do something, like at least learn how to shoot. I've heard them talking about it, but I don't want a gun so I never paid much attention.
8Kris, I'll bet it depends on the state...I just checked mine and there is nothing about taking classes.
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/#?st=IL
9I don't know Kris, maybe. I took a gun safety class when I was 12, then again when I was 14 and 15. I received my a bunch of documents, and a hunting license (though I have never been hunting) so maybe here in New York you do. I don't own a gun, so I have no idea what the laws are here. I do plan on taking another gun safety class in the next year or so, since I plan on buying a gun soon.
10Here in WI, you have to take a class to get your license initially, but once you have the license, you don't ever have to renew it.
11How about if NO ONE was able to get a gun? Hmmmmmmmm ... sorry, couldn't resist.
12i am a uniter AND a divider.
13I didn't have to take a class to get my driver's license.
I just had to apply. I
did have to take a test though, and that seems like a valid requirement for a gun permit as well. I don't know what that would have accomplished in this specific case, though.
How do we make it impossible to get a gun? Would that work like how we've made it impossible to get drugs?
It's already illegal to shoot random people at a music festival. Not sure how making it illegal to have the gun you use to shoot random people at a music festival would be more
effective...
14Big, that one has been tested and it did NOT lower crime rates. In fact it increased it. People will get guns no matter what, and all that does is leave criminal with guns and no one to defend themselves. Just like "Gun Free Zones" don't work.
Not too mention I don't want the government the only ones with guns, so there is that whole aspect to it.
Not sure if you were kidding or not, but I figured I would respond.
15"It's already illegal to shoot random people at a music festival. Not sure how making it illegal to have the gun you use to shoot random people at a music festival would be more effective..."
This made me smile. I love it!
I think the class is in reference to drivers ed and the driving test you have to take. At least that is what I thought. I think something like that could work.
16Wow, really Jennifer? I've never heard of that! (Referring to not having to take a class to get your license). Here I had to take a class, take a test, and *then* I got my license. Interesting...
17I think that's what it was in reference to, also, cine. But I never took a drivers ed class. I wasn't required to in either state I've had a driving permit/license in.
I think it might be a good idea to require a class as well. In fact, I think there is one required here in NC.
18Really, em! I've had a permit in Hawaii and both a permit and a license in Oregon and have never taken any sort of driver education. I just read the book, drove around with my parents and boyfriend and took my test for my license.
19How old were you when you got ur license, I know in some states older people (18+) don't need a class, but at 15 you need it to get your permit, 2 courses actually, one is 6wks I think and the other is 2.
20I think when you have a highly publicized "gun free" zone you also have a highly publicized "protection free" zone. If I wanted to rob someone where am I likely to go? The place where people have weapons or the place where I know they don't.
21I know in New York if you are under 18 you are required to take drivers Ed. Over 18 you don't have to, but must pass the driving test. Same as in Washington state. But after you take your driving test you never have to take it again unless you allow it to expire.
22Drivers ed is not required in all states. If you don't take it you do have to have more driving hours on your permit before you take your test to get your liceense though.
23Well, huh. Maybe I'm just a
I just looked up the requirements for Oregon and
they do require a "traffic safety education course" now. They didn't when I was getting mine. And, at the time, you had to have your permit for a certain amount of time - can't remember what
now - but you didn't have to keep track of hours.
24"How do we make it impossible to get a gun? Would that work like how we've made it impossible to get drugs?"
Ha ha jennifer, I love it.
I used to be somewhat irrationally just anti-gun. Buuuut, then I moved in with a Libertarian who has like 15 research books on guns with studies of how banning handguns in cities actually increases crime blah blah.
The right answer is not banning all guns. The right answer also isn't that every single person has a right to own a gun. It would seem that better background checks, classes etc. would be a happy medium.
I think the problem here is that it's such a polarizing issue neither side wants to be seen as ceding ground.
25Well first of all Federal/State information sharing system needs to be implemented. This is in the works as a result of the formation of the Dept. of Homeland Security and I'm once its set up there it will trickle down to other departments.
In my opinion given the sanctity of life, the capability of a bullet and the uncertainty of depression not person with diagnosed with mental issues should be allowed to bare arms.
What happened to a good old fashioned knife fight? No one has knife skills anymore. When I was a kid I could toss a piece of toast in the air and have it buttered on both sides before it hit the plate.
26Hypono I like you better every post!
27Hypno, my father talks about the knife fights they used to have when he was a kid. They used to have gang fights and guns were banned. You could only bring certain weapons. That was why they wore leather jackets in the gangs, so it was harder to cut with a knife.
28well, i found out at lunch that in tx you don't have to have a permit to own a gun, but you have to have a permit to carry one. in that case, yes you do have to take classes on how to shoot before you can get your permit.
29What happened to a good old fashioned knife fight? No one has knife skills anymore. When I was a kid I could toss a piece of toast in the air and have it buttered on both sides before it hit the plate.
This hilarious paragraph requires a 
smiley.
30well then, Kris, my dear, you had a productive lunch.
31i did have a good lunch, but I ate like a hog and now I'm guilty. I had three cupcakes. THREE! ugh. (it was a goodbye lunch for some coworkers)
32What kind of cupcakes?
33Holy Cow! I actually was on a trip to Seattle and AT Folklife with friends that day! I had no idea that that happened. . .craaazy.
34devil's food cupcakes with cream cheese icing! it was the icing that got me. it sort of addles my brain, causing me to be inclined to eat it and whatever it might be on. even slightly dry cupcakes.
35it also happens that someone left the half used container of icing on the platter with the cupcakes, and that directly below that was a drawer full of plastic knives. knife + icing container = SIN.
36I have found a trick to citizen and it making me fat. I now carry an extra piece of fruit with me to work and when sweets get brought up, I eat the fruit. Mmmmm.... Cupcakes
37CUPCAKES!!!!
38I think if anyone has a problem with this article (i.e. they're pro-guns, they're pro-killing, they're pro-letting mentally ill people have guns), then they shouldn't bash citizensugar for posting this article. It's still news, so if you think this has been "done" before, then get over it and just ignore the post. Instead, of writing "rah, rah, rah" and being condescending to the other members.
Mentally ill people shouldn't be allowed to carry guns. Especially schizophrenics who need to be baby-sat because they often refuse to take their medication. Anybody allowed to own or carry a gun should NOT be on anti-psychotics or suffering from a disease that causes them to self-harm and possibly harm others.
39I'm a bit late to the this conversation (my CitizenSugar time was rudely interruped by my honeymoon!), but we all know I need to throw in my 2 cents on anything gun related. You do not need a permit of any kind to own or carry a gun; however, if you carry a gun without a concealed weapons permit it cannot be concealed in which case you will be arrested and charged with brandishing. The FBI is so incredibly screwed up on how background checks go and sharing information...I have so many really messed up stories on that. And, Washington is a right to carry state.
I dunno, my first thought when I heard this story was being surprised that anyone at Folklife was the type to have a gun in the first place! It's always struck me as the mellow hippy festival.
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