I do. It's one of the main reasons I also feel Obama is going to lose the generals. No offense to Obama supporters here, but talking to them is like talking into a bullhorn. It's a one way dialogue with no one listening. Now, I'm a democrat, I can't imagine how a swing voter is going to feel.

McCain has said that he wants to change the GOP platform to include allowing abortions in certain cases. The piece quotes Gingrich saying the GOP is a pro-life party with a pro-choice wing. Is that true? Right?

It's a very sad world we live in. If they don't like McCain, that's fine and dandy. The aggressive tactics will turn more people off than they will get. We could argue about the valdity of Roe V Wade, but that really isn't the issue here. It's about the messanger, and not the message.

I'm limited pro choice. With all the people waiting to adopt children, I can't see the need for an abortion (except in the cases of rape, incest, etc...) I would like to see teens who get pregnant have to carry the baby full term. Maybe that would help them think about the consequences of their actions. Oh wait, we don't want our teens to have to think about consequences...

I totally agree with colleenb. I think it's very important to protect a woman's right to choose; and I don't believe we need to do that by imitating the very worst tactics used against us in the past. Demonizing everyone who disagrees with you, no matter how important you believe your cause to be, creates bitter divides and presses people to take harder positions than they might otherwise. I wouldn't vote for McCain for many reasons and I am very concerned about another hard-core rightwinger on the Supreme Court.

I'm all out pro choice and I have to agree with some of the points that Planned Parenthood made.

I think this kind of rhetoric from Planned Parenthood is nothing but guilt based politics. This is a very "you're either with us or against us" mentality that turns a lot of people off...

Honestly they make it seem like if you are a woman who is pro-life that you should be ashamed of yourself. Even just the usage of "women's health"... so if I'm pro-life, I'm anti-women's health?

I don't think pro-choice or pro-life really has much to do with women's health.

this is such an important issue and frankly, one of the main reasons i'll never be a republican. why do they complain about the government controlling everything and yet they are OK with the government getting in between doctors and patients when dealing with a medical procedure? why would we take a step backwards with regard to women's reproductive rights? can someone please give me an example of when we've taken an entire segment of the population's rights AWAY after they've had them for 30+ years??? the religious beliefs of one group of people should have ZERO bearing on the rights women have on the issue of abortion... or any issue, for that matter.

HOW ON EARTH can anyone not realize that as soon as you outlaw abortion teenage girls are going to be dying from illegal procedures and/or going to mexico to have abortions just like they did in the 60s? i support planned parenthood's mission and methods 100% in this situation. it's crucial and someone has to be fighting for it.

nuts would rather live on the streets, pay 1000.00 per gallon for gas,send their families to war to get hurt RATHER than know that somebody they don't know had an abortion

wrngco: well put.

"this is such an important issue and frankly, one of the main reasons i'll never be a republican."

Yesteryear I completely agree. The thing is you can't put a label on the millions of reasons that people do things. It's easy to say that it should only be allowed if it's incest, rape, etc. Every situation is completely different. I do NOT think that teenagers should be forced to carry to term. If you want them to be punished an abortion is enough. It's not like they are enjoyable. It's one of the worst things a woman ever has to go through. It's incredibly painful, emotionally heartbreaking, and psychologically f*cked up. That's why it gets me mad when people say that pro-choicers are pro-abortion. Nobody likes it. Nobody looks forward to it. BUT the alternative of not having the option would be much worse. Women would take matters into their own hands.

This is just one of those issues where people feel really strongly no matter what side they're on.

You can be a Republican and be pro choice

That is true bluemango, but historically it is more of a democratic platform.

BUT here is a link to a pro-choice Republican site:

http://www.republicansforchoice.com/

harmonyfrance, I am in total agreement.

I think however, that is this partly what turns people off of Planned Parenthood. It sometimes can come across that they are offering abortion as the ONLY solution, the BEST solution to an unplanned or unwanted pregnancy. Abortion is a solution, and it is one that should be readily available, but it is not the only or best solution in every case. I feel as if sometimes Planned Parenthood's techniques in delivering their message makes people feel as if they are touting abortion as an easy, perfect solution, when that is not the case at all. Planned Parenthood wants to have abortion as one of a woman's options, but the way they deliver their message sometimes obscures the message itself.

And on the idea of pregnancy being way to make teenagers think about the consequence so their actions, I think that that is frankly just ridiculous. Most of the people I know who have chosen abortion were using birth control, in a committed relationship. They are good responsible people who were choosing to express their love for another person through sex. And even if they were just having fun, sex is in no way a crime, and should not be treated as such.

i dont think planned parenthood tries to present abortion as the only option... after all, a larger share of their work is in providing contraception and examinations to women than it is in providing abortions. their stance on abortion is what gets the most attention - and rightly so. if someone tried to take away a woman's right to contraception, they'd be going public with that fight as well.

I agree that sex isn't a crime, but ending a life is. I'm sorry that we argue vehemently about the death penalty, but then say death by abortion is ok "because it's the women's right to choose." That is incredibly hypocritical.

Those people who decide that they want "to express their love for another person through sex" need to be sure they are ready for the consequences of their actions, whether they are in a committed relationship, or just having fun (both men and women).

TheCatie - I agree with you.

I personally am completely against abortion as a choice for me, I would not, however, want to take that choice away from anyone else. (I'm registered republican by the way). I don't like the idea of the government getting involved in what a person can or can't do with their bodies. I do, however, think that late term abortions and "partial birth" abortions should be illegal - there comes a point that even scientifically it's not just an embryo anymore, and even in the science world, a human fetus is a "developing human" and really aren't we all, developing humans?

Harmonyfrance I agree with almost all that you said concerning abortion and the physical and psychological affects it has on a woman, with one small exception (correction?)... "It's one of the worst things a woman ever has to go through." I would change the word "has" to "chooses" Obviously by your post though it's clear that you believe it's a choice and not something that should be forced on a woman (if I read your post correctly that is).

I do think it's sad that so many people put too much emphasis on party choice (dems vs repubs), rather than on the individual. We tend to stereotype people on so many factors - political party being one of them... it's a shame really.

I like that change kimpossible. Chooses is a better word.

I'm pro-choice for the most Republican reason ever... it lowers crime. Who gets abortions? Young, unwed women who are typically poor. Who commits crime? People from single/young-parent, lower-income backgrounds (insert Freakonomics plug here). Before anyone piddles their pants, I'm obviously speaking in generalizations.

I agree that abortion should be safe and legal, and widely available.

Anyone who has the guts to go through with killing an unborn child shouldn't be having children, even ones that could be adoptable. I can't imagine they'd take care of the health of the child in utero if they didn't want it.

I don't buy that abortion is a right. It's obviously a "choice" though, right?

I have a stance on abortion that infuriates most liberals and conservatives at the same time. (Wheee!)

To me, it's all about practicality. I don't want a bunch of unwanted children who aren't taken care of, and I don't want mothers dying from sh*tty abortion jobs.

But I also don't want people championing it as something that's okay, because it really isn't.

And like the others, I don't like it couched as "women's health". There are other components of women's health, and to couch it in those terms is kind of clouding what we're really talking about.

pop...that is highly offensive. I completely respect your point of view, but there is a way to talk about it without referring to women who've had abortions as monsters. I know you didn't say that word, but still. Until you walk a mile in someone else's shoes I don't think you can assume that not one woman that has ever had an abortion is qualified to be a mother.

pop: so once someone has an abortion they no longer have the right to have a child going forward? that's a bizarre statement. following this logic, what about women who have given their child up for adoption? does "having the guts" to give away your child to a complete stranger also render you unable to properly raise a child?

I can't help but think that for many women, going through with the pregnancy would help change their minds about having a baby. There is something about feeling a baby grow inside of you, move inside of you, knowing that you are responsible for nurturing that life during this time that can help change a woman's mind about wanting the baby. I realize that wouldn't work for all, but I think it works for many, so no, I disagree with this:

"Anyone who has the guts to go through with killing an unborn child shouldn't be having children, even ones that could be adoptable. I can't imagine they'd take care of the health of the child in utero if they didn't want it".

foxie: i think that freakonomics argument is provocative, but it is too broad and i don't believe the authors of that book were intending to portray it in the same fashion you have here. there are plenty of women who are educated, financially stable, and maybe even in a LTR, who are getting abortions. you go a bit further down that road and you're getting back to the discussions we've thankfully moved away from in this country about white/rich/educated women having less babies and how it's ruining our country. that's a slippery slope - careful.

and I personally think it takes more courage to have a baby or put a baby up for adoption than it does to abort one. Not to say that those who choose abortion are cowardly, not at all. That's a very difficult thing to do. I just think the other choices help build character, but again, it's not always the best choice for everyone.

Here's an interesting twist. Shouldn't I, as the other parent, have a say in the matter as well? Since it takes two to create, shouldn't it also take both parents to end the life?

I should have been clearer, apparently.

Women who have abortions aren't monsters (which, as you pointed out, isn't something I said ANYWAY). But, to go through with that, you ARE disqualifying yourself as a mother for one reason or another, just by virtue of that act.

That doesn't mean you aren't EVER qualified to be a mother. I didn't state that. It's just AT THAT TIME, you shouldn't be a mother, right? I mean, by getting an abortion, that is what you are saying. You are saying, I shouldn't/can't/don't want to be a mother to that child.

So does that make someone a horrible person? No. But it also means, to me, that you certainly made the right decision.

I'm having a hard time getting this out. I can't state it succinctly. It's just like, abortions are not an easy thing. And if you're willing to do it, you are making the right choice by doing it.

Ugh, that wasn't any better.

But whatever. I don't care. Like I said, it offends people on both sides.

yes, I do think that the father should have a say, if he's willing to raise that child, possibly on his own, absolutely I do think the father should have a say in the matter. Ultimately, however, it's the mother's choice.

dave: of course the father should have some say in the matter - if he's even around to ask. but in the end it's the woman who is carrying the child... so if there was a stalemate between the two my personal opinion is that the woman would have the final say.

Christ people: "so once someone has an abortion they no longer have the right to have a child going forward"

I never said that! I'm all for discussion here, but do NOT put words into my mouth.

pop....I understand what you meant now! Sorry about the confusion. I agree that if a woman is having an abortion she is not fit to be a mother AT THAT TIME. This is an issue I feel extremely passionate about so I'm sorry if I jumped the gun.

(I broke my emoticon fast just for you!)

YY, so that means that the man's opinion is not as important in this issue?

ok I'm not YY but I'm answering you anyway UnDave lol... I think the father's opinion is just as important, but the father's can't carry the children in utero can they? (well except for that one guy in Europe, but he used to be a woman and still has his uterus)... Just because his opinion is just as important as the woman's doesn't mean it's more important than the woman's, equal opinions, it's just it's her body that has to go through the pregnancy, if the father could carry the child I'm sure he would. Not saying it wouldn't be difficult for both parties, which by the way is something that PP should address as well, particularly when "educating" women about their choice to abort. I think the father's input should be considered.

have to agree with kimpossible.
while the father's input is important, in the end, the baby is being carried by the mother, in her body

For the post at hand, I think that private organizations have their own political iniatives and send/call/post things like this all the time. Don't vote for this person, vote for this person, write your representative to vote yes/no on this bill, yadda yadda. So it makes sense that Planned Parenthood would do a letter writing campaign for something that frankly threatens their livelihood and definitely the principles they were built on.

As for the other...not pro life or pro choice, I'm pro minding my own f*cking business and I wish more would jump on my bandwagon.

I agree it's being carried by her, but it's his baby too. If he's willing to take care of it, why should she have the right to kill it? That just doesn't make sense.

sorry laundry emergency over here. yes, kim and bluemango are right - that's what i meant. the woman has the final say. a woman can carry a child, but that does not mean that she is simply a host for a baby. if she has a choice, it's hers to make.

UnDave, I agree with you that it doesn't make sense, but some things just don't. Besides to me it wouldn't make sense to force a woman to go through a pregnancy that she doesn't want to. It's the whole "possession is 9/10ths of the law" thing... her body, her choice.

oh and by the way I like to think that if the couple can really sit down and discuss this lovingly and civilly that the woman would take the father's opinion to heart and seriously consider his position. I also think that the father would really need to be able to prove that he'd be willing to truly father this child and not just be making a political statement.

I agree about the father would need to show that he is truly interested in being the sole provider for the child. I disagree with the whole "possession is 9/10ths" though. It may be her body, but it is his child. This isn't a possession to be had, it's a life to be celebrated. I'll give up on this argument, however, because the gist I am clearly getting from everyone here is that the man's opinion isn't an issue.

UnDave from your av I'm guessing you're a dad so you're passionate about this subject, but I'm sorry of course the woman is going to be the final say here. Someone has to have the final say, you can't reach a compromise or King Solomon a fetus away. Is the father's opinion valid and important? Yeah! But if you look at the opposite side of the coin, what if the woman really wanted to keep the baby and the man really wanted the termination? Should his opinion be the deciding matter there? It's both his and her baby, but it's housed in her uterus. In an ideal situation, they would have an upfront mature discussion, make a pro/con list, sleep on it, and reach a mutual decision, but if the situation was that ideal I doubt there would be the abortion issue in the first place. So yeah, it's her call at the end of the day, and maybe it's not always the woman wanting to terminate, maybe it's the man pushing for it and she's not the bad guy. Maybe?

Excellent post annebreal.

I'm a republican and I'm pro-choice. THanks for the link Harmony! I have to say I agree with YY. I am totally in the mind set of gov't should not rule the people! And I have thought of what YY said many times. However, I understand their issue of it being of a MORAL issue. Still even so, I don't agree with it. I think if it's ever to be made illegal, many teenagers will die. I've said before on one of these threads, that we need to put more effort, focus engery into preventing pregnancy rather than trying stop the result. Lets, go the the beginning, the root of the problem.

I also don't think we have to much to worry about MCCain being pro-life. I'm certainly not the only (R) pro-choice. Also, McCain were to do anything, what he wants is to take it out of federal courts and make it a state issue. I agree that might still be scary, but it's not the "end of abortion".

Sorry I tried to go back and copy and paste YY's quote but my computer is from HELL and does screwy things. I think it was in her first comment.

I also only read to 14 so if something I said was already said or disapproved already. Well, forgive please. Now I'll go back and read everything! *sigh*

LOL, thecatie, I love those glasses!

that was supposed to be "focus AND energy".

Kudos for the whole Sugar community for a good discussion here... and staying so civil on such a hard topic. As a teacher I see so many beautiful children who are not actively parented by their parents, and it is infuriating that those adults put that burden on the public school system and at the same time say no person should ever have an abortion. (I don't mean just busy parents, every one gets busy, I mean crimially neglectful parents.)
I think the thing that worries me most about many politicians is they have such a refusal to allow children to have anything other than abstinence only educations. No method of birth control has a higher failure rate than abstinence! It just doesn't work for so many kids.
I think we can all agree abortions are devestating for all involved. At times, I think they may be the right choice. And especially new studies are showing that intense maternal stress leads to a less healthy baby. I think many moms (yes they are moms, happy mother's day to them) choose abortion knowing it will break their hearts, because think at the time it is the right thing to do because they are not confident in their ability to raise a child. I think we should all spend less time focused on berating these women in an impossible situation, and more time working on a comprehensive plan to teach people how to avoid unwanted pregnancies in the first place.

*we should spend less time berating... we = politicians

Ok, I'm at 27! I have to say few things then go back, read more. LOL, Pop, as someone who sticks her foot in her mouth OFTEN and says things wrong, I feel your pain. You did make a good point.

oh crud KimP and Harmony I know I wanted to say something! I can only remember I agreed with you. duh,

UD, yeah, I agree you have a point. What if the father wants to keep the baby. I hope the two of them can work it out etc. I don't think they should be made illegal though for that. (I don't think you were giving that as a reason to either.)

" I think we should all spend less time focused on berating these women in an impossible situation, and more time working on a comprehensive plan to teach people how to avoid unwanted pregnancies in the first place."

Yes, that exactly what I think.

voice whispers Harmony... Harmony...you want to use emoticons...you want to use emoticons....