Phew. I make the cut. The old should die over the young. And EVERY old person I know would say the same exact thing. If a doctor had to make a choice, them or a 25 year old, they would say to treat the 25 year old.

It makes me uncomfortable, but I understand why a list like this is necessary. I'd say they're making reasonable suggestions.

It makes me uncomfortable too, like what do they know that we don't know?

But after what's happened recently when things hit and we run around like chickens with our heads cut off (i.e. Blanco and Nagin during Katrina) I'd say being prepared is a positive thing.

wow this is really a scenario of "survival of the fittest" - and under such extreme circumstances, I would have to agree with these cuts. However, in general day to day life, NO WAY.

that's not a whole lotta people they cut out there

I'm uncomfortable by the list too but under DIRE and SEVERE circumstances it has to be done. I really hate to say it but it's true.

The only problem I have with a list like this is that it wouldn't look good for someone like Stephen Hawkings, and he'd probably be a whole lot more help to humanity in a crisis than I would.

Liss as the baby boomers age, it will be a lot of people... and the diabetes part? thats a TON of people...

Doesn't that go hand in hand with the fatism discussion?

All I know is if something happens, you can kiss my butt good-bye. I agree if it comes to this, it's better to be prepared and have a plan...

Sy, it does make me wonder. I do have a friend who works in government who keeps begging me not to take the subways. She says that is where everyone thinks will get hit next with some sort of virus. Unfortunately I don't really have much of a choice, but she hates that I have to take the subway.

You're right Stephley. But in a crisis, people aren't going to worry about what knowledge a person might have. They are going to worry about wether that person can help create food (by hunting or gathering) and povide for a common defense.

I think when they say poorly controlled diabetes they are referring to something like kidney failure. Not the general diabetes population.

And if they can procreate.

Oh yeah. I forgot the most important part

I hope so cuz thats a lot of people who would be let go!

You know who gets innoculated first in disasters? Dr.s, nurses, and MILITARY!!!

BOO YA! So my hubby is safe, but I wonder if they would let me go! noooooo!

You know what my fiance said to me? "I want you to die before me"

I could not believe he said that. WHen I asked why, he said "So you don't have to feel the sad when I die"

I told him I would get over it, and not to worry.

Awwww Cine.

Liberty, it's not really a "godlike list". It's just a way to prioritize. You can save more people if you back-burner the cases that are probably lost already (critical trauma). The whole point is to preserve society as much as possible, which means the most productive, and those with the most potential to be productive (children).

I'd probably pass at first glance, until you get to know me.

I thought it was funny Shop! I constantly make fun of him for it now.

awww. LOL

This reminds me of a scary sci-fi movie or something. Like Logan's Run. It makes logical sense...but yeah...it makes me very uncomfortable.

haha! I love that Cine! He's so considerate, thinking of your feelings like that...

My husband tells me that if I go before him then he is going to take the insurance money, buy a 60ft boat to live on and just drink all day and buy luxury watches...

Hey at least he didn't mention any new ladies!

I'd like them to further explain their definition of "severe mental impairment."

Does that include people afflicted with mental health issues? Of what variety? What measure of severity indicates inclusion as part of the no-help list?

Duck I was thinking the same thing!

Esp. with autism on the rise... Does that qualify?

What about the people who are drug addicted but you can't tell by looking at them?

How are we going to have time to go through everyone's medical files before deciding whether they live or die?

I should have said severe autism, not just autism in general...

Well the list is certainly no different than what ER Dr.s are faced with on a daily basis in crowded ER's around the country. In a demand greater than supply moment they have to chose who has the greater chance at survival.

Good point, hypnoticmix!

Very True Hypno! But still very sad and unfortunate...

True hyypno, I guess we're just talking about triage on a large scale...

So scary...

I'm not bothered that a list exists. I'm worried about a bureaucracy taking this list and mis-using it.

Yeah he did not get as far to do after I would die, just that he wants me to go first.

No, definitely not a pleasant reality

Hypno is right, this happens all the time at accident scenes, etc. Often the police on the scene are the first to offer care and triage.

Cabaker - I am pretty sure if you live on post, you get the care because of the shut down drills they have, so the rest of us just suffer I guess

So the mental impairment clause would probably mean new elections after the pandemic.

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEETTT!!! Im safe!!

See ya suckers!!

jk!jk!

Yeah, I think that ER doctors utilize triage whenever there is a situation that requires treating masses of patients that require care at the same time.

Good point Racci. There isn't a political leader out there who doesn't ahve some sort of mental impairment...

why wait for a pandemic?? these people should be left to die now. would lower taxes for all of us.

Actually, the article doesn't define what kind of emergency would require doctors to start following the recommendations - would this have kicked in during the first days after Katrina?

Considering how Homeland Security has handled the terror watch list, I'd recommend taking this list away from them right now.

I'm completely comfortable with this list.

I don't think so Stephley, considering the article talks about a pandemic. Global warming on the other hand....

But the article doesn't really elaborate on that and they do talk about the list giving hospitals a guiding starting point. SARS didn't create a need for a list like this to be used -
I really don't think it's a great idea to be publishing or distributing the list it until details like when to use it and some of the ethical questions the list brings up are dealt with.
If a pandemic strikes before the issues are ironed out, we'll all just have to deal the way humanity has up until now. Again, considering that 3-year olds and nuns have been stopped at airports because of the terror watch list, I'm not sure I trust our authorities with a list like this.

I thought the first line pretty much summed it up: "If a Deadly and Global Pandemic hits,..."

so it's like a government DNR. interesting. how old is john mccain?

Ok Dave, if the standard is deadly and global, why rush to distribute the list? It's only happened in movies so far.

My cousin would not make the cut. She has lupus, which attacked her kidneys. That led to kidney failure. She takes dialysis three times a week. Just the thought of her being considered expendable saddens me.

That's a good question, Stephley. I understand the need to have a list, but I don't see anything good about letting others know about the list. I can see people at parties going "Oh, I can't go out with you, you're not on the list."

well. this is another adaptation of social darwinism. old people will die soon anyway, those with diseases wouldnt strengthen the gene pool. yes, i know we love those close to us, its part of human nature to protect our pack; but even deeper roots lead to survival of the species.

think about it. if you had to throw a baby off a cliff or an old woman, what would you do? the baby would be able to grow up and have a life and continue the human race. the old woman has 10 - 20 years left...you know?

its not that doctors have no emotions or dont care about people; most doctors (my parents included) obviously care about people and making them better. but in a huge panic causing pandemic, continuation of the human race prevails.

a lot of doctors need to have at least some detachment from their jobs...can you imagine being in the ICU for children...youd try so hard to make this kid make it; but no...the parent outlives the kid...thats rough. really rough. it almost happened, my brother had severe food poisoning and for awhile, i almost didnt have a little brother...but can you imagine having a doctor that was so involved in our family story and how sad it was that they could not properly perform their job?

i dont think it was necessary to worry the masses and make this list and hypothetical situation public; but its almost something unwritten that can be seen as common sense.