Yes it needs fixing! And we don't need an evangelical Christian to fix it. In fact, if he would just step aside that would helpful, thank you very much.

and futhermore, if nuts like Ann Coulter would step back too, that would help. The Republican party is so maligned by extremes.

God I hate Ann Coulter.

Is it bad that I read the 3rd option and thought, He's got a first book?!

I suppose I should wait and hear what his vision is before I decide I hate it. But I can't imagine that it's very um, secular.

Good morning Cupcake!

Don't call me cupcake! Thats sexual harrassmet!

Good morning Kris! Your mountains are looking mountaintastic today!

Cabaker. We do need fixing but we don't need Huck or Coultier.

thanks Cabaker!

I can't wait to see my mountains again! just a few more weeks!

Yeah that is just what the Conservatives need, more evangelical Christians to make it seem like we are a religious cult rather then a credible Political Philosophy

Sing it Barry, SING IT LOUD!

Hey, have you guys read Andrew Sullivan's The Conservative Soul? I found it wildly interesting. He says something like, "rescuing conservatism means rejecting fundamentalist supremacy." Do you think the religious or Evangelical right are wrecking the reputation of the Republican party?

Oh, and I love how he (Sullivan) says, "all conservatism begins with loss." That you have to know the value of something so you can fight to protect it.

And I know, Sullivan's backed Obama...but the book is good!

it sounds great Citizen! I will check it out. thanks!

Well from a party point of view, I think it's a bad thing that the party isn't unified. Also, as a voter I would find it confusing to hear all these different ideas/versions about where the party stands , which might put me off since I wouldn't be sure which version of the party I'd end up getting if they were in power.

That being said, I find it refreshing that politicans are coming out and saying what they really want to say. Debate and differing points of view are always good things.

I think both parties have their crazies (hello, cindy sheehan anyone?)

good morning everyone!!

Good morning Sy!

MOrning Sy!

Citizen have you read "Conscience of the Conservative" yet? I think you need to!

And yes I feel that the religious right is ruining the Conservative party, not that I don't think that they should vote Republican, because they should vote as they please, but they are NOT true Conservatives. And really it is not their fault they are viewed as Conservatives, it is the media who put the spin on the religious right. It really really irritates me, because they are two completely different philosophies.

I will vouch for that little literary gem Cine is talking about. It's a great addition to anyone's historical library.

I just suggested it to someone this morning!

You're so, so right cine. Not to re-type Sullivan's whole book, but he makes a big distinction saying conservative≠repubican and fundamentalism≠conservatism. I wish mymellowman was awake and around to give us more goods on the meaning of conservatism, (not that you can't, I'm just baiting him ) but given the emphasis on the religious/evangelical (flashy or shocking?) part of the Republican party, the label of "conservative" is much closer to a lot of peoples' views nowadays.

And conservatives can hop party lines! I'm sure some of y'all will disagree, but Sullivan says Bill Clinton pursued policies of fiscal conservatism, and that backing a moderate liberal is not a betrayal of conservatism.

Two p.s.es- I can't believe I figured out the ≠ sign, and remind me someday to tell you how the difference between Republicans and Democrats was explained to me when I was little

I like Sullivan - and I like when people try to broach this subject... I do think the party has been fractured for so long, and making internal compromises, that I don't trust the candidates not to stray from their campaign persona.

The party having so many facets is my biggest obstacle in supporting McCain - he's had to go right for the nomination, and I lost a lot of respect for my senator when he went back on things he'd said/done and made up with the religious right of the party. I liked him more honest. Also, a lot of truly conservative friends of mine were disappointed in the Bush they voted for in 00 and what he became, completely turned into another form (in their opinions).

Ultimately, the needs of the conservative who wants less fed govt and less spending, aren't being met by the rest of the party who wants to get bigger and spend more on their interests. We've lost the part of the debate as if the govt should get involved and really only fight between us what the govt should do...

Citizen I have saying that Conservatives are not just Republicans for forever! There are so many types of Conservatives that you can't say Conservative = Republican, because it is simply untrue. This is why I call myself a Conservative and not a Republican. The Republican party has moved so far away from classical Conservatism, that I can't call myself a Republican anymore.

And really I think there are so many more young Liberals because they don't teach what Classical conservatism is in schools. I mean most people have never heard of Barry Goldwater. They have this theory that we are money grubbing, corporate ass kissing people, who want the government ruled by the Church. You can read comments like that all the time on this site. People have no clue what we are about, because we are completely ignored in the Public school system curriculum. Grrrrr.....I can go on this topic forever!

P.S. I would never in a million years vote for Clinton. I despise the man. All he is is an illusion.

I would never vote for Huck and disagree with him so much on policy, BUT...

I think he would be really interesting to have a cup of coffee with and pick his brain. He is pretty sassy and there is something about him that really entertains me.

Meg, you rock. I like all your posts!

"I think he would be really interesting to have a cup of coffee with and pick his brain. He is pretty sassy and there is something about him that really entertains me."

This is exactly how I feel about Obama. I would really love to sit down and discuss the Constitution. I think he might even be impressed with my knowledge on the topic

cine we're all impressed by your knowledge on the topic

Wow Citizen, I could barely read your whole comment because all I could think was, How the heck did she figure out how to do that sign??

I do like that Sullivan quote about loss though!

I love the idea of the core conservative agenda; spend what you have, smaller government and less taxes, but when they start legislating abortions, homosexuality and letting corporations destroy what little regulations we citizens have left, they lose me.

Citizen, was the difference between parties explained to you like it was to me? "Democrats screw their mistresses; Republicans screw the country." I have since overcome that gross generalization. Besides, it's obsolete; they both do both!

The problem is less a schism in the Republican party than a loss of what it means to be conservative. I am still struggling with McCain being the candidate, and consider him a RINO. I have made a couple of small donations to the RNC, but can't bring myself to donate directly to his campaign. This week, it seems he's actively trying to lose the election already! :feeling *very* disenfranchised:

Jillness, I'm totally with you. The guy managed to make me laugh out loud several times during the primary campaign.

Also, I have some respect for the man. I fundamentally disagree with all of his social policies, but at least he came out there and said what he meant, and meant what he said. I can respect that in a person, even if I abhor what it is they are stumping for. Not sure if that's even logical but oh well.

Most Conservatives don't want to legislate any of the things you mentioned Rac. They want them to be state issues.

Lain why do you think he is trying to lose the election this week? Did I miss something?

Thanks, Cine. I really was all set to vote for McCain, I really was until he started doing the same old rhetoric to appease his religious base. I just can't swallow that social conservative pill.

Of all the conservatives I know, I don't know any of them that actually support the religious right.

I think he is in a tough situation. Without them he can't win, but appeasing them makes people on the other side of the fence angry.

that makes me angry! and it also makes me angry that decent, tolerant Christians are becoming maligned because of the religious right.

I think this is an excellent illustration as to why Church and State need to be kept separate.

Tell me about it Kris!

I really, really, really wish I had more time to spend on this thread today!

First and foremost, I do believe the Conservatives need to re-align and get back on track, but I am completely clue-less as to how Huckabee believes he is the man for the job? Someone needs to tell him that true Conservatives and the Religious Right are two different groups.

To dive a little deeper, the Religious Right is probably the group that most hurt what the view of Conservatives are and the media took it and ran with it. While I believe the media heavily pushes that the Religious Right and Conservatives are one and the same, I blame the Conservatives fort allowing that to happen.

Now, to focus a little on the current state of the Republican Party, for the most part the party has strayed from it's Conservative values (and has strayed a little closer to the Religious Right.)

I'm not a Libertarian, but I could honestly say (and sadly) that in certain areas the Libertarian party has guided a little closer to true Conservative Values. I do believe it is important to note that one of the bigger areas of disagreement would be on Foreign policy as we need to be a nation of strength, not isolation.

I'll try and swing back in again today if I can, but it's kind of crazy over here.

I miss you all very much so!

h, and I just finished reading Atlas Shrugged, all 1,1xx pages and I believe it is now my favorite book and I am incredle sad I am finished with it.

Cine: It's that little item in North Carolina, where he's trying to make the state party stop running Rev. Wright-themed ads. He is saying that it's racist, apparently. Laura Ingraham was discussing it this morning. IMO it's one of the best arguments against Obama: The company he keeps. Uh, Weather Underground, anyone?

I honestly believe that an entire party/movement in lockstep with no deviation is a very scary thing. Absolutely we should not worry about "schisms" within parties and movements.

I do think, though, that the perception of the Conservative movement could use some fixing, as many of you have laid out very well.

Frankly, I would love to see the entire system overhauled so we can get past this idea that two parties could even come close to representing the wide range of values and beliefs in this country.

where were you on the business thread for me M3?? where were ya!

I think you need to quit your job.

Hi 3M! We miss you too!

Oh, how I wish I could quit, miss cabaker, but someonehow I don't believe my fiance wants to take on the finacial burden of me doing that.

Where's the business thread? Let me do some poking around.

Well unfortch for you M3, the business thread with McCain on wages was about women getting paid less... since you're not a woman, you're opinion doesn't count because you will obviously be sexist

Shouldn't my opinion count even more because I am sexist? I could give an inside view.

P.S. Amazing job in there miss. I read through it all and felt you pretty much had it covered.

We'll either see the end of unions in the US or we'll send the end of production in the US. I suppose it's in Congress's hands.

Oh, and you have to read Atlas Shrugged. It is now my most favorite book and I am positive you will love it.

I will add it to my list!! Not quite a beach read, but I'll take it with me anyway and make it work!

I started to read Atlas Shrugged when I was in college, but I didn't stick with it. I don't think I really had the patience or perspective to understand it then. (or care) I still own it, so i'll try again!

I felt the first hundred to 200 pages were the hardest. Not because they were slow, but because there was a lot of stuff going on, a lot of people you were trying to get a grasp on, etc etc.

Once you know the main players (who are some of the most developed characters I feel I have ever read) I was wrapped in it.

I finished the book in just under three weeks as I was grabbing it at any chance I had.

I say DEATH TO UNINIONS

Lain, it could be a strategic move. They are not going to stop playing the Wright propaganda, but this way if Obama does not win, he can use some of his supporters.