TIRED OF THIS SHIZZ!!!

Bring on the haters!!

Why should anyone who commits a crime be investigated?

MC is coming for you.

not only should the crimes be investigated... they should be locked up at guantanamo bay when they are found GUILTY.

Well first of all if I were the sitting administration I'd be like thanks for the heads up and start dumping information.

If constitutional crimes have been committed as so many seem to think they have been and there is a realistic chance of investigators getting their hands on tangible evidence than sure bring it to a hearing.

I understand that on an internal level Sen. Obama says he would not want a circus or a witch hunt, but we all know that as soon as the press gets a whiff that the hunt is afoot all mayhem is going to break loose. Then we'll be in front of our TVs, papers, internet and being asked a million and one times is this a witch hunt by the Obama administration. Which in the lay persons mind will translate to President Obama is on a witch hunt and he will be wrapped up in the very turmoil he tried to avoid.

So the question in Sen. Obama's mind should be is it worth my political life to bring justice at any cost? Or is it just not worth it?

It doesn't matter who heads the administration, things will always be called into question. People fail to realize that leading a country is one of the hardest things one would have to do. Not everyone will agree with the decisions that person makes.

I myself am tired of all the "conspiracy theories" People should be excited pretty soon there will be a new person to blame for everything.

Obama administration .. I think not. Bite your tongue.

Why not investigate? I mean, Bill Clinton was impeached over far less important issues. If the Bush Administration hasn't done anything wrong, it'll show up in the investigation. Personally, I'd like to see *something* done now that the United States tortures people. I'm not OK with that.

bella, perjury is a pretty important issue to me.

"Well first of all if I were the sitting administration I'd be like thanks for the heads up and start dumping information. "

hahah hypno!

I wonder if Obama's "pay then go" or whatever policy applies to this... Is he going to raise our taxes to fund the millions of dollars to be poured into this? If we have those millions just laying around, would it be unreasonable to expect them to be put to a better use?

Bottom line is, this will probably happen, we will spend millions on it, and nothing will come of it.

between the undeclared war, the hundreds of thousands of dead iraqui civilians, the Valerie Plame ousting, and Guantanamo i think there should DEFINATELY be an investigation and DEFINATELY some convictions.. i bet they'll have more internal emails go "missing"...

"Why not investigate? I mean, Bill Clinton was impeached over far less important issues."

He committed PERJURY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a big deal! Why is it people want to make it sound like he was impeached over sexual acts?

Perjury IS an important matter, so is lying to the American public to justify a war and torture. We are, as Bush Sr. said a number of times, a nation that believes in the rule of law. We are therefore obligated to investigate allegations that laws have been broken, by ourselves, by others acting on our behalf, by people who mean us harm. It's actually not unusual when there is a change in the White House from one party to the other for new department heads to take regulations to court and have them overturned. So Obama's not really talking about doing anything out of the ordinary.

I also take issue with the Torture comment. First you need to prove that torture was committed and condoned. Gathering information is not torture

Because Clinton was impeached over lying about a sexual relationship; the matters that pop into people's heads when discussion turns to investigating the current administration is, to many people, far more serious. Go figure, some people think torture, killing and ravaging another country are worse than lying about sex.

Cine ... come on, that is such a silly excuse. If we dragged every President into impeachment hearings for perjury, we wouldn't have a government. Are you seriously comparing perjuring evidence to commit us to a war, perjuring to illegally tap our phones and perjuring to allow illegal torture to an extra-marital affair?

There is CIA video of torture taking place, there are hundreds of photographs from Abu Ghraib: there would be plenty of evidence to begin Obama's investigation of whether crimes were committed Dave. The begin the investigation, allegations are needed.

It's not that people think perjury itself doesn't matter. It's that the perjury concerned sexual relations for which the country was not harmed. The only harm came when the witch hunt forced the administration to have to divert its attention away from substantive issues and focus on defending against allegations of a lecherous president and the associated perjury. The perjury only happened because the questions were asked, and those questions should not have been asked. When you weigh that against the allegations of war crimes, I can't believe that you would say those are equal. If you think that the Clinton impeachment was warranted, then you should be jumping up and down all over town trying to get the Bush administration investigated. Otherwise, you're just a hypocrite.

Thank you, Remedios. It's time we put justice over politics. If you're a patriot than you love the laws of your country over an ideology of a particular party.

I think the world will be paying very close attention to the next President. We can't continue to be hypocrites if we want to make progress internationally.

There is CIA video of torture taking place, there are hundreds of photographs from Abu Ghraib

First and foremost, Abu Ghraib was not condoned by the administration. To say otherwise is silly. The people who committed those sensless acts have been punished.

Second, what was shown on the CIA video? Was it the techniques that at least two lawyers signed off as not torture? If it wasn't, was the technique explicitly condoned as a viable technique?

Well I can't speak for cine, but I never once equated perjury with anything else.

All I said was that PERJURY is a huge deal to me NO MATTER THE FREAKING REASON! So stop excusing him for doing something that everyone knows is WRONG (lying under oath!)

You know as some one who dances on the left side of the fence I'm really tired of hearing people say what Bill Clinton did was no big deal. It was a big deal. He committed pergery under oath and he was in contradiction of his oath to uphold the office of the President. He could have lied about taking a lolly pop from the local drug store and if he did it under oath its still pergery.

Now we can certainly say that the every day consequences of his pergery were of no concern to most. However, former President Clinton was no layperson he was the President of the United States of America and for him to make a mockery of everything that we entrusted him with may have been o.k. for the average Joe however completely beneath his position.

As for the Bush administration the same goes for him. If he stepped out of bounds he should be investigated and brought to justice.

Waterboarding was shown in the CIA video - and it doesn't matter if the lawyers signed off on it. There are plenty of people in jail who did things their lawyers said were okay.
Donald Rumsfeld said he took full responsibility for Abu Ghraib - he may still have some explaining to do, as do some of the officers in charge.

So stop excusing him for doing something that everyone knows is WRONG (Torture!)

$

What if everyone doesn't believe torture is wrong?

i agree with Hypno on the matter of doing an investigation if Obama becomes president. While i think it would be really important to investigate wrong-doing, if that's the first thing he does in office, i would be really disappointed.

Not because i think the Bush administration is wonderful (far from it!), but because i KNOW that the media will pounce on it and all the news networks will be foaming at the mouths for every morsel of information and it will absolutely overshadow any good that Obama will try to do.

My question is - why can't the Bush administration be investigated now by a Congressional Oversight Committee? The next president shouldn't have to do this and get themselves heavily involved. Let it be investigated but let it be led by Congress. There will definitely be a larger Democratic majority and that should be part of their agenda.

However, it shouldn't be the WHOLE agenda. We have a lot of other problems to deal with and i don't think it should be priority #1. Honestly, if Bush were convicted of condoning torture and making up lies to advance the Iraq war, it still wouldn't bring back the 4,000+ lives lost to the war....

i guess i'm just conflicted about this - how much should we look back and punish this administration and how much do we look forward and start cleaning up the sh*tpile we inherited?

interesting points nica

Then we let the investigators and the courts decide. Though personally, I find it hard to believe that a reasonable, moral person would condemn lying about a mutually agreed upon sexual relationship but not condemn the torture of other human beings. But that's just me.

"First and foremost, Abu Ghraib was not condoned by the administration."

Recently it has been disclosed that Bush and his adminstration had multiple meetings about what type of methods would be used on prisoners. It is VERY possible that their orders did reach Abu Ghraib.

"However, it shouldn't be the WHOLE agenda. We have a lot of other problems to deal with and i don't think it should be priority #1."

I agree...and I think Obama does too. He is constantly trying to bring attention back to the most important matters. Even his quote above says this.

I still don't understand why its so bad that they discussed what they can do legally to get information before they actually did anything... This is bad because why?? Aren't you supposed to find out what the rules are so you can play by them??

Oh get real. Do you think this administration would condone the senseless denegration of inmates? What those soldiers did was pointless. What is the purpose of "torture"? Information gathering. What kind of information do you think they got by piling naked men on top of each other.

Well you just made the point cabaker27. If you go through the trouble of finding out what the rules are, than by all means please play by them. The problem is the Administration cheated and if their deeds done in secrecy are by any means against constitutional law than justice should be brought to bear upon them.

Well put, Stephley!

I find it sad that people who supported the impeachment of President Clinton on the basis that his perjury showed a complete disregard for our system of justice - which is at the heart of our Constitution and our way of life - don't seem to have a problem with the many ways in with President Bush has shown *his* disrespect of the Constitution and our way of life.

I'm not talking about wild conspiracy theories. I don't believe 9/11 was an inside job or anything like that, but I do believe that the Bush Administration doesn't give a damn what the Constitution says and that they've done everything in their power to try and create an 'imperial' presidency where the rule of law is essentially irrelevant. The biggest example of that? His constant use of "signing statements" to indicate which part of laws passed by Congress he would abide by, and what parts he felt shouldn't apply to him or his administration.

There need to be investigations in not only any potential War Crimes that might have been committed, but also into any potential violations of the Constitution that may have occurred. There are two reasons why I feel very strongly about this: (1) We have to show the international community that we are capable of policing ourselves and setting our course aright if we want to have any chance at winning back their trust; and (2) We, as citizens, need it to be made clear to future potential leaders that they can't run this country into the ground without facing the consequences of their actions. Another reason is that we need to understand just how deep the malfeasance, corruption and incompetence extend and what possible damage or land mines we may have to face while cleaning up the mess of the last 8 years.

Yes, it isn't likely to help the polarization of our country, but sweeping it all under the rug isn't likely to do that, either, and who knows what the long-term repercussions of allowing a government to run amok and unchecked could be. If the Bush administration has truly done nothing wrong, then they have nothing to fear from an investigation - in fact, an investigation could vindicate their actions and policies.

Cab, i think it just rubs me the wrong way because i don't think torture (even in that oft-mentioned doomsday scenario) really works and it's wrong to go into gray areas of "is waterboarding for 10 seconds torture when 5 seconds is just harsh interrogation techniques?"

Discussing torture as having different levels of legality implies that yes, it is acceptable for one human being to reduce another person's dignity to such a state that something like a few seconds can distinguish between torture and "harsh interrogation."

But i think this is another (gasp!) issue that we'll have to agree to disagree on.

I can see your point there Nica, but yes, we will just disagree!

I think the Bush Administration has been so shrouded in secrecy and guarded about what they share with the public that there is plenty of reason to believe certain crimes have been committed, especially related to the Iraq War, the Patriot Act, torture, etc. Once their outta there and every thing is made public, I think it's worth taking a look at. That said, it should not be the center of any administration's first year (Republican or Democrat) because it would be much too distracting during what is considered one of the most productive periods in any presidency. A smart and low-key investigation by a bi-partisan group is absolutely in order I'd say.

That is why Mc is going to fry him some Bush booty.

I wish that Congress WOULD do its job and not wait for a possible new administration to ask the important questions. Congress has had problems with getting Administration officials to testify under oath and an Oversight Committee would probably have an even worse time, but I don't see that as a valid reason not to try.

of course his administration should be investigated for crimes.....first of all, it would maybe help you americans gain the respect of the rest of the world that you lost in the last 8 years and then, because it's fair...no one it's above justice, not even the most powerful man in the world.what he did in iraq, guantanamo etc. it's disgusting...and it's even more disgusting when listening to his speeches about moral, and god and all his hypocrisy

I think we're missing something very obvious here. Bush is a polarizing President. So lets just say for argument that he was investigated and he was cleard and everyone else was cleared with him, then what? Would that make people who hate him like him more? No. Then they would just shout CONSPIRACY!

So whats the point?

Actually ca, we'd then get another Micheal Moore "documentary"

hahah very true!

but just an investigation would be great...i don't really know a lot about your internal issues, but it would do a lot for your credibility as a country, and let's be honest you need it...honestly, do i believe something is going to come out of it? not really...

I think any organized crime boss would like to try that defense Cabaker 'you're not gonna believe any jury that clears me, so why bother?' We have laws and we need to make sure that they're upheld. If he's cleared of any wrongdoing in any matter, then most people will shut up. But look at Clinton, there were extensive, expensive investigations into four or five matters before he was found guilty of lying about a sexual relationship; he wasn't convicted of anything involving Whitewater, travelgate, troopergate or anything else they threw at him. Should Congress have bothered?

I'm not saying that if there is sufficient enough evidence to warrant an investigation that it wouldn't be worth it, but I just don't see this improving or making worse anyone's opinion of him or this country. So it just seems fruitless.

"All I said was that PERJURY is a huge deal to me NO MATTER THE FREAKING REASON! So stop excusing him for doing something that everyone knows is WRONG (lying under oath!)"

Thank you Syako!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!