"The men, who faced prison for criminal conspiracy to commit robbery, can remain on parole if they learn to read and write English, earn their GEDs and get full-time jobs, Luzerne County Judge Peter Paul Olszewski Jr. said."

The WHOLE sentence seemed like a good idea if it had been carried out and they were going to stay in this country, but they violated their legal status by being convicted of crimes.

The usual punishments are not always enough to deter some people from committing crimes - I like the idea of coming up with creative sentences. Although I don't think the punishment fit the severity of the crime.

And, despite the circumstances, it is good to hear that some immigrants actual bothered to go through the legal channels to get here.

Why were they still deported? Were they unwilling to accept the sentence?

They supposedly were working on the sentence, but the government says by being convicted of a crime they forfeit their legal status.

Interesting...I wonder how far they got in terms of working on the sentence. I also think there's nothing wrong with encouraging people to learn English...overall it helps them more, doesn't it?

"And, despite the circumstances, it is good to hear that some immigrants actual bothered to go through the legal channels to get here."

Yes, not all of us come here through rickety vans, wearing ponchos, being chased by la migra. Thanks.

@em1282: I hope you were not offended by my comment, and if so I apologize. I didn't mean it that way.

The judicial branch is just trying to front! They see the executive branch wildly exceeding its authority so they just stepping up to keep it real. GO JUSTICE!

I'm confused as to how a legal immigrant can be deported for this reason. Is there a specific time in country that would have excluded them being deported? Need to do some research on that.

Good use of the word "convicts". At first I thought it was a bit excessive but then realized that they ARE convicts. I remember an article not too long ago on here where "illegal immigrants" were just referred to as "immigrants".

Piper, I'm assuming they were here legally on a visa. If they are here on a visa and commit a crime, they would be deported. If they had become or were citizens, then I do not believe they could have been deported.

Overall I think the sentence is a great idea, I just think some people may never be able to learn another language as an adult, especially if they are not literate in their first language. I have a high school and college degree, after 12 years and living in a South America, I still struggle sometimes with Spanish. I couldnt imagine trying to learn say Portuguese or some other language now.. But then again, I am not living in Portugal breaking the law..

And ...Linb I hope you arent offended by my comment, but when people say things like " actually bothered to go through the legal channels" it makes me think they have no clue what goes into coming here legally.

It's not like most immigrants can just go down and apply for a visa wait a few months and come over. The system is so freaking complicated, I'm not going to go into it here.

But if people are going to "bother" paying thousands of dollars to be smuggled in this country, then basically walk hundreds of miles without food or water, to take jobs that pay them next to nothing compared to American standards...don't you think they'd "bother" to come here legally if they could?

I'm not saying it's right to come here illegally, I just know the overwhelming majority of people who come here illegally would come legally if they could.. they want to be legal.

if they truly *wanted* to be legal they'd be legal honey. My husband did it and so did MILLIONS of other immigrants. It's not impossible and if you can't get in legally, well maybe you shouldn't come.

I dont know where your husband is from but every one's immigration case is different, and the level of desire to be legal is not a factor the US government takes into much consideration when they process applications. There may be millions of people who come over legally, but MILLIONS MORE come over illegally.

Just ask any immigration attorney, it is nearly impossible for some people to come here legally.

It's a lot harder for say an uneducated person from a country like Mexico--which has its quota maxed out for years--than an educated person from a highly developed country where the quota isn't maxed out. You have to have an employee sponsor you, or a family member sponsor you or are going to start a business---and even those things dont guarantee citizenship.

I'm not saying people who come here illegally don't deserve to be punished... I just think we need to consider how complex and difficult our immigration system is, even for for Americans to understand.

"and the level of desire to be legal is not a factor the US government takes into much consideration when they process applications"
as it shouldn't be.

"it is nearly impossible for some people to come here legally."
if it were nearly impossible then how did all these legal immigrants do it.

I just think it sounds like you are throwing out a carte blanche for people to come here illegally when there are proper channels which are not IMPOSSIBLE to get here. And it's not just people from HIGHLY developed countries either.

Yes it's complex, but for a reason - we aren't in the time and age of ellis island where you get on a ship and come - if it were like that we'd have many more problems than we're already having now in immigration.

Right on, syako. I'm all for anyone who wants to legally enter the country, but we can't have everyone who wants to come in just walk in. The process is difficult for a reason.

I made my original comment because when I first heard about this story, I just assume they were illegal. I was surprised to find out I was wrong. Knowing how difficult it is to get in the country legally, it is a shame that they wasted their opportunity and committed a crime, and have now been deported.

Sorry I threw the comments off on a tangent...

My grandfather came over on Ellis Island... I probably wouldn't be here today if the immigration system of today existed when he came over--- and neither would millions and millions of Americans.

And if you read what I wrote, I'm not throwing out a carte blanche for illegal immigration. That's ridiculous. Living here illegally is actually a horrible way to live and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I also didnt say just people from high developed countries can come over legally, I was referring to country quotas on immigration--- and the quotas are filled up for many third world countries. That's not my opinion, that's a fact. Ask an any immigration attorney

My point was simply that the immigration system is complex, and citizenship is a lot more difficult to obtain than most Americans realize. Like I stated, every immigration case is different, so it's not nearly impossible for everyone, but I've met many people who simply could not obtain a visa to come here.. people who didnt break the law, wanted to work, and truly wanted to be Americans. It happens everyday.

A complex immigration system is not justification for entering the country illegally.

Many countries have complex immigration systems, such as France or Italy. It is very difficult to move there or get visas to live. It's not just a system America has and it's easy to move everywhere else in the world. There are systems in place to protect countries that are highly desireable to live. If they weren't protected and didn't have guidelines to follow then eventually they would be overrun and no longer desireable to live in any more.

Just because one country's conditions suck doesn't mean other countries should have no standards of their own. Mexico should address these problems that have it's citizens running for the borders.

Imagine if poor countries DID address their problems, and threw the IMF and World Bank out, and stopped allowing big corporations to suck their resources dry and pay their people miniscule amounts for work outsourced from here - why we'd be begging them to stop and we'd let their tired, their hungry and their poor to slip across our borders again!

Ugh, I'm not even getting into the immigration mess.

But it's really not that easy to learn another language. Like Brittney says, it's especially difficult if you aren't particularly well-educated in your mother tongue. But it's also nearly impossible to learn a language to fluency once you reach adulthood - about 30. Your brain has already been trained too much in a single language, no matter how hard you try to get another one completely perfect. But if you're bilingual (or more) before you reach that critical age, especially if you start before puberty, then it's considerably easier to acquire multiple other foreign languages, especially ones that are relatively close to those you already speak.

So, as a linguist, I think giving a limit like a month or even a year to learn any language is a bit ridiculous. And even if they were able to learn a good deal of the language, it would never be up to any sort of Ivy League standard of speech. Though it might just be better than the current president's command of English..

Brittney- I completely agree with you. People usually only like to see one side of the situation. And I understand that you aren't implying at all that a complex immigration system is justification for entering the country illegally but that there are complex immigration systems around the world (PARTICULARLY third world countries where things aren't even close to as efficient and it takes months for even one step of the process to take place). As an American I just applied for dual citizenship from another "3rd world" country and it took a year and a half. I can only imagine what it must be like getting legal entry into the U.S.

The legal immigration process for most "civilized" countries is complex.

And as for them being convicts, it's good that someone found that out. America also doesn't allow Communists (except Cubans) and polygamists to immigrate here.

As for learning English: Yes, it's a difficult language, but most of the population in America speaks English. When you go to most foreign countries to live there, the people generally don't treat you very well (in my experience.) However, if you even TRY to learn the local language, they treat you better (unless you go to any Scandinavian country; they generally have pretty good English because hardly anyone bothers to learn their languages.)

I meant to add: I think EVERYONE should be bilingual. I'm not saying "Forget your language!" I'd just like it if people just tried to learn my native tongue in my home country.

I apologize if I sound like an *sshole.

Not American - don't know the ins and outs of the immigration system, other than it's strict but I don't think it's prohibitively so.
But, I do agree that if you're migrating to a country, you should be able to speak the primary language of that country - if only for your own benefit - seeking employment, health-care, groceries and general socialisation are OBVIOUSLY assisted by knowing the language and more than that, it shows that you want to become part of that country, not just change where you're living (if that makes sense).
But I guess, in all, the minute I read "convicted of armed robbery and assault" I thought they should be deported. No country needs to adopt that.

I take a pretty lenient stance on immigration as a whole, but the judges sentence was absolutely absurd.

If I go to Japan to visit and I rob a store at gun point, they aren't going to make me learn Japanese as a punishment.

It's an iffy situation...deport them or imprison them, but either way: a sentence of "learn a langauge" is ridiculous.

Thanks bailaoragaditana, for your professional opinion. Sometimes, I am shocked how people are one sided and just throw out information.

I think the judge should be disbarred for such an aggrevious abuse of his power. Would he also give an english speaking American the same sentence? I am glad someone else picked this up and got those two criminals deported.

The following is just a story of my family I would like to share.
I'll keep the opinion to a minimum.
My grandparents moved here legally back when my mom was 11.
My grandfather had worked in America for years sending back money
to my grandma and their 7 children (not sure if he entered legally at first)
Eventually they saved enough and got qualified to get visas.
After moving here they had two more children.
They essentially lived in poverty for years in ghettos of East LA
with 9 children sharing a room until they moved to the house
they currently reside in on the outskirts of ELA.
This is the house where I spent most of my life until joining the Navy
right out of high school. (Papa was a rolling stone )
There's is an almost ideal story of success.
Our family has gone on to be very successful. Upper management of financial insurance firms, Captains of fire departments, english professors, IT specialists, Police officers, I'm an RN now, well you name it.
But many immediate families within our own extended family and friends were not so fortunate initially.
The fact remains that in every case their situation has been
more stressful and difficult because of the legality issues.
They are just doing what they have to do to give their children
the oppurtunity to be successful. (my opinion)
Is it right?, I dunno, it's a gray area for me. The law is certainly broken.
My wife's mother crossed back and forth multiple times throughout
her life. The path is no easy journey. Eventually she got in legally
after marrying my father in-law and moving to Nicaragua.
He had fought in the Sandinista-Contra war in Nicaragua and was
allowed legal entry for his family in 1991. My wife was 9.
An uncle of ours is going through legal battles and has been
on the verge of deportation for some time now. He is unable to work
legally for the time being, so is working odd jobs here and there.
He entered the US back in the 80's and helped my wife's family with
a place to stay and finding work when they first entered.
He got let go from an electronics company that he was a supervisor
at. He worked for that company for 15 years and even relocated
to North Carolina when the company moved. His elder son is a college grad and works as a physical therapist to athletes. His younger son was born in the states. He is a straight A honor student and plays football. He wants to be a lawyer.
His dad may not be in the states to see him graduate in two years
but we're praying for a good outcome.
My grandmother don't speak a lick of English and my Grandpa is not that much better. Neither do my in-laws. Hard to learn a language while working multiple jobs and raising a successful family.

(the following is my opinion)
We are hardworking people in a way some American's can never understand. You could not possibly. You are no longer immigrants
as your ancestors were. You are privileged. Thank God as I do
that our children have not those type of worries. We have contributed
to society absolutely and positively with sound moral and work ethic.
We are proud. Legality of entry is often a privilege of those having never faced poverty and famine. Hope brought us here. The sniveling
of the privileged will never stop us.

Welcome to a new world.

Gadflea

100% Mexican-American