its a reality in my office that there are morbidly obese women who call in sick all the time and they frequently cannot perform the duties they were hired for.

I have to agree with you, caterpillar.... I always get asked to help with file and copy paper boxes because of back/knee issues (among other things) that some of the obese people in my office have... It may be cheap to eat badly, but that doesn't mean you have to eat large amounts of it... weight is controllable to a certain extent. I'm not saying you have to 100 pounds, but I can understand why a bias toward someone morbidly obese exists...

It is cheap to eat badly? That is the worst excuse I have ever heard Citizen. It is also cheap to take a walk.

It is wrong to discriminate, but if the person is frequently ill, and cost the company money, or cannot fulfill their obligations to their job, then a company should not be forced to keep them around to spare them their feelings.

Hi cine_lover,

I called out that reason because it was used in the study, their argument, not mine. Though I do think there might be socio-economic issues behind the weight epidemic. I imagine some people don't live in neighborhoods where they feel safe to walk, or work two jobs and don't have time? Not making excuses, just thinking about it. . . .

Hm--this is complicated.

On one hand, obviously it's terrible for any group of people to be singled out and discriminated against.

On the other, unfortunately, discrimination will never go away. As stated in the article, racism is now taboo, but instead of being the end of discrimination, it's just been replaced by another sort of discrimination. Discrimination at its heart is nothing but a manifestation of the us-versus-them, pack/tribe mentality of human nature, which needs to put down the "other" to promote one's own pack or tribe. That kind of behavior has been a constant for all of human history.

Once it becomes taboo to discriminate against the overweight, some other group will come under fire. And then another and another. Do we really think we're going to be able to legislate away human nature? I wish it were possible but it seems an unrealistic undertaking.

I see your concerns Caterpillargirl and Mondaymoos. I personally feel in address to your points that if a person is obese to the extent that they can not perform those simple tasks which you describe due to physical ailments derived from their obesity that they should then be classified as handicapped. With such classification their employer will be required by law to accommodate their limitations.

In the mean time it is important for all of us especially those who have the privilege of raising children to incorporate a healthy lifestyle when it comes to diet and exercise.

I would also like to add that societies negative views of obesity is not only tied to health and fitness but sexuality as well.

I thought we were a nation of fat people - that's what they're usually telling us.
The ABC article doesn't include any data, I'd have to see that before I believe that discrimination is 'rampant'.
From articles about study:
"The study documented the prevalence of self-reported weight discrimination and compared it to experiences of discrimination based on race and gender among a nationally representative sample of adults aged 25- to 74-years-old."
'Self-reported' needs defining and the comparison doesn't seem quite equal - people DO have more control over their weight than their race or gender.
Good luck to anyone trying to write a law on this.

"I would also like to add that societies negative views of obesity is not only tied to health and fitness but sexuality as well."

Hypnotic, that's one of the interesting things about this whole issue, IMO. A lot of other sorts of discrimination, such as racism, seem to me to be based on fear or feeling threatened by the group discriminated against (like homophobic people fearing the influence of the gay community). Discrimination against the overweight seems more about judging a presumed lifestyle.

I think that's why this kind of discrimination is easier to get away with culturally--it's easier to pass off prejudice not as prejudice, but as a criticism of a lifestyle, which can be changed.

Discrimination is a very useful tool Jude however it is the context in which it is used that is at question here. Some targets are simply inappropriate and require a moral standard to remind us of such.

This is a tough issue. I don't think it's right to discriminate against them for no reason (like you just don't want bigger people in your office), but for things plane tickets I think that if you are big enough to take up 2 seats you should have to pay for 2 seats. Eating poorly may cause you to weigh more than someone who eats healthier, but you can still control your calories. You won't get to 300 pounds (unless you're very tall) just eating cheap food unless you're eating way too much of it.

I just think that it IS a health issue similar to smoking in that it has been linked to all sorts of health problems. It seems like its controversial to call overeating an addiction, but I've read articles showing that similar areas in the brain are stimulated during eating binges and using other addictive substances. It's just a hard issue all the way around.

One difference between obesity and, say, race, is that like MM says, obesity can cause all sorts of health problems which cost employers money.

Agreed very much with the "if you take up 2 seats, you need to pay for 2 seats" statement, MM!

Hypno, am I understanding you correctly that you feel if an obese person is so obese that they can't perform tasks required of them that they should receive special treatment, because they should be deemed handicap?

Hmmm Citizen... Sounds like excuses to me.

I agree with you mondaymoos. "It may be cheap to eat badly, but that doesn't mean you have to eat large amounts of it... weight is controllable to a certain extent".

I totally disagree with the idea that if you are obese you should be classified as handicapped. How about taking care of yourself, diet & exercise? If you are truly disabled that's one thing, but being obese and carrying around a hanicapped placard while you walk into Home Town Buffet is wrong.

Hot topic.
Enough for me.
I'm out.

Yes, Marinermandy a very tough issue. There are so many variables when it comes to being obese. I would like to see a study that breaks down the % break down of people who are obese from choice to simply eat poorly and not exercise, to genetically predisposed to obesity, to obesity due to depression. Three very different reasons for being obese which require three different approaches to the problem.

Hootie, amen!

Living off the government just because you prefer to eat a bucket of hotwings in one sitting should NOT be permissable. And yet, it is... Don't get me wrong, if you have a legitimate health issue... a gland issue?, I can't remember what causes obesity medically... I understand. But don't expect a free ride just because you don't like to a take a jog.

Well cine_lover in the U.S. if I am not mistaken and if I am I'm sure you'll relish letting me know, obesity is considered a disease in some cases predominately with the genetically predisposed. As with any medical ailment if it prevents you from performing basic functions under current standards one can be classified as disabled. Under current laws if you are disabled your employer is required by such laws to accommodate your needs. I'm just telling it like it is cine_lover.

I have the same sentiments on this as Mariner. Just wanted to add...

Ever heard someone use the example of why people can chastise smokers and it isn't seen as discrimination, but if someone were to call out someone morbidly obese eating a Big Mac, they would be seen as rude and heartless? Aren't both situations where you are undermining your own health by choice?

Of course, this only applies to those significantly obese without an underlying, uncontrollable cause.

I'm genetically predisposed to obesity, hypnotic. I have to work twice as hard to stay at a weigh most would consider "average". I refuse to see that as an excuse.

Oh, this is old news. And I see a lot of that mindset surfacing here, too.

Read up on more current research. There is some thinking, still unconfirmed, that much of appetite and metabolism is genetic. Why do you gain weight? (I'll exclude our sedentary lifestyles, because that applies to both skinny and fat people.) You eat more than necessary and don't burn it efficiently. Why do you eat more? You're hungry. This has to do with brain chemistry and how well your stomach communicates with your brain. Why are some people more likely to store their calories as fat, and others burn it off? That's how well the "engine" utilizes the fuel.

Anyone of any size can have weak bones, joints or muscles, which will affect their physical capabilities (such as lifting).

I read some info a while ago, about so-called "skinny fat" people. They look fine, but because they are not in good condition, they have many of the same medical concerns that obviously overweight people do.

The thing with the genetic link is that you get into a nature vs. nurture debate that goes around and around in circle. I've heard soooo many claim that they are "genetically" fat based soley on their parent's weight. Yes, there are very real medical causes of obesity, but that seems to be everyone's excuse.

I can only speak for myself personally since I haven't inhabited anyone else's body, but I have drastically changed the way I eat since I was in high school. I just don't crave the food I craved before and the food I like has completely changed. I think that if you want to be healthy there is a way to do that. If you don't want to be healthy I don't really know what society in general can do about that beyond the ridicule we already dish out. It's like alcoholism; if the alcoholic isn't completely commited to being sober there is NOTHING that anyone can do to make them.

Obesity is not a disease. It can be cause by genetic factors as in Prader-willi syndrome (where you cannot stop eating)There are certain Thyroid issues that can cause it, but can be helped with medication. more so its caused by lifestyle choices. Furthurmore obesity isnt a disability or handicap, therefore cannot be claimed in reasoning for not being hired. If we classified obesity as a disability this country would be in for a heck of a problem supporting those people who would now claim unable to work.

Oh yeah I agree people would be surprised at how much more food you can eat and still loose weight. It's the foods you choose to eat that people need to educate themselves about. I am a classic emotional eater. I've never been close to obese but after I stopped competing in sports I definitely had a pudgy belly. When I made the conscious decision to change my diet I found myself eating more and loosing weight. It's great.

Sometimes depression causes obesity. I grew up with fat people, and they are not fat because they are a bunch of lazy people with major character flaws, or lack discipline to eat well or take care of themselves. My parents bust their butts at their jobs. Due to depression and illness, they struggle with obesity.

I understand what you guys are saying. It's unfair that someone just doesn't take care of themselves and can't fully perform their job duties. And Jude, I agree with you 100% that you can't regulate human nature.

But in the end, people are just people. A lot of factors contribute to obesity, and they aren't all within that person's control. You do have the choice of what you put in your mouth, but often it's just not that simple. Anyone who has ever been on a diet knows all of the things that can derail you. Time constraints, fatigue, emotional eating, etc. It's a hard to balance all these things, and if genetics is working against you, sometimes people just give up.

I just think it's too easy a jab. And as a rule the whole lot of us could use a little more compassion. If one obese person at your work ticks you off, that's no reason to generalize that all obese people are drains on the economy or that they're all lazy/bad at their jobs/etc. That's like having an argument with a Jewish guy and going on to say all Jews are argumentative. It's dumb and it's lazy to make wide-sweeping statements.

And it's mega bad karma to pass judgment on others. Let me save you the suspense... you're not perfect either.

Mandy: The difficulty of an argument does not invalidate it. The research in this area is still developing. Can you tell I have a vested interest?

My kids are two years apart. My son is tall and on the slender side of average. My daughter is about 5'2" and is "fluffy." He eats perhaps 40% more than she does. Both have the same two parents and were raised together in the same household. He is more active, and is a terrible fidget, so he burns it off more, but not sufficient to explain the difference in their physiques.

I don't, however, think obesity is a handicap. It may be a complication of another problem, such as rheumatoid arthritis or MS. (I have a friend with each of those, and it does limit their activity.)

If it was easy to lose weight, would so many people go through stomach stapling surgery?

As for the analogies, you *have* to eat. You do *not* have to drink alcohol or smoke. Therefore, it's easier to avoid those temptations.

The EEOC says only morbid obesity, defined as weighing 100 pounds or more over ideal weight, can be an impairment shielded from bias.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-06-12-disability-obesity_N.htm

Unfortunately, it's too late for that, Caterpillar

Here's the thing about the thyroid issue that I take umbrage against - yes, it can be regulated with medication. However, before they catch a thyroid problem, it is possible to gain A LOT of weight. My husband has thyroid problems and he gained 20-30 pounds in a month or so before the doctors figured out what was wrong with him. He is by no means obese, but a number of other physical factors have led to his having problems losing the weight.

I agree with KrisSugar and I think she makes some great points!

Let me correct my comment above. I think my son eats more like 70% more than my daughter. Just being fair.

Heh, at least we rarely have leftovers.

ALSW THAT was what I was looking for... not gland issues, thyroid problems... I can see how those claims are reasonable.

My mothers thyroid is pretty much non-existent, and was put on medication that caused heart problems. She found out that by waking up in the middle of the night thinking she had a heart attack.

I have been raised around people battling their weight my entire life, some morbidly obese. There are many factors that go into being over weight, and nothing is as simple as "they are all just lazy" because that is simply not true.

However, if they cannot fulfill their duties at work, then the employer should not be forced to keep them around in fear of being sued for discrimination.

Hypno, I will relish in nothing. I really do not know the laws well but am looking into them now. I will get back to you

Here's some food for thought (ba dum dum ching!)... You know how people are always bringing up the idea of charging obese people more for health insurance? I read in BusinessWeek a few weeks ago that healthy people actually cost more health insurance wise because we live longer and therefore require more care...

.. interesting way of thinking about it...

On a side note, I freelance for a company that puts on medical seminars for Dr.s, I remarked to a coworker once how every single topic, diabetes, thyroid, heart problems, etc etc, the first line of defense is eating right and exercising. She said to me, "If people ate right and exercised, we'd be out of a job!"

Hypno, if what you say is true, alcoholism is a disease, should they or do they receive special treatment under disability laws?

cabaker, you and that cupcake are going to push me over the edge.

I'm just jabbing ya cine_lover.

As for disability if it falls under a medical ailment you can be designated disabled. It's up to the Dr., but you can be designated disabled and as I mentioned above such designation is protected by certain laws.

I think there are different sides to this story, but it does need to be discussed.

First, as cabaker said, the most rampant and costly diseases are all food related: thyroid, high blood pressure, cholesterol, and diabetes. Some employers are reducing health care benefits for ALL employees because of the cost of covering their overweight workers. GM did this earlier last year.

Second, cheap food is fatty. High fructose corn syrup is in so many cheaper foods (including ketchup!) because it is more cost effective than sugar. This ingredient is addictive and tasty, and I do think in a way it is marketed to the lower class.

Obama actually talked in Texas about one of the biggest ways to make health care less expensive is to feed our children better food.

Oh hypno, I know, I was actually just curious about the alcoholism subject.

Also I hate not being educated on a topic, so now I am researching the heck out of laws pertaining to obesity.

I could maybe see getting handicapped status if they are extremely obese, but only if it was verfied by at least 2 or 3 Dr.s that there is a genetic reason out of their control.

I also think that if someone is so large that they need 2 airline seats, they should be charged for 2. I don't think that is discrimination, you are renting space.

" would like to see a study that breaks down the % break down of people who are obese from choice to simply eat poorly and not exercise, to genetically predisposed to obesity, to obesity due to depression."

I agree. I think finding this information is very important!

Jillness, I am going to have to disagree that high fructose corn syrup is marketed to the lower class. It is in literally everything, cheap or expensive food. Unless you read the label you will buy something with that crap in it. It is for all to consume, not just the poor.

Alcoholism is not covered by the ADA (American's with Disabilities Act). Lainetm, the difference you pointed out between alcoholism and overeating is precisely why food issues are so hard to deal with and treat. Many people who seek treatment for bulimia and anorexia also have alcohol/drug addiction issues. For alcohol and drugs, you teach them to abstain completely but obviously you cannot do that with food. And everyone is different, some people can eat everything in sight and not gain a pound...I was that way until after high school. There's just so many factors that go into it...activity level, the type of food you eat, the amount you eat, your body's natural metabolic level, things you do to affect your metabolism, it goes on and on and on and varies greatly from one person to the next.

There is vast evidence to support both sides of the nature vs. nurture debates. It just depends which one is in vogue at the moment.

I think that despite the fact that it's in most food, poor people are less likely to be able to afford food that doesn't have high fructose corn syrup. Rich people have the ability to shop at places like whole foods and avoid it completely if they're that serious about it.

Kris, you have a point, but not everwhere has a Whole Foods or even a health food section! When I lived in New England there were aisles of health foods in the grocery stores and that was 5 years ago, when I moved south I couldn't even find my favorite fat free milk.... Even today most of the grocery stores here have very little if any health food options.

While it might be partly income based, its also geographic... when you live in the boonies like me, doesn't matter how much money you make, if they stores don't have it, you can't get it!

Kris I see where you are going with this, but it is even in the food you find in whole foods. I don't think most people know how bad it is for you. And wealthy people go out to eat more, and I guarantee most restaurants don't check for food without High Fructose corn syrup or Hydrogenated oils.

Some of my poorest friends eat the healthiest. I just don't think people know how bad processed food is for them to eat.

maybe my comment was too broad. Boonies and lack of awareness are included in the equation.

I guess all we're proving is that high fructose corn syrup is pervasive, no matter who you are, where you're from, how much money you have, etc., and that combined with other factors like genetics, it's a hard battle to fight. which is why we have to be careful before judging an overweight person at work, or why they are overweight in general.

Look, if it's wrong to want a hot chick serving me chicken wings at Hooters, than call me wrong.

Remember the case a while back about the stewardesses... er sorry, flight attendants, who were saying the weight requirements were discriminatory? Whatever happened with that?

There are some jobs that require you to be in good shape, and if you're not, you shouldn't be hired or you should get fired.

People in the military deal with that everyday and you don't hear them screaming discrimination!

That kinda came off as rant-y.... I just made a comment on the airlines and I'm still fired up!

Sorry!