Continuing the theme of co-opting "it's the economy stupid," John McCain delivered a speech moments ago with his thoughts on the housing crunch. Possibly going beyond Clinton's speech yesterday, McCain called the economic situation a "crisis."
Pegging blame on the mortgage fiasco, McCain said, "Any assistance must be temporary and must not reward people who were irresponsible at the expense of those who weren't."
In regard to that assistance, he was very specific:
In our effort to help deserving homeowners, no assistance should be given to speculators. Any assistance for borrowers should be focused solely on homeowners, not people who bought houses for speculative purposes, to rent or as second homes. Any assistance must be temporary and must not reward people who were irresponsible at the expense of those who weren’t. I will consider any and all proposals based on their cost and benefits. In this crisis, as in all I may face in the future, I will not allow dogma to override common sense.
McCain advocated for additional economic help from private businesses too, reminding people that for instance after 9/11, General Motors offered zero percent financing to aid the economy. He added to this calls for higher down payments and stricter lending practices in the housing market.
How do you feel about McCain separating those who may have acted "irresponsibly?" Is this a fair statement? Do you agree that tax dollar aid should only be given to those who didn't speculate on the market?
Finesse
JC de CASTELBAJAC
Hafize Ozbudak
I will have to track down more of his speech, but I agree with what's stated here, particularly the part about not helping those with second homes, etc.
1Lilkim - I just finished listening to his speech a shot while ago. It was a really good one. Granted it didn't state anything Earth shatteringly new, but I liked his deameanor and I agreed with almost 100% of what he said.
Some of my favorite quotes:
"I won't allow dogma to override common sense."
"I have always been committed to the principle that it is not the duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big banks or small borrowers"
"They’ve been asking the government to help them out,” McCain said of lenders. “I’m now calling upon them to help their customers, and their nation, out.”
2"I have always been committed to the principle that it is not the duty of government to bail out and reward those who act irresponsibly, whether they are big banks or small borrowers"
3Anyone want to take a gander at my opinion.
4I think you love socialism in all its forms and hate this speech!
5
6I am guessing it is what came to my mind first, that we should not bail out anyone at all, no matter if they only own one home or more. But at this point 3M, I will take what I can get.
7I agree! help should go to those who are struggling to keep the one home that they have.
8if you are stable enough to own second homes or rental property, you shouldn't need help keeping up. If you do, you might be living beyond your means. In which case, sell, and get yourself to a point that you are comfortable with.
I agree with 3m, you borrow you pay. BUT, I agree also with cine, sometimes you gotta take what you can get.
9I would be really interested to know what amount of foreclosures are people who bought something (or many things) they couldn't afford vs. those who truly made a mistake.
Of course we'll probably never know this because the majority of people have no idea where their money truly goes.
10Thanks for the additional quotes, cabaker. I agree with most that it's not the government's responsibility to "bail people out." However, I think that in this specific case providing assistance to some homeowners is a good idea, not necessarily to help these people for the purpose of helping them, but to help them for the purpose of stimulating the economy. (I haven't looked at specific bills, but I would be for a proposal that provides people with a little bit of assistance, giving them more money to spend on "extras," which would hopefully help booster the economy as a whole.
11Good point Kim!
12I agree 99%. The only reason I can't agree 100% is because I'm a Democrat, LOL!
13
Hypnoticmix
14all this agreeing is SWEET!
15hypno, we can fix that!
16Yes, lets hold hands and skip!
17I get to be Dorathy!
18I get to be Dorathy!
19
that's your toto
20yep, pretty lame now. let's gripe about something. there's a walmart going up in my neighborhood. anyone?
21Oh lord don't get me started. Target all the way baby!
22kris its funny you mentioned that, they just opened a brand new wal mart 1 town over, i stopped in today... usually i'll do anything to avoid walmart, but hey, where else can you get cheese, tennis balls, and saran wrap in the same place?
anywho, it was super nice! the floors were painted a neutral tone, the lighting was scaled back so it wasn't as blinding, and the walls were painted a nice neutral color too... They must have studied Target and started implementing things that make Target more fun to shop at!
23Ew, Walmart. I feel dirty and gross everytime I drive past it. I've been in one once. I was in college and it was the only thing opened past 8 in Western Mass.
I totally agree with not helping speculators. They were looking at these houses as a business investments, therefore they assume the risk inherent in business investments.
The thing that really bugs me about all this talk of stimulating the economy is that it seems like our collective overzealous spending is what gets us into trouble in the first place. So we're going to correct that by more overspending?
24My old roommate was so unbelievably excited about a new one about a year ago that I went with her. She is a commercial real estate agent, so has no problem with big box retailers.
they had stained concrete floors, which was pretty nice. I bought a 16-pack of Ivory soap,
which my dog ate, so my savings were ruined. I did not feel like the yellow smiley face.
25MarinerMandy, you crack me up! Dirty and Gross.
26"The thing that really bugs me about all this talk of stimulating the economy is that it seems like our collective overzealous spending is what gets us into trouble in the first place. So we're going to correct that by more overspending?"
Great point 2M! People who can't control their spending should not be able to get credit cards.
27AND, Mariner, I totally agree with you 100% on:
The thing that really bugs me about all this talk of stimulating the economy is that it seems like our collective overzealous spending is what gets us into trouble in the first place. So we're going to correct that by more overspending?
My tax rebate is going straight to my good friends at VISA. That way, my monthly payment goes down, and I am actually FREE to stimulate the economy with money that comes out of my regular old ho hum paycheck. imagine, spending money I ... have. and when it's gone, I have no one to blame but myself? amazing!
28I SWEAR ya'll, I tried to get us to b*tch about something, and here comes 2M with a great comment, and we all start agreeing again.
29Those are the lines I was thinking along, Kris. Stimulating the economy does not equate to encouraging overspending. A lot of people should be able to easily afford "extras" without using credit. However, some of these people may have abused credit in the past, so their regular salary is going simply to paying bills. With a small amount of relief, they can pay off these bills and use their regular salary to buy leisure items. Buying things that are within your means, even if you don't "need" them, is not overspending in my eyes.
30Oh, and I'll stir the pot a little with your Wal Mart comment, Kris. I personally rarely (maybe twice a year, if that) don't shop at Wal Mart. But, I think it's easy for people to denounce Wal Mart as "disgusting and gross" when they don't NEED it. There are some families that cannot afford to get everything they need elsewhere.
31Yeah, the credit card industry bullies us into getting a card then rapes our wallets with high interest rates. I guess we really can't blame them though since we're the ones doing the bending over.
My father taught me a very important lesson. You don't need a (credit card) to establish good credit. For thirty years he made the choice not to have one and he conducted his business affairs just as well as anyone else.
I'm all for debit cards. You only use what you have, but credit cards are in my opinion stupid and dangerous.
32My "economic stimulus" check is going either to Mastercard or to fix my car. Again. I swear, one of these days I'm going to move to Manhattan so I won't need to deal with cars!
Sorry Kris! How about I say something like, instead of trying to stimulate the economy we should just take money away from rich people and give it to everyone on welfare who doesn't have a job. I mean, who doesn't love some governmental Robin Hood action?
Okay, that's a little extreme even for me...
33you are right kim. walmart is good for some folks, their only choice. I think what I don't like is what they have become. When i was a kid, I remember our first walmart in the 80's. it was so BROWN, remember those? and you went in and got paper towels and laundry soap, underwear, flip flops. it was simple and easy.
Now, even when your neighborhood vehemently opposes it, and doesn't want one, they'll come anyway, and people will shop there anyway. honestly, there isn't much choice. even in what they offer. I like choices, I guess. But that's my luxury, choice. You are right, many folks don't have much choice.
34I am generally not in line with McCain's thinking, but I do agree with him on this one.
Those who were speculating on the market and buried themselves need to work on digging themselves out, as opposed to people who put their house up for a mortgage to try to feed their families.
No, the government shouldn't be "bailing people out", but let's be honest, the country is not in the best of economic situations, and some responsibility does fall on the government for that fact.
So, helping people keep their home is a good idea in my opinion. Don't just fix it and make it all better, but provide some assistance in these cases.
In the cases of people who went ahead and bought two and three houses to try to turn a quick buck, tell them to sell their extra assets and keep themselves afloat.
35or maybe my childhood was just simple and easy. maybe i'm delusional.
36ya'll, Alan Jackson is singing "Little Man" on the radio RIGHT NOW. I'm gonna tear up!
37I could never give up my credit card!!! I get miles!! And with airlines such as Delta increasing their fares, I'm going to need them. But, I will say, I never charge any amount that is not in my b-account.
I too am in agreement with McCain's statements (good points from a man who doesn't "know very much about the economy"
)
38Well I guess I'm the lucky one because my stimulus is all gravy to me.. but I will do like my mama taught me, she made us put away half of our gift money from bdays and holidays and then we could spend the other half.
So half will sit in savings, the other half will most likely go to Sephora or Williams Sonoma.
39NYF I am in your boat too! I put everything on my credit card but I pay it off every month, I get cash back and its super sweet to get like 400 bucks back every year knowing that they don't make a penny off me!
40"Yeah, the credit card industry bullies us into getting a card then rapes our wallets with high interest rates. I guess we really can't blame them though since we're the ones doing the bending over."
Not sure if you are sarcastic or not. Sometimes it is hard to tell on this board. I don't blame the credit companies at all. I do however blame the people who won't control their spending. Up until very recently I have NEVER in my life not paid my credit card in full every month. Then I had an emergency and am carrying debt. It is my debt, not yours or the feds, mine alone. And mine alone to pay off, no matter how much they are raping me on my interest.
And even people with just one house acted irresponsibly. They bought homes they could not afford, with balloon payments, variable interest rates, etc. Now us as tax payers are going to have to bail these people out, and that takes away our money that could go towards stimulating the economy, and lowers the value of the dollar.
So as I said before, I am taking what I can get when it comes to the housing crisis.
41Kris, I agree that Wal Mart did seem better when we were younger. I personally don't really like to shop there, I just dislike it when people proclaim Wal Mart as evil, horrible, and disgusting without looking at the other side of the issue.
42YAY a Hillary free zone! Don't get me wrong I love the girl...but sometimes I get tired from the crusade.
Now to topic...I agree on both ends. I think that credit cards interest rates and hidden fees are insane, but I also agree that people should have some sort of financial responsibility. I had to get rid of them. I kept filling them up. I deal in only debit cards now.
43I get at least one credit card offer a day. Envelope, at least 2 sheets of paper. Credit card companies are killing trees left and right.
I feel for the people losing their homes but its not the governments responsibility to fix a problem that I believe begins with the borrower. But then again with the poor state that our education is in, how can we expect people who don't even graduate high school, how can we expect them to be smart enough to handle their money. Seriously, I see the same people in the payday loan office across the street from where I'm sitting. They go faithfully every month to get an "advance" on their hard earned money. And they think its ok! They even bring their kids who will grow up thinking its ok. Endless cycle.
44Oh, and as for credit cards, I think they are great for people like NY and cabaker, who are able to use them for the rewards. I also think they are good for people like cine, who need them in an emergency. I personally have a few that I don't carry a balance on, but there have been times when I needed them for an emergency or to get me through until my next payday when I was glad I had them. If you aren't in the position to have a large amount in savings, I think credit cards are a great tool to use in emergencies or in between paychecks, especially considering that the alternative for some people is payday loans, which some states are considering making illegal!
45Has anyone seen the documentary Maxed Out? I was excited to see it since it deals with this topic... It did a great job of exposing payday loans, which I had never heard of, but out of an 89 minute run time, not ONE MINUTE was spent on personal responsibility. Basically it blamed Bush and the banks. Nice.
Has anyone read Rich Dad, Poor Dad? Excellent book!
46I did not know that lil (the payday loan part). Do you know why they are considering making it illegal?
47Oh and I have flown all over the place on my credit card points! I also like to track all my spending so I can keep in budget, and among other benefits.
48Cabaker, I don't think I can watch it from your description. It will make me angry, like Michael Moore does, and I am trying to keep my blood pressure down.
49No I wouldn't reccomend it unless you want to ge riled up. It was hard for me to finish. I was just so let down because so much good could have been done with the subject matter.
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