Wait...how can you be a married couple by Catholicism's standards/or have a marriage acknowledged by the Vatican? You both have to go through the Holy Matrimony rite and that means you had to attend a marriage course. Am I missing something? But anyways...

You need to evaluate whether or not religion means more or the love your husband means more. If the religious aspect still bothers you, I would ask him to comprise. He does not have to believe in God/Catholicism but that you'd like him to participate because it means a lot to you.

My parents were of different religions but they were able to come together for a compromise. My dad would come to the big masses like Christmas and Easter; when we pray before a meal, my dad will bow his head, too, and just listen.

Buff, it's hard! I´m Catholic too and I´d like to marry to a person who shares my religious beliefs or at least that tell me openly that he has another belief or lack of it, but anyway respect mine. For me it would definitely a dealbreaker, he lied to you about something that was really important for you. But I have to tell that if it was so important for you, you should have spoken with him about that before marriage.

It´s possible to celebrate a Catholic marriage, if only husband or wife are Catholic, but in that case they commit to bring their children up in the Catholic faith. What I can´t understand is how you didn´t realize he wasn´t baptized, I mean, when you marry religiously (at least in my country) you have to show the certificate of the Catholic baptism or in case you are not baptised, you need a special dispensation for marrying. Otherwise, your marriage is valid but illicit.

Maybe he was baptized, but he wasn´t brought up in Christian Faith.

Like m48225 said, it´s possible to come together to a compromise, but for me the dealbreaker is in the fact that HE LIED TO YOU.

um wow. What I'm not understanding is how this hadn't come up before. This is one of the first serious discussions I had with my boyfriend (we're both non-religious) and in fact it is something that I feel like comes up every now and then through our experiences with other people. I just don't understand how you two could be married and you wouldn't even have suspected that he felt this way. If you didn't have any serious discussions about it beforehand, then it really is partially your fault for this major misunderstanding. But if he lied to you...wow. All I have to say is, give it some time and if you still don't feel comfortable about it, go to counseling. If that doesn't work, you may just have to go your separate ways.

I think your best option would be to talk to him more about it. Don't try to force your religion on him but make sure he's willing to be present when you celebrate. Maybe you can teach him what each of the holidays mean and teach him more about the religion even if he won't practice at least he has some knowledge.
If the only thing that bothers you is the fact that he lied maybe you two need to work on your trust issues and communication. I'd suggest a marriage counselor for that.
Good luck with everything.

I don't really understand how this didn't come up before, you can't really feel betrayed by him if neither of your brought up the subject, marriage is a two way thing. If he just skirted by the subject and it was never really discussed even before the marriage then I don't know how much you can blame him.

I was under the impression that to get married in a Catholic Church you had to be a member of the congregation. Did you not go to meetings with him and your priest before the marriage? Did you go to church? Because if you didn't then it was probably quite obvious that he didn't care that much about religion.

But if he went along with everything and went to church with you every week and never told you that he wasn't really interested, then I agree, you should be upset that he lied to you. You need to talk about it soon, rather than let this carry on. Maybe set out some guidlines and compromises about your religious activites in the future. At least if he is indifferent it's easier to get what you want rather than if you discovered he was an extreme athiest.

when you married him he would have had to produce his certificates of baptism communion and confirmation.otherwise he would have had to complete these to have a marriage between two catholics.yes a catholic can marry a non catholic but it is a different service slightly.they would also have to attend a catholic pre-marriage course and agree that any children from the marriage would be raised catholic,you also both fill in a questionaire and if the diocese feels that you are not suitable for catholic vows then they will not grant you a catholic marriage they leave no stone unturned.
so if he infact lied during all this then you might be granted an anulement,
if you really are a catholic did you not notice him not attending church with you on sunday,i find it hard to figure you out more than him.
maybe he might feel you are just a catholic for holidays and not sincere,he might be the more honest of the two of you.
it is more important that you compromise in marriage and share the same set of values and morals.there are so many people who just go to church for show and are not sincere.just because he does not belong to and organized religion is not so important as is he a good person.

It obviously wasn't an issue when you were dating and engaged. If he really did intend to lie you about his religious beliefs, I'd be less worried about what he worships and more concerned with his deception.

If it is important to you to marry someone who will attend your church regularly and pray daily with you, then make sure that he/she will do those things while you are dating and engaged.

It sounds like you married in haste and are now repenting in liesure. I bet there are all sorts of things you forgot to ask and find out about!

Good luck, but I think you should either go for the annulment now or just drop it and get over your "shock." It's your own fault, own it.

Sorry honey but this doesn't sound right! How come your all of a sudden this prim and proper catholic, AFTER you got married, when it sounds like you two weren't even going to church together? If this means SO MUCH to you how the hell would ANY man get away with this? Wouldn't you have attended services together, prayed together, talked to your priest together? It just seems like you two never really had a discussion about this. All you needed to hear was someone say yeah I'm catholic and you were cool with it regardless of the fact that you never saw him practice it and I bet he never saw YOU practice it either!

He's probably more shocked than you are that now your all of a sudden all into the church and your holidays and religious dinners are so important to you that you never bothered to mention it. Sorry hun but it seems you deceived each other and maybe you deceived yourself. You were so caught up in getting married that you didn't ask the important questions BEFORE you got married and now you want to blame him.

I understand your disappointment but this does not make him any less of a man or any less in love with you. You vowed in front of God to take this man for better or for worse. It's your fault that you didn't take it seriously enough to ask basic questions!

I think we HAVE to be missing some information here because I just can't believe that something that is SO IMPORTANT to you was so overlooked. You couldn't have just based your future on someone saying "yeah I'm Catholic too"! He MUST have been lying and going to church pretending because otherwise I don't get it.

I agree with most of the above. If this issue is/was as important as you claim to be making it now then you should have had a more serious discussion about this before marriage.

This is not a deal breaker, in my opinion, you just need to work it out. You said that you respect other people religious beliefs so why can't you respect his and learn to nurture your marriage and family based on what you mutually agree upon? If he's not really religious maybe he'll be okay with you raising your children the way you want - catholic. But you have to talk about it. Talk, talk, talk!

I made it VERY clear to my catholic-by-birth husband that I would not raise my children in that environment before we got married. It was one of the very first conversations we had when we first started dating. We have agreed to raise our children by my religion but they will also be told about why/how the rest of the family celebrates holidays. I am respectful of his religion around his family (he's not a practicing catholic anyway) and have attended mass for christenings and funerals, etc... I am respectful and very few people realize I am not one of them. It is possible to raise a family in a dual-religious home. Have faith

this is a deal breaker for me.

first, i can't be with someone who has a weak faith in God.

second, even if you accept him and move on in your relationship, i can bet all of my shoes that he will NOT want to raise his kids Catholic. it's gonna be an issue.

i'm thinking that, if you guys did the premarital course, and this didn't come up, that maybe he was playing the game. and THAT is NOT cool.

i see where you figured his practice wasn't as strong because maybe he was born and baptized, but not Orthodox. and that was cool with you.

but apparently, he's one step away from being Agnostic, which isn't cool for you.

i dunno. i'm very sensitive about these things. he'd be done. it's not even about the lie, for me. you made this revelation, and it's not gonna work.

From what you've written, and the fact that tomorrow is Easter, I'm going to go ahead and assume that this fight was more about how you want to spend your holidays than your profound religious beliefs. I noticed you didn't say anything about going to church regularly, practicing catholic idologies, or educating your children in the ways of the church, only that "Saying prayers over dinner and celebrating holidays for their religious significance" has always been an important tradition in your family.

I say level with your boyfriend. Get off the religious high horse (unless you are actually going to church/confession twice a week) because the more you try to get your way with the whole its-my-religion argument, the more he is going to resist. Tell him its a family tradition, and when two people come together in marriage they need to reconcile the traditions of their separate families on holidays. Neither of you can have your way every time, including you. If neither of you are willing to bend on that point, then you have a real problem.

Lets be honest, its a manipulative ploy on both your parts to pretend that your opposing 'religions' are keeping you from finding a compromise. If either of you were religious enough for that argument to carry any weight, you would've found out long before you got married.

I think if it's as hugely important as you're saying, that you should have brought it up well before you got married. Not just the "I'm Catholic" conversation, you should have asked him what being Catholic meant to him, and discussed the details of each of your beliefs well in advance of marriage.

Still, that doesn't help you now. Where you go from here will have to depend on how much you love him and are willing to compromise. My husband and I are of two different religions, we're raising two children together, and it's working out well, so know that it can work for some people. The best thing to do would be to talk to him and figure out where you each would be willing to compromise.

And forgive me if this is ignorant, but I thought that the Catholic faith was very much against divorce. If that's the case, and if you hold to those views, the question wouldn't be whether or not to divorce your husband, but whether or not to have children since you couldn't leave him. I know divorce wasn't mentioned specifically, but "deal breaker" seems to me like it's practically the same thing.

I don't know about you, but I know interfaith relationship that have worked. I'm a Catholic myself and I know at least 2 families in my church whose spouse aren't Catholic (one of them is agnostic/atheist, the other one's spouse is an Episcopalian but she always comes to church with her husband although she doesn't participate in certain tradition).
I'm really good friend with the wife who's very devout and very active in church, I know it used to bother her that her husband doesn't go to church with her unless when she needs him to help her out during a church event she's heading. But since they've been married for like forever, she has come to terms w/ him not going to church because he's very open and easygoing so their children get to go to church, etc and choose for themselves when they're grown up (her children in fact are older than I am).
By the way, my husband is definitely leaning toward agnostic and it's FINE by me, because he's very easygoing about teaching our son religion, etc. And I'll accept too whatever my son wants to believe in as he grows up

So it can be worked out but it is a little confusing why he didn't come clean with you in the beginning. Ask him why he felt the need to mask his true belief, is it shame? Is it fear of rejection? Or what? Confess to him that you felt uncomfortable finding out that he lied. After finding out what's his real reason then maybe you two can work out a compromise, don't feel 'sick' yet due to this, it can be worked out only if you two are open to the idea of compromise.

I´d say that if he really told you that he was Catholic and he wasn´t, it´s a cause of anullment of the Catholic marriage that in some countries have legal -not only religious effects-. So dealbreaker doesn´t have to mean divorce.

My mom is Catholic. My dad is Protestant. My brother seems to be non-denominational Christian. And, my hubby and I are agnostic. We are rather harmonious with one another. Interfaith or lack there of can work because of a simple word called tolerance.

I, like many others here, am bewildered you did not discuss this with your SO in depth before your marriage. How does one who considers her faith so important let the fact that her SO has no clue of what Catholicism or Easter is? It seems to me, you let it slide assuming without actually knowing what his beliefs are i.e. "I figured at least we had similar beliefs." Uh, no, you cannot just assume that. Where was the communication before the marriage? While you were dating did he even celebrate your beliefs with you? Because that would be rather misleading. However, if you never shared those experiences with him prior to marriage, way to go on making false assumptions. You mislead him.

Nevertheless, you are married, now. Obviously, your husband loves you and is tolerant and willing to let you believe as you want to believe. Question is: can you do the same for him?

Was this a shotgun wedding? Do you talk to your husband AT ALL before you were married. I just don't understand how his kind of thing came up after you were married.

Anyway, I agree with the above that this is a case of fraud and would be grounds for an anullment. If your religiosity is that important to you, its not something that you'll be able to live with.

Interfaith relationships are great as long as both parties enter into them with open eyes.

Your religion is NOT that important to you ... or else you would have found out about his true beliefs beforehand. So dont make this molehill into a mountain.

Talk with him...find a compromise.

I don't understand how you didn't know this before you got married. Did you marry in a Catholic church? Like someone has already said above, you would have had to have produced some sort of documentation to prove that you have been baptized and are a member of the church.

I'm guessing this fight came about because you want to attend Easter mass on Sunday.....

I don't really think you had no clue about this until just now. I don't see it.

The only thing I can suggest is that you guys get some counseling. But, you did say in your question that he respects your beliefs but he won't ever participate in them, so good luck with this.

If you decide that there is no way to save this marriage, then you should march straight to your lawyer's office to get some legal advice....

My MIL goes to church every week and is very active, as are her parents. My FIL never goes to church- I know my husband and his brother went when they were younger and were exposed to it and later allowed to make their own choices as to their faith. My husband and I are agnostic and its never been an issue with my in-laws.

It can work, obviously- there are many posters on here saying it works just fine for them- I think you are more bothered that he didnt tell you and now all the happy future family moments you had in your head are kind of crumbling and youre feeling lost.

I think you BOTH need some serious couples counseling and I think you might want to look into some individual spiritual counseling. You cant force your views on him, so if he doent want counseling through the church you have to respect that- I know its sounds strange but some people can feel very strongly about how indifferent they are about religion. It sounds like he is a form of agnostic (which is NOT the same thing as being an atheist) that wikipedia defines as, "Agnostic theism (also called religious agnosticism)—the view of those who do not claim to know existence of God or gods, but still believe in such an existence"

But seriously dude, he claimed to be Catholic and you didnt think it was a little odd that he didnt know why people celebrate Easter? Or anything else that has to do with your religion? How could you assume he has the same beliefs as you when he obviously didnt even know what your beliefs are or where they came from? Just how long did yall date before you got married?

Re-reading the post...it turns out you knew he didnt know what Easter was!!!! And you knew this BEFORE he got married.

But you brushed it off because you had "similar" beliefs! How does that work. Easter is pretty much central to the whole Catholic/Christian faith - so if he didnt understand why Easter was celebrated - why did you not NOTICE THAT?

I have a feeling you are not very religious yourself and you never considered this in a man....uptill now.

I advise you wrap your head around it. Talk and compromise.

I think the issue here is that you're having a change of heart, not him. He was on the fence about Catholicsm before you were married since he never really practiced, and now that you are living together, the differences in your upbringing is showing, and you're thinking, maybe I do want a Catholic husband, someone who is centered in their faith...

From the doubts you have, I think the issue may not be him, but why you are tied down to a certain way of expressing your faith, and whether it's truly based on your personal faith or on your family tradition.

Also, I agree that compromise is key to this situation. As a married couple this is a testament (no pun intented) to the hardships you will face, because over the course of your lives, both of you will change;

and it is up to you to change together.

this sucks. why isn't Sugar posting some good stuff?

No one will ever be everything you want them to be. Obviously before you were married other things were more important to you, so focus on them. I think the real issue is something else, and it sounds like you're in danger of being a little too controlling. Back off and practice your faith how you see fit, but don't expect him to be your twin.

If you ask my other half - he's technically catholic... But he's an athiest..

He was baptized catholic, went to a catholic school.. his parents are catholic...

However he is not

So maybe your husband is in the same boat...

It sounds like that you have grown in your faith since marriage. Now, religion is important in your life.

Guess what? Even the Bible has a say in this. It's not a deal breaker. Check out 1 Peter 3:1

Your religion is NOT that important to you ... or else you would have found out about his true beliefs beforehand. So dont make this molehill into a mountain.

Exactly! his beliefs weren't that important to you until you wanted them to be the same as yours. You weren't betrayed here, you didn't even care to bring it up as a serious discussion!

My question is how could it have not been discussed before you were married?

I am not sure what to say really. Im not married but boyfriend is Methodist and I am Catholic. We both have a respect for each others faith and we discuss it a lot. This and other things are discussed because that is what you do.

I dont want to criticize you and your relationship but it obvious you have communication issues.

I don't get why you are making such a big deal about it, you're supposed to love your husband no matter what, I mean, that is why you guys got married! He's not less of a person because he doesn't share the same beliefs you do! People can change their mind about their religion. What if in the future you raise your kids catholic but they decide to practice another faith? Will you feel deceived as well and disown them??

As long as he treats you with love and respect, you've got nothing to complain about!

A lot of the posters above have been saying " i don't understand how you got married without knowing this...", and i don't think that's very helpful. They're already married, so there isn't much to do about it now

As for the dilema, it sounds like he was catholic/christian to begin with, and then after you got married beliefs changed. If thats the case then i don't think there's much you can do about it, its not like you can force your religion on him. But if you do want to have a family it might be problematic if you're set on sharing the same faith with your children. I'm in an interfaith marriage (i'm christian and my husband is jewish), and while i would love for my husband to convert to christianity and he would love for me to convert to judiasm, we've settled on teaching our children the traditions and beliefs of both religions. I think you should do the same. If you're uncomfortable with raising children with a non catholic/christian (which i can't understand how you would be when you married him KNOWING that he didn't know much about your religion), then maybe this relationship isn't build to last...

I don't understand...how can this be new? If you're sooooooooo Catholic you'd be going to church, saying prayers, doing the holidays the way you've always done them and unless you were together 1 day before you got married than Id assume that he was there with you all those times....unless you're not exactly what you're saying you are either.

Who cares really? You love him. If you have children, you'll talk about that when it comes. MILLIONS of people are raising children who arn't of the same faith yet they get by. Don't push your beliefs on him it's not fair.

Somehow I feel there's alot missing from this story. Is there anyway we could have a Q&A with the poster??...

I must be an outcast here because I think it's fine that he had a change of heart. Maybe he was raised Catholic? but people learn more about themselves all of the time and question the world around him. I would personally be glad he still believes there are gods and isn't atheist. I was also raised Catholic but find myself questioning the thought of other types of after life. It doesn't mean I'm not religious! he should be able to delve into himself and figure out what he believes without feeling obligated to believe what you want him to. I get that you didn't get what you married into but if you really love the guy you'll respect his views. He isn't telling you not to pray and he isn't telling you what to believe.

I personally think that if you end a marriage over something like this you're looking to get out for different reasons. You can lie to yourself all you want but that's the truth. If everything else is otherwise healthy and perfect it doesn't make sense.

crazy that you didn't know his beliefs, or was he misleading you so that you would like him? can you make him participate and be baptized/christened? you might be able to convince him if you say its for the kids, on the other hand you dont want to realize theres no way once you;ve already had kids with him... i can see why this would make you uneasy since it implies that his moral standards and views on marriage could be very different from yours and you dont have any common ground ........... see if he'll join before u start a family is my advice

How religious can you be if you just took an oath in front of God, and now that he's not exactly who you assumed him to be, you want out? It's ok to back out of marriage vows taken before God, but heavan forbid he not want to go to church with you all the time...

Not to be rude or anything ( because I'm Catholic and this isn't a bash against the church's stance or what you believe in, but...) - If you remember, marriage is a vow, for better or worse... and in the eyes of the Church, divorce is wrong.

So, even if you think this is a deal breaker and he told you he doesn't want to participate, you'd be committing a sin against your church for divorcing him because of it.

I just wish you the best of luck. I feel like if you were able to have a good enough relationship without religion entering the picture before you got married, you should be able to continue on the same path. I do not approve of his lie, but it does not sound like it was an active lie (he pretended to say prayers, celebrate holidays, go to church, etc).

Like others, I have a feeling that you're leaving big chunks out of this story. It just doesn't add up. I know a lot of people who were raised with a certain religion but don't really practice - if asked, they'll say, "Oh, I'm X" but only out of family loyalty or habit. How could you not have realized this about the man you were going to MARRY???

Religion obviously wasn't high on your list of priorities if the only conversations you had about it were that superficial. My boyfriend and I aren't religious at all, but even we've had hours-long conversations about metaphysical beliefs and spirituality.

It sounds like you went into this marriage with blinders on. You say you feel betrayed by your husband, but you need to take some of the blame for only seeing what you wanted to see. And now that the fairytale courtship and wedding are over and reality is sinking in, you realized that you've made a big mistake.

But is this really something you'd want to divorce him for? Why is it so important to you that he share the exact same beliefs? Is he a good person? Does he have a kind heart? Being a *decent human being* should matter more than any denominational label.

Maybe it would do you some good to sit back and examine the real reasons why you married him and ask yourself if the pros outweigh the cons. If you're this fuzzy on his religious beliefs, I'm willing to bet there are a lot of other things you missed while you were racing to the altar.

Are you really a committed Catholic? I looked back at other comments and realized that my input is a lot like them. How could this be something new? Did you just date a couple of months before getting married or something? Are you really a strong participating Catholic? If so, and you were together long enough, this would have definitely come up before the wedding. I don't know how Catholic people can even start the process of marriage without the prospect of getting married in a Catholic church. In the area of CA that I live in, you have to take courses, etc. in order to get married in the church. I think this is pretty much everywhere, straight from the Vatican. If you didn't go through the church, then why are you making this such a big deal now? As you know, in the eyes of the Catholic church, you aren't even married under the eyes of the Lord if you aren't married by a Catholic priest. I know these things because I was raised Catholic.

You Can raise a family together without having the same beliefs. I can not understand this. There must be more to this story.

I'm having a hard time with the fact that this just came up, and I doubt he's the sole guilty party in that. It just seems that if religion is so important to you, it would have been more prominent throughout your relationship and this would have been uncovered earlier.

Whether it's a deal-breaker or not is up to you. I think I would have a hard time with someone that was religious because my lack of belief in a god and belief in the importance of not having a religion is a large part of who I am. But that would come up early and regularly in my relationship. The fact that it hadn't become such a big deal earlier to me indicates that it probably isn't a deal breaker. I think you can probably give it a go and as long as he's not mocking you, arguing with you constantly about your belief, preventing you from doing what you please, you can make it work. But it works both ways - you have to not instigate things either, don't be judgmental, don't start arguments. Good luck.

What I find to be funny is how come you two never discussed this before ? I mean, it seems to mean a whole lot to you. So, even if he had lied to you about it, over time, wouldn't have come to realize that maybe your beliefs weren't similar ? Wouldn't you of had some kind of clues ?

I'm a believer and my honey isn't and right from the start I saw some things that led me to confirm that we aren't on the same page belief wise. We respect eachother and he's even coming around to see what I see in religion.

Anyways, I just think that you might not of known him well enough before you decided to get married to the guy.

What I don't understand is, you married this man. If his religious beliefs were such a huge deal and you are so passionate about your religion, I'm not sure why YOU didn't discuss it more in detail at some point? He should feel kind of betrayed also because clearly you didn't explain to him that if he wasn't up to par with his religious beliefs and knowledge you wouldn't love him the same and your feelings about him may change one day.

I just can't see how something that is SUCH a HUGE part of your life and obviously a requirement on your side of what you want in a husband some how slipped past the both of you until after you got married. What did you meet him and marry him two days later? I don't get it.

well. i think the only advice i can give is that you think hard about what kind of Catholic you are. Are you the type that practices it or the type that just says youre catholic and do the special holidays, xmas, etc. but dont go to church, dont go to confessionals.. and base your decisions on that. because im catholic who practices, im not perfect, thats why im practicing... although i have friends who are catholic but dont practice at all... and probably wont teach their children to... thats why i say, the only time its a big deal really if the religion/ spirituality is very close to your heart and is a BIG part of your life.

it says that hes ok with you going to church etc.. was he going with you to church to make you think he was catholic? i know he lied about being catholic.. but were you two doing "catholic practices" together and he was going along with it? then yes he did mislead you.. but if you didn't.. he lied yes.. but how important is being catholic to you that you dont practice it with your partner?

im not sure if that all made sense.. good luck =)

Let's pretend that you did talk about it at length and he skirted the issue. If you know anything about the religion, it's easy to pretend you are part of it. Not knowing about Easter while pretending to be Catholic is a little odd though. And you had inklings of his non-religiousness before your marriage.
Anyways, I do this all the time... I was raised Catholic but am no longer, so with many people I just talk like I still am to avoid drama.. people can be REALLY judgy when you don't believe the same thing as them, so I'm rarely honest about my religion. He should have been honest with you, but I can certainly see why he wouldn't be. Nothing personal, it's just a hassle to always explain how or why you don't believe the same thing as someone else, especially someone you love.

doesn't anyone else think that perhaps he misrepresented himself? i agree that this should have been discussed at some length prior to the marriage if it's that big of an issue but he did say he was catholic and now he's saying he's not. as his wife, i would be wondering just who i married as well. and let's get off of the until death do us part thing. people get divorced for much less and this is a huge issue to disclose once the deed has been done.

doesn't anyone else think that perhaps he misrepresented himself?

Maybe, but there is no way for any of us to know based on what she wrote.

I stand by my assertion that this is not a fight about religious beliefs but how to spend holidays. She defined her religious practices as "Saying prayers over dinner and celebrating holidays for their religious significance." And this fight happens the day before Easter? And we're all wondering how this couldn't have come up earlier if it was so important? It seems pretty obvious to me.

The original post states that as they were preparing for marriage, she realized he didn't know why they celebrated Easter. If you are very much into your religion, you'd be stupid to continue to believe that he was a practicing Catholic. You are just as much to blame for placing the two of you in this position as him. I think the reason you didn't allow yourself to believe this, is because you had the pre marriage blinders on. Why, if you feel this strongly, did you not put a stop to the relationship as soon as you realized he didn't know the reason for celebrating Easter? I'm pretty sure a 5 year old Catholic could probably tell you the reason for Easter. So, for you to continue with the relationship, after discovering he was blowing hot air, places you, atleast, half at fault!